429 newbie questions

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01-23-2005, 07:06 PM
6773

429 newbie questions

I have a '73 Mustang. I'm thinking of putting a 429 in it instead of rebuilding the stock 351C 2-v. I found an ad for a rebuilt police interceptor 429/rebuilt C-6 combo. The ad says the block is a D1VE and the heads are DVEA2A. I've tried to research casting numbers...If I have it right the head #'s are missing either a 2 or a 3 after the D. If I have it right these are the worst heads for a performance rebuild and aren't interceptor heads. Am I correct? Should I stay away from this engine? I dont race, but I dont want to swap out the Cleveland umless I can get 450hp or so out of a 429. Also, what is the weight difference between a stock 429 and a stock Cleveland?
01-23-2005, 07:15 PM
TedIII

Re: 429 newbie questions

Quote:

Originally posted by 6773
I have a '73 Mustang. I'm thinking of putting a 429 in it instead of rebuilding the stock 351C 2-v. I found an ad for a rebuilt police interceptor 429/rebuilt C-6 combo. The ad says the block is a D1VE and the heads are DVEA2A. I've tried to research casting numbers...If I have it right the head #'s are missing either a 2 or a 3 after the D. If I have it right these are the worst heads for a performance rebuild and aren't interceptor heads. Am I correct? Should I stay away from this engine? I dont race, but I dont want to swap out the Cleveland umless I can get 450hp or so out of a 429. Also, what is the weight difference between a stock 429 and a stock Cleveland?

I would think hard on what I want to do with the car. Do the 351C numbers match? It they do I would keep it. The engine can give you what you want. Plus you want have to modifiy your shock towers. The 429 is a nice engine, and it also is 32" Long and 26" High and 28 5/8" wide. Where the 351C is 27-1/2" Long and 20-3/4" High and 18-3/4 wide. With a little $$$ and some work you could have a nice street rod with matching #s:3dSMILE:
not to mention your hole front suspension will have to change.
01-23-2005, 07:16 PM
jramshu

Welcome to CHR.
Now where are all those Ford guys?

I was typing when a post came in, like I said running a little slow today.
01-23-2005, 07:20 PM
TedIII

Quote:

Originally posted by jramshu
Welcome to CHR.
Now where are all those Ford guys?

I was typing when a post came in, like I said running a little slow today.

That's right if it broke don"t fix it.
But you can have some fun:whacked:
01-23-2005, 07:22 PM
TedIII

Quote:

Originally posted by TedIII
That's right if it broke don"t fix it.
But you can have some fun:whacked:

You Known what I mean, Maybe its time for some spell checking:D
01-23-2005, 07:55 PM
TedIII

Quote:

Originally posted by TedIII
You Known what I mean, Maybe its time for some spell checking:D

The 351C is about 550lbs and the 429 is about 650lbs:)
01-23-2005, 08:06 PM
Dave Severson

The heads aren't much to write home about, but the new John Kasse Cobra Jet heads in the SVT catalog would certainly wake up the horse!!!! I used to run a 460 stroker motor with the old Alan Root CJ aluminum heads, very strong motor. I have a couple 460's around now, waiting for the next project that needs one. The 429 motor RPM's a bit quicker than the 460's but are down on the torque numbers.
01-24-2005, 05:36 AM
6773

Re: Re: 429 newbie questions

Quote:

Originally posted by TedIII
I would think hard on what I want to do with the car. Do the 351C numbers match? It they do I would keep it. The engine can give you what you want. Plus you want have to modifiy your shock towers. The 429 is a nice engine, and it also is 32" Long and 26" High and 28 5/8" wide. Where the 351C is 27-1/2" Long and 20-3/4" High and 18-3/4 wide. With a little $$$ and some work you could have a nice street rod with matching #s:3dSMILE:
not to mention your hole front suspension will have to change.

Everyone I've talked to has said I can drop a 429 in a '73 Stang without any mods. Are you sure I'd have to hack the towers? Yes, the Cleveland/FMX are #'s matching. They also have 160k on them. If I swap motors I will store the Cleveland. I've been pricing a rebuild for the Cleveland and it will cost quite a bit more than the 429 I'm looking at.
01-24-2005, 05:46 AM
6773

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Severson
The heads aren't much to write home about

The rebuilt 429 I'm looking at has a Stealth intake, 800 cfm Edelbrock carb and an upgraded cam (not sure what kind of cam right now). Given my goal of 450hp in a car that won't be raced, should I dismiss this engine because of the poor heads? What is a ballpark figure on what a set of stock C or DOVE heads cost? There's no way I could afford new aluminum heads at this time.
01-24-2005, 08:13 AM
Paul Kane

If the casting numbers on the heads are D_VE-A2A,, then they are very, very likely D3VE-A2A heads.

The engine is nice and the heads are nice. Unfortuately the overall engine package of this 429, with its 3.59" stroke combined with the D3VE-A2A heads, makes for a very low compression motor. It will still move that Mustang pretty well, but just know that this particular 385 engine is probably the least powerful of the 429's released from the factory.

I understand you intend to do a swap without any other engine mods, but just to let you know, one of two things would make a notable difference in this particular engine's output would be: 1) install a 460 crankshaft, or, 2) install some early-style heads (D0VE, etc.).

The engine is a bolt-in replacement; this is in fact one of the reasons why Ford changed the Mustang (to accomodate that engine).

Keep the original parts since they are numbers matching, so to speak.

Paul
01-24-2005, 06:10 PM
TedIII

Re: Re: Re: 429 newbie questions

Quote:

Originally posted by 6773
Everyone I've talked to has said I can drop a 429 in a '73 Stang without any mods. Are you sure I'd have to hack the towers? Yes, the Cleveland/FMX are #'s matching. They also have 160k on them. If I swap motors I will store the Cleveland. I've been pricing a rebuild for the Cleveland and it will cost quite a bit more than the 429 I'm looking at.

Well their you go. Never had a stang, but i could have just drop in a 429 in my 67 cougar without removing the sock towers,and a few mods and different trans. But what a knuckle buster,and I wanted more room to work on it with the after market heads blue thunder which take up another 1 1/2 of header space. And I also consider the extra 100lbs.
01-24-2005, 11:44 PM
Paul Kane
Quote:

Originally posted by techinspector1
If these are the D2VE-A2A heads, they are open chamber heads and are only good as boat anchors. Ford only made them one year. If they are D3VE-A2A's, they have small valves and ports but should be ok for a moderate output street motor. The best single change you can make in this motor is to replace the timing chain and gears with a set for a '68-'71 429. ('72-up timing sets were retarded 8*). Second best change, disassemble and cut the block for zero deck, using head gaskets with a 0.040"- 0.045" compressed thickness. While you're in there, follow Paul's suggestion about the 460 crank and pistons and better heads. After that, small tube headers, Performer or Air-Gap manifold and 750 carb. That's just my opinion. Your results may vary.

Good points above. I apologize in advance for my nerdy nit-pickiness :rolleyes: , and wish to make some corrections too:
- I don't believe there is a D2VE-A2A head. There is only a D2VE-AA head. For this reason, if the heads truly read as, D_VE-A2A, then it is 95% likely they are early D3VE-A2A wedge heads. I have seen a couple of pair of such heads and they were indeed D3VE-A2A's both of those times.
- D3VE-A2A heads don't have smaller valves but actually have the exact same 2.09" intake and 1.65" exhaust valve sizes as the early-style heads. And they can now be made to flow on par with early-style heads, as far as the ports go.
But with 1972-73 429 dish pistons and 429 stroke, compression will indeed remain low. It's easier to swap heads than tear down the whole block to replace pistons.

Finally, please don't be disouraged with your 1972 429 engine, I had a 1973 429 in a 5300 lb wagon and it's not so bad. Bolt it in your Mustang, sort everything out and drive it! Have fun! By the time you're ready to go though the engine, you'll have learned all about it and know precisely what you want to do.

Paul
03-13-2005, 07:14 PM
tbird

I'm new - isthere such a thing as an internally balanced engine? 'cause my 429 doesn't have a harmonic balance.help?
03-13-2005, 08:28 PM
Paul Kane

All 429's are internally balanced.

All 460's through the 1978 model year are internally balanced. 1979-up 460's are externally balanced.

Paul
03-13-2005, 08:30 PM
Powerluvr

Hi T-bird, all of the 385 series engines (429-460) are internally balanced by the crankshaft.
03-13-2005, 09:20 PM
SnakeHerder

When I saw the start of this, I was hoping I'd have some good news - hoping the PI motor was the same as the 429CJ/SCJ motor. A guy I knew in the mid-1970s had one, and it moved out sharply. But that was only in 1971.

For TedIII, you're right for cars like yours and mine - the shock towers are too close for the 429/460 motors without some shock tower surgery. 1971, with the big body, was the first year that would take the 429 without it. That's where KarKraft made their name with the Boss 429 in 1969/1970 - fixing the width of the engine bay. And with crescent heads, the plugs were right up on top where you could actually change them.

Back to the question at hand. The 429CJ/SCJ heads look like they were D0OE-R, with screw-in rocker studs and factory guide plates. The block would be the D0VE-A block, and the SCJ had the four-bolt mains. They ran 11.3:1 compression, but the later ones would be lower.

I have only limited specs on the 429 police engine, but it should have D2OE-AB heads. 89cc chambers, 2.08 intake/1.66 exhaust valves, 1.65x2.19 intake, 1.47x2.06 exhaust ports.

The D0OE-R heads are much better for making power. 73.5cc chambers, 2.24 intake/1.72 exhaust valves, 2.12x2.56 intake/1.32x2.24 exhaust ports.

That's all I've got on these. Good luck - the 429 will bolt in with the right motor mounts, and the C6 is plenty tough. Don't know what rear end you've got - could be the weak link, both in terms of handling power, and (if it's an open diff) traction.
03-14-2005, 08:00 AM
Paul Kane

All good info above, except that I'd like to correct the valve sizes. The D20E-AB heads did not have the stock passenger car valve sizes (as noted above). Rather, they were 2.19" intake and 1.72 exhaust.

Paul
04-20-2005, 02:21 AM
RickinMN

If you need a new balancer you can order new ones at cnc-motorsports.com Part number PP-80008 for $69.65 I have one on my 429 in a 75 1/2 ton 4X4 and my 73 tbird. They are made by powerforce and I haven't had any problems soo far.
04-30-2005, 02:28 AM
RickinMN

Now days you can buy really cheap small block crate motors, even from ford. If you need a damper ford a ford 429-460 them cnc-motorsports.com has Powerforce 6.7 " street damper for $61.00 Plus shipping.
05-19-2005, 09:59 AM
tugboatj

My father was a mechanic for over 30 years and he passed away recently. He had recently purchased a 1972 429 police interceptor motor with the C6 transmission. Reportedly the engine only has 10K miles on it. My family is looking to sell the motor but I need to get more information from the motor itself in order that I can place an add or post it on Ebay. From reading previous posts, I take it there are three(?) locations to find serial numbers. Where exactly are the serial numbers, head information etc. and any other information that may be relevant in order that I can be more descriptive in my add and sell the engine. The engine runs great, no smoke and he had it running on a block in his shop shortly before he died.

I am not the most mechanically inclined and help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
05-19-2005, 04:11 PM
460_fan

the block casting numbers are above the starter and also on the right rear portion of the block, heads castings are under the valve covers, about half way back. atleast on mine anyways...

also I think there is a casting number on the block under the intake valley pan, but that would require pulling the intake to find it, the one near the starter will get you what you need, and should be easy to find if the engine is clean.
05-19-2005, 09:38 PM
Paul Kane
Quote:

Originally posted by 460_fan
the block casting numbers are above the starter and also on the right rear portion of the block, heads castings are under the valve covers, about half way back. atleast on mine anyways...

also I think there is a casting number on the block under the intake valley pan, but that would require pulling the intake to find it, the one near the starter will get you what you need, and should be easy to find if the engine is clean.

Tyhe numbers that the enthusiasts concern themselves with--and you should look for--are as follows:
- Head casting numbers are on the outside of the cylinder heads, along the valve cover mounting rail and between the 3rd & 4th exhaust ports. Police should be D20E-AB. If not, let us know what you find.
- Cylinder block casting is behind the starter and reads vertically.
- Intake manifold casting number is next to (behind) the carb mouning pad and starts with D0OE-9425-(X).
Paul