FE Block Identification

What is the best way to ID a specific FE motor size. I have a situation, I have a chance to buy a 72 F-250 that has a good running FE block in it. On the drivers side front of the block is stamped 352. However, the old man that is selling it swears that it is a 390 and says that Ford used original 352 blocks and brought them up to 390 specs. Has anybody else ever heard of this? I want to stick this in my 67 Fastback and if it is indeed a 390 it will be a slam dunk purchase. I appreciate the help.

The "352" cast on the front of the block was common to all FE's from the mid 1960's until the end of production in 1975. It's most likely a D2 block if it's original to the truck, making it either a 360 or 390. These will both have the same bore, but different reciprocating assemblies.

If the heads are off, measure the bore and stroke.

4.05 bore x 3.50 stroke = 360
4.05 bore x 3.75 stroke = 390
4.13 bore x 3.98 stroke = 428

As far as I know, the 428 was never sold in light trucks. Typically you would get a 352 in the early/mid 60's, 360's and 390's from 1967-1975.

Reading Casting NumbersReading Casting Numbers
Casting numbers tell when a part was ORIGINALLY designed and what car it was
ORIGINALLY designed for. This does not mean that the part was not used on other
cars. For example, casting number C8OE-9430-D is an exhaust manifold for a 428
CJ Fairlane; however, it was also used on 428 CJ Mustangs.
Example:
The breakdown of casting number C8OE-9430-D is easy using the charts below:
C = Decade of 1960
8 = Year of the decade (8th year of 1960), 1968
O = Fairlane Car line / Manufacture code
E = Engine engineering department
9430 = Basic number for an exhaust manifold
N = Design change
Casting Number Breakdown Charts
Decade of Manufacture:
A = 1940
B = 1950
C = 1960
D = 1970
E = 1980
Year of Decade
The year of the decade is determined by adding a number (0-9) to the letter of
the decade. Example: C6 would be 1966, D0 would be 1970, D1 would be 1971.
Car Line/ Manufacture Codes
A = Galaxie
D = Falcon (60-69)
F = Outside USA, Trans Am racing
G = Comet / Montego
J = Industrial
M = Mercury
O = Fairlane / Torino
P = Autolite / Motorcraft
R = Rotunda
S = Thunderbird
T = Truck
V = Lincoln (61 - current)
Z = Mustang
Engineering Departments
A = Chassis
B = Body
E = Engine
F = Engine accessories
J = Autolite (67-72)
P = Automatic transmission
R = Manual transmission
W = Axle
X = Muscle parts program
Y = Lincoln / Mercury service parts
Z = Ford service parts
Basic Number
These identify the part, such as 6090 being a cylinder head or 9430 being an
exhaust manifold.
Design Change
A Basic part is made to fit many applications. Example:
DOZZ-7528-C is a clutch bar for a 390/428
DOZZ-7528-D is a clutch bar for a 351 W
DOZZ-7529-E is a clutch bar for a 302 Boss
Reading Casting Dates
Casting dates:
Casting dates show the exact day, month and year a certain part was made or
cast. The typical casting date looks like "6M08".
Breaking down a casting date:
6 = The year of the decade. "6" for 1976.
M = The letter of the month. (December)
08 = The day of the month. (8th)
First year month codes:
ABCDEFGHIJKLM
JanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugN/ASepOctNovDec

Second year month codes:
NOPQRSTUVWXYZ
JanN/AFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec

How do casting numbers appear?
Most casting numbers are stamped into the part itself, other have the number
molded on the part. Some casting numbers can be ink stamped while others are
printed on paper, which is then wraped around the part.
FE Casting Numbers
Blocks (C1AE8015C)
390 cid
C1AE-CC1AE-GC1AE-VC2AE-BC
C2AE-BEC2AE-BRC2AE-BSC2SE
C3SE-AC3AE-KYC3ME-BC3AE-AY
C4AE-DC4AE-FC5AE-AC5AE-B
C6MEC6ME-AC8AE-AC8AE-C
C8AE-ED3TE-1D3TE-ACD3TE-HA
D4TE-ACD7TE-BA

406 cid
C2AE-JC2AE-KC2AE-VC2AE-BD
C3AE-DC3AE-V

427 cid
C3AE-MC3AE-ABC3AE-ZC4AE
C4AE-AC5AE-AC5AE-EC5AE-D
C5AE-HC6AE-BC5JE-DC6JE-B
C6AE-CC6AE-DC7AE-AC7JE-A
C8AE-AC8AE-BC8AE-H

428 cid
C6AE-AC6AE-BC6AE-FC6ME
C6ME-AC7MEC7ME-AC8ME

Crankshafts
390 cid [3.78" stroke]
2UC3AE-DC4TE-6303-B
3UC3AE-EC4TZ-A
C1AEC3AE-UC4TZ-B
C1AE-AC3AZC6AE-A
C2AE-BC4AE-BC6TE-6303-C
C2AE-DC4AE-CC6TE-6303-E
C3AEC4AE-DD2TE-6303EA
C3AE-6303-EC4AE-A
C3AE-BC4AZ-A
C3AE-CC4AZ-J

406 cid [3.78" stroke]
2UC3AE-BC4AE-C
3UC3AE-CC4AE-D
C1AEC3AE-DC4AE-A
C1AE-AC3AE-EC4AZ-A
C2AE-BC3AE-UC4AZ-J
C2AE-DC3AZC4AZ-J
C3AEC4AE-BC4TZ-A
C3AE-6303-E C4TZ-B

410 cid [3.98" stroke]
1VAC8ME-AC9ZE-CIU
C6MEC9ZE-BC9ZE-DIUB

427 cid [3.78" stroke]
2UC3AE-BC4AE-C
3UC3AE-CC4AE-D
C1AEC3AE-DC4AE-A
C1AE-AC3AE-EC4AZ-A
C2AE-BC3AE-UC4AZ-J
C2AE-DC3AZC4AZ-J
C3AEC4AE-BC4TZ-A
C3AE-6303-E C4TZ-B

428 cid [3.98" stroke]
1VAC8ME-AC9ZE-CIUC2VE
C6MEC9ZE-BC9ZE-DIUBC6ME

Hope this helps......viking

hello; from 68 on all ford pick-ups used the 360 with a 2bbl carb. you could have ordered one with the opptional 390 with a 4 bbl. if it does't have a 4 bbl, it's not a 390 unless it's been changed. because it's to hard to tell just by looking, everyone tells you it's a 390 so you'll buy it. it's just like every small block chevy is a 350 4 bolt main untill you check the numbers, and then they still swear it's a 350 4 bolt main. sorry but there's not many honest people out there today. hope this helps. wayne.

Hello there everyone.. I am a new comer to this forum and site. Just registered. I have a 67 ford 1/2 ton 2w with a quote
un- quote 390. I have been wondering why the block and heads and intake have a reddish orange color instead of blue???
I have heards several reasons, I am wondering if it means anything special.. Please help. I have a decent size project underway

the truck needs a rear main seal so while the engine is out I will put in new rod and main bearings... also new timing chain, possiblly timing gears if needed and new oil pump... any other thoughts.

Unfortunately in this day and age of swapping motors and painting them who knows what colors, you can never tell. But you're right, 390's were blue and 352 were black. Not sure on 360 colors. For all those guys out there helping me with my part number issues, I just finally put a barrel mic on my engine and found out that I do indeed have a 428! I checked the bore several times to make sure I was right. It will fit nicely in my 64 Gal! But now I'm going to have to do something about the tired old 3 in a tree that I have. Oh well, I'm sure the wife won't mind the extra few grand:confused: :HMMM: :LOL:

An easy and fairly painless method of checking the stroke ia as follows.....pull out one of the spark plugs. Then turn over the engine till you reach TDC. Then stick a pencil or lenght of round wood dowel or someting similar and turn over (by hand) the engine till the piston is at the lowest point of stroke. Then note the length and measure. 3.5 for the 360 3.8 390 4.0 for the 428 etc... this will give you a fairly accurate reading of the stroke of the engine for you to determine what it is. Sure it's possible it's been a rebuilt 360 with a 390 crank but if the guy does not want you to remove the head to determine the bore this might help you. As others mentioned it could host any array of parts or be stock so be sure what your looking at and use the info Viking posted to help. It's easy once you know what to look for and where. The casting numbers tell all...............G.

I have an fe block coded: C3
352
anyone know what this means

Mtnman, Welcome! From 59 till 65 FE engines were painted black. Aircleaners and valve covers were red, green, blue and gold through the years. Starting in 66 engines were dark blue then 69 and on a lighter blue. I think some early (pre 58) truck engines might have been red as I remember. Anyone could have painted them any color. As far as it meaning anything special? Don't know but depending on what heads and intake they might be something nice.

Kapp, Welcome also! Your C3 block is a 63. Post the entire casting number and we will tell you what it is. C3AE-6015-? with the last letter after the 6015 as the indentifier. 63 still had normal casting numbers and not generic like the later years. 352 was on most blocks to tell it was the FE family and does not always mean it's a 352. Later blocks have the reverse 105 and some nothing at all. Funny I have a 63 406 and the block does not have the 352 marking. Just the casting number, date code and the HP markings. Post the head numbers if you can also. They are between the center two spark plugs.

G.

Heads are coded C8AE-H, they are not original to this block. Also found code on front passenger side of block that reads C6ME as best I cam read. Where might I find the rest of the info, besides crank, I will pull that out next wek.
Thanks for the help,
kapp71

Hi Kapp,

The C6ME block is a 1966 Merc casting. Same as is on my "428" (which turns out to be a 410 bored .060). C8AE-H heads are 390. Again, same as was on my extra engine. They came with a number of different configurations. How many exhaust flange bolt holes? If 12, they're 390GT heads or have been bored to look like 'em. If 8, probably from a full-size Ford or Merc car.

Probably not a bad setup. Some of the C6ME blocks were 390s, some 428s, and some 390s with the longer stroke crank (that became the 428CJ crank, and was used in the 7 litre Galaxies and so on 1966 or so).

If you're really lucky, it could be a Galaxie 428 (7 litre). Best I can tell, there weren't any 352s built on the C6ME block - they were either 390, 410, or 428. I think I'd read that the 352 ended production in 1965, but not sure about that.

Anyway, probably a pretty good piece. The C8AE-H heads breathe okay - somewhere around here I have the dimensions, and they aren't far from the 427MR heads or 428CJ heads. The problem is with a bend in the runners, if memory serves - too tight an angle.

I'm sure someone will have more details, and I'll post 'em if I find 'em.

If you have any photos of the back of the block, you can post them or send them. A "C" scratched roughly in the back of the block was for a CobraJet engine and an "A" was for the 428. The "C" will appear backward, as the letter was scratched in the sand of the mold before casting.

When you get to the crank, if it has a "1U" on it (I think it's the second weight from the back), it's the 410/428 crank. :LOL:

Snake, the C6ME is a 66 and later casting which I'm sure you meant.

Kapp, As Snake as described (very well also!) your engine could be a 360,390.410 or 428. You will see when you tear it down. C6ME was one of the generic casting number from the day. The date code on the block will tell the exact date of casting. It's below the oil filter adapter area. Look on the small angled part of the block there for a number/letter/number(s) sequence. G.

Thanks again for your responces. I need to correct an earlier posting. The front of the block below the drivers side head has casting numbers: 30, with the 352 below. This may not mean much but it didnt make sence for it to say C3 (63) when the block is coded C6ME. kapp.

Good catch, FFR. I was rereading the post above (the C3 reference), and suffered from brain not telling hand which keys to push. Absolutely right - C6 is 66, M is Merc, E is Engine. May be a -A after, but as it wasn't stated, we'll assume not. Same block, anyway, for all practical purposes.

Thanks for correcting that.

Kapp the 30 below the 352 is just the block mold number. The 352 was just an identifier used on the block besides the later reverse 105. Besides checking the cyl bore you also want to gap the cyl wall cores. This will further help to tell what block you have. Sonic checking is the absolute best way but this is a quick and easy identifier. I can fill you in if interested.

Snake, I figured you meant 66. I've done the same many, many times. Fingers faster than the brain in my case. LOL. G.

As always, your help is much appriciated. I just pulled the oil pan off to check out the crank and it has the "1U" marking on the second weight from the rear of the motor. Just wanted to verify what Snake said. If it is a 410/428 crank I will be very happy.
Kapp.

ok guys , ijust got myself a nice 68 merc parlane conv.
by the vin it should be a 390cid. my block is stamped c7me-a
the heads are stamped c8ae-h
why the diffrence? and i have found the letters "dif" stamped in 2 diffrent places on the block. also on the ear just above the starter is the letter a , looks to be scratched in verses molded
any help

Jamie if the "A" is on the rear of the block as you describe good chance the block is a 428. DIF is for Dearborn Iron Foundry where the block was cast. You can then knock out the freeze plugs and gap the wall cores to see if it's a 428. A 13/64" drill bit shank will fit snugly between the cyl wall cores for a 428 and 17/64" bit shank for 390 cyl wall cores. This is commonly know as the drill bit test and you can convert the 64" to better suit you bit sizes if needed. This is just the standard measurement for the test. This will confirm what cyl wall molds were used inside the block. The C8-H heads were used on std 428's (not CJ/SCJ) and also 352's and 390's. So it's a pretty common head and could be original to the engine if the date codes for both jive with the block. If you determine the block is indeed a 428 look for a "IU or IUB" marking on the crankshaft. This will confirm a 3.98 stroke 428 crank. You can of course meaure the cyl bore for a 4.13 428 or 390 4.05 cyl bore. The drill bit test will back up your bore measurement readings hopefully. Also keep overbore in mind when measuring cyl bores. Get the date code off the block and heads if possible. Look for a number/letter/number(s) sequence below the oil filter adapter mounting pad on the block. Also above the C8 casting number under the valve cover area between the center two valve springs for the heads. Sorry to write a novel here.
G.

Hey Denny hows things? Those heads were used on the 410's. But also 352, 390, and 428. And the block C6ME-A is listed for a 410. But also listed for a 390,428,330HD and 360. So check the bore and wall cores inside the freeze plugs to confirm. Also look for "IU" on the crank for a 410 crank. Should be on the 7th counterweight from the front. The 6L10 is the date code of 66/Nov/10th. The "A" offhand think was just an internal identifier but not positive. What is the date code on the heads? Should be between the center two valve springs. The original slugs would have 410 on them also. Also on the heads I have two listings for that casting. First the 66-68 390 with 67-70 cc heads and thermoactor. Second the std listing for the 67 352, 390, 410 and 428 with 71-74 cc heads. Let me know what else you need. G.

:D Glad to help! Pretty cool another 410!
G.

thank ffr428. i got into the crank last night and the only markings i found on the crank was 2u on the 2nd or 3rd weight.it must be a 390 , ill check the cyl tonight. i was thrown off by all the diffrent casting numbers , on on cyl head by the plug hole has 21 and the letter w and the other has a 5 and the letter e.there is also a large 2 above the casting number on the block. the a is on a milled ear that looks as if it was used to hold the block during assy. just above the starter and it can be seen with the engine in the car

Have a question. I had a fellow come into my shop the other day and wanted me to do some front end work on his 54 ford truck. He like most of us are on a budget and wanted to save a little money so he asked if I would take a motor for a partial trade out I said yea sure exspecting to see a flat head or six in there when i raised the hood there was an FE motor under the hood. Hmm I said well with my luck it is a 352 well not this time. It appears to be a 390 numbers read C3AE and then under them it has 6015H. I know that it is a 63 and as some of the info tells me the A stands for fairlane or galaxie ( cant remember) and we all know the E is for engine. Now what I need to know is what does the 6015 mean and the what about that H. I know that the engine has an A but the engine has THUNDERBIRD on the valve covers and also has an S on the manifolds indicating TBIRD could the A code motor have been used in a TBIRD. The only reason that I ask this is becuase it all looks like it has not been tampered with and the numbers all indicate 63 plus it still has the keeper locks on the exhaust manifold bolts. Ant ideas? Thanks

The C3AE-6015-H was the service block for the 62-63 390 PI. It's a hyd lifter block and is the service replacement for the C3AE-6015-E solid lifter PI block. The H block was used in either std 390 or 390 PI applications as a multi purpose block as it was drilled for hyd lifter oiling. The lifter oil galleys were plugged if solids were ran...or not. The 6015 number is just the casting number for a std production block. Serivce blocks used a 6010 part number. The Thunderbird VC's came on all FE's back then not just the Tbirds. It's also very possible the H block was a regular production block then after. My resources indicate a service part tho. But the best was to tell is grab the date code off the side of the block and compare it to the head and intake date codes. You can also check the blocks final machined date on the left ear by the head deck. That is stamped in after the blocks are machined. The blocks date code is on the left side above the oil filter adapter. The head date codes are under the VC area between the center 2 valve springs. Intake date code if iron should be by the thermostat or dizzy area. If aluminum it may or may not have a date code. What is the casting number of the heads? It's between the center 2 spark plugs. C3AE-6090-C?

G.

Pretty much what FFR said... my 64 Tbird has a C3AE-6015 H block in it, painted black, gold "thunderbird" valve covers. 4.05 bore x 3.78 stroke, hydraulic lifters. At this point in time I'm assuming its either the original block or a factory replacement because of the date code by the oil filter adapter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kapp714x4fe

As always, your help is much appriciated. I just pulled the oil pan off to check out the crank and it has the "1U" marking on the second weight from the rear of the motor. Just wanted to verify what Snake said. If it is a 410/428 crank I will be very happy.
Kapp.

---

Yep! a "1U" code means it's a 3,98"stroke crank...so a 410/428 crank:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnakeHerder

Same as is on my "428" (which turns out to be a 410 bored .060).

---

eh...sorry Snake...to add to your pain of not having a 428, but eh...you mean a 390 bored .060...'cause a 410 was a 390 block with the 3.98" stroke crank, nothing more...(well...a little more)
:CRY:
390 bored .060 and with 3.98" stroke makes 422...a non-stock cube combo :cool:
a bored 390 with an .060 overbore makes a total of 4.110" cylinder bore, wich comes pretty close... but some 6 cubes short of being a 428 :LOL:
(my bird has it's bored and stroked 390-->422 right now):whacked:

ok FFR 428 the plot thickens or at least the confusion does. The oil pump has a B9AE on it, the crank has a C3AE-E and a D stamped on the front wieght and a number 10 cast in to the crank. the rods say C1AE the main caps say C2AE and the block below the oil filter says V S (and then bellow) 3026 the heads have a 3C29 date and between the plugs 6090C and then in larger numbers 40. the D on the crank mean and the 6090C and 40 on the heads. Why were all the bottom end parts different as far as dates was it peice mealed engine or what?

No just the opposite it all sounds pretty original. The C3-E crank is a 390 crank used from late 62-early 64. The rods and maincaps also correct. Those rods were used for a few years and into 63. The C2 on the maincaps can be found on all FE blocks except the 427 until the early 70's. And the 3026 I bet is a 3C26 and the date code of 63/March/26. So double check that the 0 is a C. Heads 63/March 29th C3AE-C std bread and butter FE lowriser head used ath the time. There are lots of other letters and numbers and stampings etc...most of which pertain to the mold numbering system the Dearborn foundry was using. Some of the stampings are marks for finished parts or to tell the guy down the line these parts are different etc... The B9 oil pump I'll have to check but I'll bet the rocker stands are B9 parts also. LOL. Ford would not change the casting number on the part for years sometimes. They would change or update the part number in the books while the part itself and it's casting number was not changed at all. So to me it all sounds very original. Good deal!

G.

Alright this a good thing the block looks great I dont think that the motor has ever been torn down. It still had the metal head gasket with ford numbers on it and felpro gaskets on the intake. I know where there is another 390 to stick back for rainy day. Ok you guys have been such a help I need a favor. The 70 boss car that I have bolonged to the best bud I ever had. He was killed in a motorcycle wreck august before last and what made it eaven worse we had lost a mutal close friend in august two years before that. He and I were starting on a 70 boss 302 grabber green flat top car. After we had torn down the engine we found that the block was a standard (non boss) 302. Every thing else in the engine was boss except that. We got the car stripped and were waiting for the sand blaster to call and let us know he was ready for the car. Well in the mean time marty was killed leaving behind a wife and four kids. His job mandated that he have good life insurance and he had his finances pretty squared away. The only boy mitchell is 14 who I take alot of time with we still ive right across the street from them. He is interested in building the car. Marty and I had already restored another 70 boss that he had sold. He kept the money from that car and had planned to use that to restore this one and make an all original driver out of it. His wife is all about having this car restored and wants me to do it for them. I have a problem. I cant find another block for the car and I know there has to be one out there that someone would part with to make this car happen the way marty would have wanted it to. Thanks