What is the difference between a FE SideOiler, and a FE TopOiler? I thought all FEs were SideOilers, cause the filters and oilpumps are located in the same location on all blocks arent they? Who ever know please give me some insite. Thanx.
Don
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What is the difference between a FE SideOiler, and a FE TopOiler? I thought all FEs were SideOilers, cause the filters and oilpumps are located in the same location on all blocks arent they? Who ever know please give me some insite. Thanx.
Don
The sideoilers were 65 and later 427's only and bring oil to the mains first then moves on to the rest. Topoilers bring oil to the cam first then rockers and mains (and lifters if a hyd block) thus the topoiler. All FE engines other than the 427 sideoiler are topoilers. Even the early 427's are topoilers. There were also the marine 427 blocks that were cast as sideoilers but machined for topoiling. There is lots more but this is the basic idea. G.
Oh forgot to mention the sideoiling concept was first used on the Ford Y block engines. This was later adapted to the 427's for better durabllity and endurance on the NASCAR circut. The sideoiler block was developed for the 427 SOHC cammer which was later banned by NASCAR. To fast for the HEMI's.... LOL.
G.
Thanks, FFR428. Now coud you tell me the differences between the 427 and 428 FEs and why Ford made 2 different size FE motors 1 Cubic inch different. Thanx again.
Don
The 427 had a 4.23 bore and a 3.78 stroke. The 428 a 4.13 bore and 3.98 stroke. The 427 was Fords all out engine and was expensive to machine and build. Plus warranty problems being most were raced. They looked for a cheaper alternative and still have a good performing engine. This is where the 428 came into play. The 427's bottom end was crossbolted and 65 and later (except 68) used forged steel cranks and rods. These were expensive to use plus the blocks much more time consuming to machine. As we know time is money. Ford wanted a cheaper performance engine for street use. The 428 was the choice and first came out in 66. The larger stroke gave boatloads of torque with HP at an average 345-360 in stock trim and close to 400 in Cobra Jet and Super Cobra jet applications. The smaller bore 428 blocks were easier to cast and machine plus they were all 2 bolt main blocks unlike the crossbolted main 427. Plus the 428 was about half the cost of the 427 to produce. Ford first used the 4.13 bore in the 406 engine. The 406 had a 4.13 bore and 3.78 stroke. The 406 was the precurser to the 427. Sort of a tweener if you will and only produced for 1 year 62 1/2 to 63 1/2. Listed at 385 hp with a 1x4 and 405 with a 3x2. If you want to do some 428 reading check out www.428cobrajet.org By far the best 428 site online. I could go on but will spare you my endless babble. LOL.
G.
No worries about the babble. All that matters to me is Im learning about what I want and you are the one helping me so I dont mind at all.
I was wondering about the 410 FE. I konw it was a 390 block with 428 crank, but was it just basically a Mercury motor or what?
Thanx again, I really do appreciate it,
Don
Yep the 410 was a Merc only engine 66-67.
Have you ever heard of the 370 ford motor, i dont know if its an FE, and what about the 361 and 391 motors
How about reading casting numbers. I know how to read the first 4 characters, but i dont know about the 5th character.
C4AEA from a crankshaft, according to a decode sheet i found this is a cast num of a 1964 ford full size/galaxie engine part number but other than that how do you tell what engine size and if that is the correct vehicle. any assisstance?
Don
The 370 does not ring a bell. The 361 and 391 were both FT (Ford truck) series engines. They both had the same cyl bore of 4.05 but the 361 a 3.50 crank stroke like the 352 and the 391 a 3.79 just a hair more than the 390 and 427. Both engines had forged steel cranks. As far as casting and Ford part numbers there are lots of online and available reading material that fully covers these. Also a master parts catalog available on CD. A very good book to have is the Steve Christ "How to rebuild big block Ford engines" This book covers rebuilding, part ID, different FE engines in general and has a section of the more common blocks, heads, cranks , rods etc...with numbers, years and application. Also block bore sizes, crank sizes, valve sizes, it goes on.... In the mean time I'll look for a few sites. Here is one www.woodyg.com scroll down to the FE big block section. You can take it from there.
G.
the 370 was a 385 series engine. little brother to the 429-460
The 428 with smaller bore and longer stroke was a better smog combination, as well as all the other points mentioned. I've torn down a number of pickup truck "390's" from the early '70's that were 410's. Ford must have had a bunch left over so they sent 'em up to Canada to use them up. Our smog regs were less strict at the time.
The side oiler was designed for racing, it plumbs oil directly to the crank via a passage molded into the casting's left side, hence the name side oiler. The center oiler or top oiler was a traditional FE design which first oiled the cam and lifters and then the crank. As the pre 1968 side oilers were all solid lifter engines oiling the lifters wasn't needed.
The side oiler was specifically a redesigned FE block for the 427 SOHC or cammer. It was also able to accept any FE heads previously made. In addition to the cammer heads, Medium, High Rise, and Tunnel Port heads were employed to try to get an edge in Grand National (Winston Cup) competition.
The side oiler in addition to the side oiling configuration also were built on a separate assembly line using a hig nickle alloy and tighter tolerances than their FE cousins. They all had screw in freeze plugs and in 1966 were cast with a squared off cylinder mold for greater strength. The side oilers were also 70 pounds heavier than other FE blocks.
I have an FE casting number guide in my photo gallery.
428's were great motors, but they their 2 bolt main caps and standard oiling systems were not up to Grand National competition standards. If you do the math the 4.2325" x 3.7800" dimensions of the 427 actually net you about 425 cubic inches... Go figure.
As a side note. Most "427" Shelby Cobra's had 428's in them... The 428 was $900 cheaper than the 427 in 1967. Seems cheap today, but back then it was a small fortune.
a 390 block which has a 4.05" bore and a 3.98" stroke netted you 406 cubic inches. The 406 was made in 1962 (one year only) It also had cross bolted mains. 406's and 427's also had additional reinforced webbing in the crank saddles, as did the 390 GT engines of that era, these engines were essentially 427 castings bored to 4.05". The C3AE 390's are probably the best kept secret in the FE line with their high nickle content, reinforced crank saddles, thicker cylinder walls and cast but not drilled cross bolt main bosses. The casting number C3AE appears on both 390 and 427 engines in 1963-1964.
Denny, you want to handle this one or should I?Quote:
Originally posted by 1cobra1
a 390 block which has a 4.05" bore and a 3.98" stroke netted you 406 cubic inches. The 406 was made in 1962 (one year only) It also had cross bolted mains.
Oh, what the heck. The 406 had a 4.13" bore and a 3.78 stroke and was made from 62 1/2 to 63 1/2. the 427 replace it as the top of the line.
An FE with 4.05" bore and a 3.98" stroke is the 410 used in the Mercs and as R Pope said, he has found a few in 70's Ford pickups.
You're quite welcomed, Denny.
Also of interest, according to Pat Ganahl,s "Ford Performance" book (S-A Design publishing Company copyright 1979), the early 406's weren't cross bolted. It only came about because of warantee problems with them. The last half of year of production saw the advent of the cross bolted main caps.
Doh... What can I say it's the 4th of July, I started drinking early... I was thinking about the question about the 410...
Of course the 406 was 4.13".... You can still often take the 390's C3AE high nickle alloy casting out to 4.13 and beyond. And for a $300 block have a serious runner. (these blocks are more like $750 here on the west coast).
I've never seen a 406 made after December 1962. I'm sure you guys are old enough to remember that far back, so who am I to say... 1962 1/2 - 1963 1/2 still equals one year of production.
C4TE-C
'64 - '77/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck
C4TE-F
'64 - '77/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck
C6ME
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck
C6ME-A
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck
C7ME-A
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck
D3TE
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-1
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-BA
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-BC
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D4TE
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-1
'??/ 330MD c.i.d.
Medium Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
C4AE-A
'64 - 78/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Has Bosses For Cross Bolted Mains Partially Cast From 427 Molds, Reinforcement Webs
C4TE-A
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
C4TE-G
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
C5AE-A
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck
C6ME
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck
C6ME-A
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck
C7ME
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck
C8ME
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck
D3TE
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-1
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-BA
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-BC
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D4TE
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-1
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-BC
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck, Reinforcement Webs
D7TE-GA
'??/ 330HD c.i.d.
Heavy Duty Truck
EDC
'58/ 332 c.i.d.
Solid Lifters, 2 core plugs at front of block, 4 in rear, and 3 on each side.
575063
'58/ 332 c.i.d.
Hydraulic Lifters
5751091
'58 & '59/ 332 c.i.d.
B9AE-B
'59/ 332 c.i.d.
EDC
'58/ 352 c.i.d.
Solid Lifters, 2 core plugs at front of block, 4 in rear, and 3 on each side.
5750603
'58/ 352 c.i.d.
Hydraulic Lifters
5751091
'58 & '59/ 352 c.i.d.
B9AE-B
'59 & '60/ 352 c.i.d.
EDC-B
'60/ 352 c.i.d.
High Performance
EDC-C
'60/ 352 c.i.d.
High Performance
C1AE-G
'61 & '62/ 352 c.i.d.
C3AE-A
'63/ 352 c.i.d.
C3AE-F
'63/ 352 c.i.d.
C3AE-G
'64/ 352 c.i.d.
C4AE-A
'64/ 352 c.i.d.
C5AE-C
'65/ 352 c.i.d.
C6ME-A
'66 & '67/ 352 c.i.d.
C6TE-C
'66/ 352 c.i.d.
C6TE-L
'66/ 352 c.i.d.
C7AE
'67/ 352 c.i.d.
C4AE-A
'64 - '78/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Has Bosses For Cross Bolted Mains Partially Cast From 427 Molds, Reinforcement Webs
C4AE
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
C4TE-B
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
C4TE-D
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
C6ME
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
C6ME-A
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
C7ME
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
C8ME
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D1TE-AA
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D2TE-C
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D3TE
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-1
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-EA
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-EB
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-EC
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D4TE
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-1
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-BC
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-CC
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D7TE
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D7TE-AC
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
D7TE-DC
'??/ 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
C3AE
'??/ 360 c.i.d.
C6ME
'68 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
C6ME-A
'68 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
C8AE-A
'68 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
C8AE-C
'68 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
C8AE-E
'68 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
D3TE
'73 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-1
'73 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
Some Have "SPECIAL" Cast Below Number
D3TE-AC
'73 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-HA
'??/ 360 c.i.d.
D4TE-AC
'74 - '76/ 360 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D7TE-BA
'??/ 360 c.i.d.
Service Block
EDC
'58/ 361 c.i.d.
EDC
'59/ 361 c.i.d.
C1AE-C
'61 & '62/ 390 c.i.d.
C1AE-G
'61 & '62/ 390 c.i.d.
C1AE-V
'61/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BC
'62/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BE
'62/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BR
'62/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-BS
'62/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2SE
'62/ 390 c.i.d.
C3AE-AY
'65/ 390 c.i.d.
C3AE-KY
'63/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters
C3ME-B
'63/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters
C3SE-A
'63/ 390 c.i.d.
C4AE-D
'64/ 390 c.i.d.
C4AE-F
'64/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters
C4ME-F
'64/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance
C5AE-A
'65/ 390 c.i.d.
C5AE-B
'65/ 390 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, High Performance, Solid Lifters
C6ME
'66 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
C6ME-A
'??/ 390 c.i.d.
C8AE-A
'68 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
C8AE-C
'68 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
C8AE-E
'68 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
D3TE
'73 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-1
'73 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
Some Have "SPECIAL" Cast Below Number
D3TE-AE
'73 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D3TE-HA
'73 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D4TE-AC
'74 - '76/ 390 c.i.d.
Reinforcement Webs
D7TE-BA
'??/ 390 c.i.d.
Service Block
C2AE-J
'62/ 406 c.i.d.
Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C2AE-K
'??/ 406 c.i.d.
C2AE-V
'??/ 406 c.i.d.
C2AE-BD
'62 & '63/ 406 c.i.d.
Cross Bolted Mains, Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C3AE-D
'63/ 406 c.i.d.
Has Bosses But No Cross Bolts
C3AE-V
'63/ 406 c.i.d.
Solid Lifters, Oil Pressure Relief Valve At Rear Of Block
C6ME
'66 & '67/ 410 c.i.d.
C6ME-A
'66 & '67/ 410 c.i.d.
C3AE-AB
'63/ 427 c.i.d.
Top Oilier
C3AE-M
'63/ 427 c.i.d.
Top Oilier
C3AE-Z
'65/ 427 c.i.d.
Top Oilier
C4AE
'64/ 427 c.i.d.
Top Oilier
C4AE-A
'64/ 427 c.i.d.
Top Oilier
C5AE-A
'65/ 427 c.i.d.
Top Oilier
C5AE-E
'65/ 427 c.i.d.
Top Oilier
C5AE-D
'65/ 427 c.i.d.
Side Oilier
C5AE-H
'65 & '66/ 427 c.i.d.
To 12-9-65, Side Oilier
C5JE-D
'66/ 427 c.i.d.
Irrigation
C6AE-B
'65 & '66/ 427 c.i.d.
To 12-9-65, Side Oilier
C6AE-C
'65 & '66/ 427 c.i.d.
Side Oilier
C6AE-D
'66 & '67/ 427 c.i.d.
Side Oilier
C6JE-B
'66/ 427 c.i.d.
Marine
C7AE-A
'67/ 427 c.i.d.
Side Oilier
C7AE-A
'68/ 427 c.i.d.
Marine
C7AE-J
'68/ 427 c.i.d.
Irrigation
C7JE-A
'67/ 427 c.i.d.
Marine
C7JE-E
'67/ 427 c.i.d.
Industrial Engine
C8AE-A
'68/ 427 c.i.d.
Hydraulic Lifters, Side Oilier
C8AE-B
'68/ 427 c.i.d.
Hydraulic Lifters, Side Oilier
C8AE-H
'68/ 427 c.i.d.
Hydraulic Lifters, Side Oilier
5AE-D
'65/ 427 c.i.d.
Side Oilier
6AE-C
'65 & '66/ 427 c.i.d.
Side Oilier
C6AE-A
'66 & '67/ 428 c.i.d.
C6AE-B
'66/ 428 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, Solid Lifters
C6AE-F
'66/ 428 c.i.d.
Police Interceptor, Solid Lifters
C6ME
'66 - '70/ 428 c.i.d.
C6ME-A
'66 - '70/ 428 c.i.d.
428-4V, Police Interceptor, May Or May Not Be Drilled For Hydraulic Lifters… Look For Oil Galleries
C7ME
'66 - '70/ 428 c.i.d.
C7ME-A
'67 - '70/ 428 c.i.d.
428-4V, Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet
C7ME-C
'67/ 428 c.i.d.
428-4V, Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet
C8ME
'68 - '70/ 428 c.i.d.
Hey guys thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.
Hey FFR428 were you talking about this book? I just bought me a copy bout 2 weeks ago, i figure it should help me out alot.
Don
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books
I have a C3AE-D 406 block with a Sept 20th 1962 date code. It has the bosses or knorbs for crossbolts but are undrilled and has 2 bolt maincaps.
Don yes that's the book. It should provide some good reading overall insight.
As far as taking any FE to beyond it's natural bore limits it all depends on what wallcore molds were used in that paticular block. Most were by the book but there were exceptions and lots of them. Coreshift is always a factor and sometimes the reason for a thicker than normal cyl wall. Say a 428 block with coreshift was unable to hold a true 4.13 bore. It was checked for a smaller useable bore and then machined to that paticular application. This was far more productive than sending a block back to be melted down or used as ice cubes to cool down the molten iron to the correct temperature before pouring the castings. Also how quickly the mixture was poured was critical. To fast and it collapsed the sand molded wall cores. This was a problem that plagued the 427 casting process the most but oveflowed to the 428 and 390's as well. Hope everyone had a nice holiday weekend!
G.
Denny, the 383, 430 and 462 aren't FE's. They're MEL's. Designed for lincoln, mercury and edsel. Actually a total different engine, although the flywheel and bellhousing from an FE will bolt right to them. I know as I put a B/W T-85 with OD from a 58 Ford 352 Interceptor in my 59 Merc with a 383 back in 64.
I kinda figured your trolling for some wise acker to come back with weird figures. I always like your sense of humor Denny.:) :) :LOL:
Yep, used a Lakewood scattershield for a FE on the back of a 430 to mount a toploader.Quote:
Originally posted by Oldf100fordman
Denny, the 383, 430 and 462 aren't FE's. They're MEL's. Designed for lincoln, mercury and edsel. Actually a total different engine, although the flywheel and bellhousing from an FE will bolt right to them. I know as I put a B/W T-85 with OD from a 58 Ford 352 Interceptor in my 59 Merc with a 383 back in 64.
Duane nice catch on the MEL series. I'm not that familer with the MEL or 385 series myself.
G.
Oops. posted in wrong thread. sorry