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Thinking about building a 429/460 on the side, while I'm driving the car, and then putting it in. What do you think I should use for a core motor? I have a 68-69 4v 429 c6 in it now. Runs ok, but thinking on more power, but still want to maintain "some" street manners. Any suggestions?
That's the one I'd use. Cam, intake & Headers will wake it up enough.
With the shorter stroke, the 429's are a bit quicker revving, but for all out torque the 460's are hard to beat!!! Then add a stroker kit to the 460 and the torque numbers really go up!!!! Both make great street engines. I like big torque numbers, so I guess my vote would go with the 460, stroker kit, aluminum heads and intake, and a mild cam...
Great motors. As suggested, you don't need a really big cam in those to build power. I've never worked much with 429s, but I helped a friend build a 460 for a t-bucket. Dyno'd @ 530 ft/lbs......mild performance cam and 2,500 stall in front of a C6. Now when you start boring and stroking 460s, things really get interesting.
-Lee
www.atomicpinup.com
The 429 block is identical to the 460 ,just a different crank.You would be replacing the crank,rods,pistons,might as well stroke it ,like Dave said.
I pretty sure the 4.5 inch stroker kits drop right in ,without clearancing problems.That makes it a 550 sumtin or a 598 ,depeding on bore and at 1 hp per cubic inch,thats plenty for a street ride.
1 hp per cubic inch is easy to do and the engine will last.I think the last time I checked ,the decent stroker kits were from 1300 to 1600 bucks,You could use the rest of the stock engine ,with maybe a intake for awhile too ,untill you could get some head work done to unleash the cubes.
Is there any 460 (head wize) that's better than others, to try and locate?
a buddy of mine design the ex514 head that works very good in a mild 460 or stroker engine. he had a right up in the ford magazine when he used his heads on a 500+cid pump gas engine that made 830hp and was very streetable. not saying you need 800hp but the heads are very good pieces.
If your talking cast iron, the DOVE heads are good, for aluminum heads on a street engine, the Edelbrocks work great as well as the AFR's.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrc013
I've got a 460 that is built and sitting, waiting for something to drop it in. I used early heads and had them reworked with bigger SS valves, guideplates, Harlan Sharp roller rockers, ported, polished, etc. IF I had it to do over I would have bought a set of aluminum heads and probably had the same money in them, plus shed some weight.
One thing about every part of a 460, THEY ARE ALL HEAVY. :eek: :eek: :D
Don
Hey Don, nice guy that I am, I sure would let you set that engine in one of my Torino's!!!! Please put a scattershield and a TKO 600 behind it for me too, ok????? I won't even charge ya nothin'!!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
PS, I have a good clutch and flywheel for it!!!
I would try a set of Blue Thunder heads on a 557.
I would run a hyd. roller cam.
I have used Crane part #359351 in a 514 with very good sucess.
All 460 blocks are good ones...basically most all core 460s are good ones (carbureted versions). As far as a rebuilder core, the main difference between years is in the cylinder heads, but for a street engine to 500HP or so, any year will work and be a maintenance free engine at that HP level. (More HP is certainly possible.)Quote:
Originally Posted by mrc013
If you want some grunt power for that Galaxie, I would suggest a 501 or 521 stroker. I'm not a fan of the 4.5 stroke (557 stroker) cranks for several reasons, unless there are specific circumstances for running them. These stroker rotating assembies are available complete with bearings and rings, just bring your block to the machine shop and have them prep it for assy. Also, you will be amazed at what the OEM iron heads can do when propery prepped for the application, AND when you pop the hood the engine looks like a stock longblock...and then you smoke the competition. :D
Give some more detail about how much power you desire (and if it must run on pump gas) and I can suggest a combo or two.
Paul
www.highflowdynamics.com
I would love to hear the reasons not to run the 4.5 stroke crank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kane
I have a customer that brought me a 4.5 forged crank and rods from TMD.
He started running 6.50's with ported dove heads and a mech. roller cam.
That was last tear with 70 pass's on it shifting at 6,000 rpm's.
He basicly ran out of head.
This year he has a set of Blue Thunder heads he bought used on the same engine. and went to a larger mech. roller cam along with a 200 shot of N20.
He has had chaissis problems and has only run a best of 5.21.
He has over 80 pass's on the engine so far with no problems.
Not bad for a $450 imported crank.
Paul, I want to run the car on the street, pump gas. Power needs to be respectable, I would say 400 to 450 horse should be all I need. If we can plan the build w/more hp, but still remain reliable, and streetable, thats ok.
I am leaning more towards iron heads, because I already have a set of 69 heads, but don't know what to do with them. I've read a lot about hydraulic rollers, but cost wise, not sure its the way to go, given all the valve train upgrades.
EE,Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
I didn't say not to run one; I said that I am not a fan and that I prefer the smaller stroker cranks.
There is little journal overlap with the 4.5 stroker, also they pull the pistons way out of the hole at BDC, then there's the rod ratio, increased cost of building relative to the smaller stroker cranks, etc. But yes, the 4.5 strokers are indeed run with success and will continue to be offered as they, too, are a "drop in" rotating assembly without any crankcase clearancing required, etc.
And they also can make an engine more costly to bulild, as they need more air to breathe, ie more cam (a roller if you really want the BIG HP, but this is not necessary for the engine to run), aslmost always cost more $ to balance, more $ for better heads (ideally), etc. And then with all that power you have this cast crankshaft with minimal journal overlap and thereby minimized structual integrity. A lot or racers seem to be breaking the 4.5 stroke cast cranks at about 1000+ HP or above. That might be a lot of HP for others...but again, for me, I'm just not a fan and would rather go with a smaller stroke deal. Good thing the forged cranks have arrived.
The 4.3 stroker (521/533) makes for a practically "square" engine, which I personally like. More importantly, the 6.8 rodded 521/533 stroker puts the piston pins just .030" lower in the bore at BDC than the OEM 460...which I re-e-e-e-eally like. Great rod ratio. We recently completed a 528 (4.42B x 4.3S) combo that runs on regular ol' pump gas and a single carburetor, and produced 737HP on the dyno, and a diesel flat torque curve that hovered around 655-678 pounds from 4000-6500 rpm (didn't check lower rpms due to the jetr boat application of the engine).
I simply much prefer the 4.3 stroke over the 4.5 stroke deal.
Paul
450 HP with C9VE heads and a regular 460 crankshaft is very, very easy...even on pump gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrc013
The above cam may be run with oem valve train harware with a mild spring upgrace (110-120 pound seat) and oem valve train...but a roller rocker upgrade will give room to grow and accomodate bigger camshafts, be much more durable, etc. What you chose to actually run depends on other variables, and this combo is only a rough suggestion and in no way has the details.
- Stock block with oiling mods as outlined on our website's Technical Pages
- .030" overbore 22cc dished pistons, such as the budget TRW L2404F30
- Stock prepped rods with quality rod bolts
- OEM 460 crank
- HV oil pump
- CompCams cam kit with springs and lifters, such as XE262H (513/520, 218/224, 110*)
- Ported C9VE heads (that you say you have) with 2.19" intake.1.72 exhaust valves, requisite port work, springs retainers, locks etc.
- Quality roller rockers, such as Crane Gold Series or equivalent.
- Weiand Stealth part number 8012 aluminum intake manifold
- Holley 850 cfm List # 4781
- Headers
- Recurved Duraspark distributor or MSD breakerless
- Headers
- (this makes a 9.6:1 c/r)
With the above camshaft, 400 HP is about what you'd get, while a simple cam upgrade (with roller rocker valve train mandatory) can get you to 450 HP or possibly 500HP with other bolt ons.
Paul
www.highflowdynamics.com
A Ford dude I know said some of the least abused, best maintained 460's are in old motorhomes, if you can locate one.
Who do I contact regarding the stroker kit?
Lots of different companies selling them.... Do a Google search for "stroker kits" and start shopping. Lots of them on eBay, too.
I will take the 4.5 stroke any day of the week to get a heavy bracket car to move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kane
In a marine application where the engine has to the rpm's for longer time frame I would prefer a shorter stroke.
A 1,000 + hp on a cast crank??
Why would you even try this???
At 600 hp I am looking for a forged crank.
Thats why I like the fords........I am lookin at 550 -600 on the stock crank :LOL:Of course ,I am only gunna turn it to 6000 rpm or so.
Shawn,he was talking about a new "cast steel" crank not the stock factory crank.Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnlee28
Correct,...........that one goes to almost 1000 hp.
MRC, if you're serious then contact me and I can set you up with a major distributor that carries top of the line brand name kits for a good price.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrc013
Paul
EE,Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
I never said that I would "try this" with an offshore cast crankshaft, I said that a lot of racers are having such said experience. Why do you keep misinterpreting my posts? I already stated that it's a good thing that the overseas forgings have arrived realtive to such application(s).
And if you are saying that you are building bracket cars with 600HP motors that use the cast 4.5 stroke cranks, then that's great. I don't see a problem with that either. But if you are saying that you are having problems with the cast cranks above just 600HP and must then turn to a forged crankshaft, then I'd begin to question the integrity of the build(s) and the tune...although I have heard of a defective cast offshore crank snapping during a leisurely trip aboud the block during a 2000 rpm break-in...
Believe it or not, marine application race engines, including jet boats and v-drives, are going to larger stroker rotating assemblies and turning the engines slower...and finding greater ET's and traps speeds than with the shorter stroke peaky stuff of yesteryear.
Paul
We've done about 1800HP on the stock factory cast cranks. :D Don't try this at home! 800-1000HP from a carefully selected, well prepped OEM crankshaft ought to hold up in an engine privided it is kept in good tune. But if you are building engine's of that HP level, you can certainly afford a better crankshaft. We use the cast cranks in our own engines but would not put one into a customer's engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnlee28
Paul
MRC, here's a good budget, maintenance-free, pump gas stroker combo for the street:
- Stock block with oiling mods
- 500 cube stroker kit with 4.14 stroke crank, 6.800 H-beam rods, .030" overbore 32cc dished pistons
- HV oil pump
- Lunati 61605 hydraulic cam
- Ported C9VE heads with 2.19" intake/1.76 exhaust valves, requisite port work, springs retainers, locks etc.
- Quality roller rockers, such as Crane Gold Series or equivalent.
- Weiand Stealth part number 8012 aluminum intake manifold
- Holley 950HP
- Recurved Duraspark distributor or MSD breakerless
- Headers
- (this makes a 9.8:1 c/r)
A well planned version of the above build ought to manage at least 550 HP and have the potential for much, much more with induction changes and a camshaft upgrade...but at the cost of fuel economy and preventive maintenance.
Paul
Just going to add my .02 to the mix; I have a 460+.060,line bored,decked,iron heads (76 lincoln) ported by myself on the exhaust side and gasket matched on intake side, 3 angle valve job, .020 milled from heads,flat top hyper-utetic pistons, arp rod bolts, all balanced,Comp Cams 270H kit, edelbrok performer intake with 750cfm carb,hedders with 2 in primarys,stock ignition with mallory box, stock oil pump,RV torque converter and C6 trans, very streetable on pump gas. This is in my 1963 Mercury Monterey 2 dr sedan and it suprises many a chebby that laughs at big heavy cars with the blue oval, my biggest problem is traction, I can fry the tires way past 80 mph if I launch too hard.
Did you do anything special to the valve train? Rockers, studs, push rods, ect?
Paul, Wher would be the best place to purchase a 514 stroker set up? Is this the engine that you recomend building? Next up, detailed machine work on the heads/port work. Cost?:3dSMILE:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kane
Yes, roller rockers, guideplates and hardened pushrods, steel retaiers with 10* locks, stainless valves, etc. The OEM valve train that comes with the C9VE heads cannot accomodate a camshaft of that specification.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrc013
Paul
Contact Brian Adams at AD Performance. His prices are competetive and his parts are high quality and not the cheaper stuff (too many headaches with the lesser budget parts). He selss Eagle and SCAT sroker kits and they can be fit with many different brands of pistons.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrc013
Website: www.adperformance.com
Email: scatstroker@hotmail.com
Tell him Paul Kane sent you.
In regards to the heads, "at least 550HP" with the 501 combo noted on page 2 assumes well prepped cylinder heads. As-cast C9VE's wont do the trick and will require porting, as the factory iron heads are plagued with a dismal flowing exhaust port. Proper porting of the factory iron transforms the oem iron head capability a la Jeckyl and Hyde. I know of castings like yours supporting in excess of 700hp on natrually aspirated stroker engines. Prices on porting varies, and you usually get what you pay for. I'm not as inexpensive as most people, but I'm not the most expensive either.
We set most customers up with well ported iron heads, oversize stainless valves, 3-angle valve job, resurface, new valve stem seals, locks and retainers, etc. Call or PM if interested, or you can pay a fee to gain access to a self porting website and do it yourself...but with stroker engines I think that expert porting is the wise thing to do.
Paul
This Galaxie runs too warm to suit me. The temp guage says 210 most of the time. I would like to gain a margin of safety with this new engine. What do you recomend for brand of water pump. I would like to continue running the 69 ford cross flow (new) including the factory shroud. Electric fans seem to be too noisy. Do the aluminum cross flow radiators really help enough to warrant the cost? I had a speed shop work on the timing, and the Unilite. It's better, but in Arizona, you need all the help you can get. Paul, I will look up your phone number, and call you about the heads for this build. Thanks to all you good old Ford boys for your help. I was born and raised on chevys! Why do I have this obsession with this Galaxie? Because I think it's cool, and most of all.......it's different than your run of the mill 57 Chev. I have owned several of those. There cool too, but ... just something about riding "on top" in a FORD.:toocool:
Are the water pumps, pre 1970 diffewrent on 429s? I am looking to purchase a hivolume pump from PAW, and they don't list anything pre 1970.
you can port the stock 460 heads for good performance or you can look into the aftermarket. Edelbrock and John Kasse both have awesome heads for the 385 series behemouths. the P-51 heads are killer heads for these engines even if its just a .30 over 466. you can't go wrong with a good 460