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Hey gang - just picked up a 55 Ford 2dr post that reportedly has a 1960 352 HP Engine in it. I cleaned up the engine bay and was able to locate the cylinder head ID - C1AE-6090-A. Haven't found the block ID yet. Anyone help me figuring out just what heads I have and where to find (and eventually decode) the block casting?
Thanks,
Chris
Those are 61-63 352/390 heads with 71.2-74.2 cc chambers. Sorry they are not the 352HP heads. Those would be COAE-6090-D and have tiny 59.7-62.1 cc chambers.
G.
Well I searched high and low and I couldn't find a casting # on the block nor the intake. I scraped and felt with my fingers all around the oil filter and again came up empty handed. It'll have to wait until I pull the engine/trans I guess.
Till then...
Chris
If the block has the early style 2 bolt motor mounts the casting number will be on the right side of the block behind the generator. There are some later blocks that have no casting number. In mid 68 there were a bunch and also the service replacement blocks from the 70's. The service blocks have vertical ribs on both sides. All blocks have a date code. The early blocks till 64 have them above the oil filter mounting pad and the later below the oil filter adapter pad. Once the engine is removed it will be easier to see. G.
Can you share any pictures of what the date code locations and date codes themselves look like? I'm still searching the engine (still in the vehicle) trying to locate it, but it's covered in black oily smudge and low light isn't helping.
Chris
Chris send me a pm or email with your email addy and I'll forward what I can. Layers of paint and grime hide a lot. My block is a 63 block so the date code is above the oil filter. As I mentioned above later blocks had them below the oil filter. This site will have a pic of the later date code location www.428cobrajet.org click on component id then blocks. The date codes locations are the same for any displacement FE engine. Pics of the casting number locations there also.
G.
Chris, pics on the way...................................................
G.
Nope your email bounced back to me. I'll try again. G.
Should be good this time. Nothing came back. G.
Yep, got them last night. Took a good look at them - but couldn't tell where the casting # is on the intake manifold. I saw the casting and date codes for the heads, have an idea where the casting # is for the block (the code I found on the block I believe is the date code as it's stamped or punched into a machined flat surface just above the oil filter), but couldn't pinpoint a location for the intake.
Thanks for sending those pics btw, it's helping!
Chris
Some early aluminum intakes just don't have a casting number. That tripower intake in the pics I sent does not have one either. Just the firing order and the fomoco logo. Some have the date code by the thermostat outlet but mine did not. Iron intakes seem to be well marked for some reason. Well glad the pics helped out. Let me know if you need any better ones. These were some I had already but can take a purpose specific area if needed. G.
Some of the early FE heads had machined combustion chambers. Those need to have the sparkplug threads ground off below the sparkplug. bust out the center of an old plug , screw it in and grind and blend in a flame travel path, also around the exhaust valve area needs a little grinding to smooth it out. the early heads had smaller valves but with proper rework they still had a pretty good compression ratio. compare valve sizes to a sbc the FE can be made to work, match ports, polish the bores. polish the valves , venturi, and booster in the carb, good headers. Isky had 1.5 to 1 rockers in a kit that required his cam, pushrods springs etc that made a lot of horse power and RPM. You probably need to rework your heads for unleaded gas, hardened seats and guides, mabe valves. nothing sounds better than a ported and polished FE. Carrol Miller used to use a strobe lite (variable flash) to watch his valve gear.he ran the cam and valve train in a dummy block using a variable speed electric motor with oil feed to the heads. watched for flutter, harmonic vibrations, balanced all the valve train, He used to make fords go fast at bonneville.
Tim can you tell me more about the cam in that Isky kit? Would you happen to know the specs? The Crane rockers I have run about the same ratio. I'm embarrased to say I ran these for years not knowing they were in the 1.52+ zone compared to the oem 1.76. With this now in mind was wondering what Isky did to compensate for the rocker ratio difference? Thanks for your input on this......G.
The story goes that Isky bought a used cam grinder and coppied the profile at the valve from an old indy engine to do the same for a ford flat head. I went to a milder engine in my T bucket, am now running a hyd Mustang gt cam. It works for pump gas but just doesn't sound right. The old isky sounded like a fuel dragster , 3 carter wcd carbs, same flow as 7 stromberg 97's , . a 2 inch tube lake style headers.. I think the cam was about 315 and a 520 lift. Isky's theory was that a 1.5 rocker has less rotational mass and the cam has more bump to compensate for it but it can accelerate the valve opening speed so they get open sooner, more area below the curve so it will breathe better and have more low end torque yet be able to rev higher. the same theory for the factory roller cams today. the previous engine in the t bucket was a 300 horse 390 with the 3 2's, isky and headers. It would always heat up. it only had about 30 k miles on it I traded off the long block and the guy tore it down and said one head gasket was on backwards so the water only was pumped in the front clyinders, he put it back together with a 4 barrel and into a 64 mercury and said it would rev forever. then the car was in a tow yard and i should have bought the engine out of it. I bought a ford van out of the company motor pool the repair history only showed oil changes but it never ran right(460) At 90 k miles i pulled the motor and found parts of a rod bearing in the pan. So much for the company( ford) employee discount car buying plan. It was the only one I kept that long nornally I usuallybought one from the motor pool at 6 month to a year old, drove it for a year then sold them at my original cost.
Tim excellent info and thank you very much!! This also explains alot to me. I've had good results with the 1.5 rockers in the past. I was pooped on a few times by guys telling me you lose lift which I fully understand. But also said lack of performance which I've found not to be true. If anything more as you described. The engine had never run better. Thank you for the fresh perspective on this! You have taught me quite a bit! G.
G,
I was able to work on my ride this afternoon and got some more details for ya - if you don't mind.
Under the valve covers..
right side = 1A10
left side = 1C3
Recall the heads are both say C1AE-6090-A on the outside.
Now, the carb is an Autolite and it's tag reads..
C70F AA 6Gc
The intake is factory, and on the front reads..
5751087 : EB8
(there's also an L, an H and a 3 in the same area)
Now, the engine - I removed the generator and recorded..
C1AE 8015C (it could also read C7AE 6015C - hard to tell)
1C1:4
44
I have pictures of all these if you're interested in seeing them.
What story are these #'s telling?
Chris
Chris the C1AE-C block is a 390 with a 61/March/1st, 4th shift date code. Yes it's a 61 block. The heads are date codes 61/Jan/10th and 61/March/3rd and are 61-63 352/390 heads. The intake is OLD. Like a 58 casting. I'll have to dig up some info on that. The carb sounds like a 67 GT 390 carb but will have to check that also. I'll see what I can find for ya! G.
Hey wow, that's awesome! The carb is real rough - if it is one from a 390GT, is it worth re-conditioning and rebuilding, or would I be better off with an off-the-shelf unit from holley or demon or whatever?
I can't wait to see what you come up with on the intake...
What kinda specs did the factory show for this engine?
Chris
G,
I did some research this morning, looks like I have the Holley 4150 Carb. I'm going to run to the shop this morning to pull more #'s off of it now that I know where to look. Still wondering about that intake - shouldn't have this engine come with a 4bbl intake to begin with? Don't know why they'd swap out for a 58 model - if that's truly what I have. Looking forward to hearing from you!
Chris
Yep thats a 58 361 Edsel intake. The 58 361 had something like 300hp and 400 ft lbs tq. Also 10.5:1 comp. I'm not sure why they would use it either. Maybe they had nothing else to use at the time. Strange choice for sure! Are you looking to replace it? G.
I don't know..should I? Is it worth keeping? Would I be better off with a different factory intake (I plan to keep the factory heads). Also, I have a 4150 Holley carb - worth while getting restored/rebuilt for a mildy built 390? I would like to aim for 300+ hp and 300+ ft lbs of torq at the wheels...Quote:
Originally posted by FFR428
Yep thats a 58 361 Edsel intake. The 58 361 had something like 300hp and 400 ft lbs tq. Also 10.5:1 comp. I'm not sure why they would use it either. Maybe they had nothing else to use at the time. Strange choice for sure! Are you looking to replace it? G.
BTW, The HOLLEY carb #'s are...
C70F-9510-A
LIST-3793
673
Looks like a 4150 to me...
The factory switched back and forth offering four barrel then two barrel then four barrel manifolds year to year They couldn't make up their mind on what to run with each engine each year, sometimes they made a mid year change, although it is not always in the parts books. like in the california factories we would have a snow storm in the rockies and the parts train wouldn't get there on time so the LA and San Jose factories used to do a lot of mix and match. The real problem with the intake manifold is it weighs a ton .. It's almost a hernia trying to put in on by yourself. Cherry picker or almost chain hoist time. you have to check any used aluminum manifolds to make sure they won't leak coolant into the oil if you use the ford design carb they usually need to have the venturi and bore polished . a lot had die pattern shift and that can upset the designed air flow with the mismatch. once set up right I liked them better than the holly. Ford also put on a carter afb. they put out the most horsepower but the rebuild kit directions don't work,, You have to make sure the choke unloader works and that the linkage lets the back barrels fully open. and that the choke lock out of the back barrels functions and lets the back kick in when the choke is off. a mechanical link to override the vacuum when you push it to the floor is nice if you know when not to use it .
I really can't say good or bad about that intake having never run one. The problem is besides the factory lowriser intakes there were just not alot of aftermarket performance lowriser intakes made. I think Offy had one. The Ford aluminum lowrisers are fetching good money. $400 is around the norm for a nice one. If your on a tight budget try it and see how it runs. Has it been port matched to the heads or anything? G.
G,
I haven't opened it up but would assume no port matching has been done. When the time comes to rebuild it, I'll certainly look for your input as the FE is something new to me. I'm going to focus on my cars suspension, brakes, steering and electrical system before diving into the engine/trans. It all fits nicely and I am on a budget so I'll probably use it as is first. Port match it as you mentioned and then go from there. Alot depends on the condition of the inards too so we'll see...
Any ideas on the carb? Thanks for all the help.
Chris