1968 Fiat 850 Spider

I have a '68 850 Spider that I bought from my dad in 1984 and drove through college and a few years after until I blew up the engine and couldn't afford to fix it.

I had purchased 2 wrecked donor cars, so I have a lot of extra parts (except for the rear drive axles, which seem to strip out fairly quickly), so if anyone needs anything please let me know.

I want to put this car back together and make it reliable enough to use as a daily driver with significant Interstate driving. I found that I could order a new engine from Italy for about $5K, but it would only add about 20HP compared to the original.

Has anyone had experience performing engine swaps using more common American engines and transmissions? I've heard of putting Mazda RX-7 rotary engines, VW engines and Pontiac V6 engines in: however, I have no experience with rotary engines or VW air-cooled engines, and it seems that I would need to find a reverse-rotation camshaft for the V6 to make it work. The body is in good shape and my interior pieces are in excellent shape. I blew up the engine racing, but now I just want to build a daily driver - one that I could pass on to my son when he's old enough.

Please advise.

Thank you,
David Butler

David,, check out www.cal-look.com there's been a lot of VW powered Fiats over the years...here's the latest..Eric
http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/...pg.150.150.jpg

Dave

I have seen the following engine shoved in the back of an 850.
Fiat 124's (push rod and twin cams), VW air cooled units and VW Rabbit units (complete transverse drive trian).

I have installed a VW 1776cc unit in the back of my 850.
and it was very simple (and not exspencive) See at:

http://gallery.italiancarclub.com/ca...s/IMG_0069.jpg

I have caught wind of a subaru installation base on the Sand rail conversions now available for VW's.

Here is my advice.
since you want a daily driver for get the V6, it will proove to be too much weight.
For any other non stock installation move to the VW transaxle (IRS tpye). This unit will handle greater torque than the Fiat unit and has a wide range of optional gear ratios available. Also the VW transaxle accepts normal engine rotations. (adaptors will need to be created if not using a VW motor.)

There is a sweet 124 twin cam unit in a 850 coupe that uses a VW trasnsaxle that you can view at:

www.carproductions.com.au/garage

The goog things about VW are the light weight, cheap available parts, and there is someone near you that know the in's and out's.

does anyone know any more about this vw aircooled into a fiat 850 spider swap
i have spent many hours searching the internet for any insight on what is involved and have come up empty handed? can anyone point me in the right direction?

speedracer,

what do you want to know?

daled

I didn't ask the question initially, but I'm looking to do the same swap, and have a few specific questions.

How do you mate the VW transmission to the Fiat hubs? Do you need special axles or do you use the Fiat/VW stock axles?

What about mounts for the transmission and engine? Do you start with some VW mounts and weld them to brackets to fit the Fiat engine compartment?

Is there any other custom pieces I would need?

Thanks,
Patrick
1971 Fiat 850 Spider (not yet on the road)

I fabricated the Transaxle front mount our a a piece of 10 awg sheet steel. It is a cut shape with one bend. I designed the mount to bolt to the body under the sway bar mounts. I added a 3/4" wide strip of 10 awg steel along the edges to make the mount ridgid. Two hole are match drilled to catch the factory transaxle mount.

I made my half shafts out of one vw half shaft assembly that I cut in half. I then measured to the Fiat hubs to get the required additional length of each half shaft (note: I set the motor 3/8" off of the centerline of the car, to allow the transaxle to go between the rear suspension mounts withiout any modification ) I added the required length of material using a piece of 4140 steel shafting. If I was to do this again I would cut the Fiat half shafts to the required length, but I wanted the ability to got back to stock if my conversion didn't work out.
I keyed the 4140 shafts and the original Fiat axle bells.

The rear engine mount is nothing more that a length of schedule 40 pipe with two hanging tabs welded to catch the upper two bell housing bolts. The ends of the pipe will require a piece of angle iron the will sit on top of the body frame section in the engine bay.

As to additional parts..
You will need a VW shift lever and the rod that connects it to the transaxle.
I made a flat plate the sits between the shifter and the hand brake. This plate hangs two bushing brackets the the shift linkage passes thru.
I cut the VW shift linkage as required to add 2 standard 3/8 ratchet swivels.
The leading swivel is just aft of the brushings the other swivel is at the end of the linkage and is drilled out to recieve the transaxle shift rod.

Conciderations:
You will not have a speedo drive on a vw transaxle. therefore no speedometer. (I am working o a solution)
The hand brake will require a rocking bar to be added. (I have designed but I have not installed one in my car as of yet.
I used a "Freeway Flyer" transaxle in way car. Vw wheels ar 15's while Fiat uses 13's.
If you use a stock transaxle you will lift the front of the car! and be out of gears at 50 MPH.

PS you will love this conversion!
Go to your local Fiat club and spank those snooty 124 guy's.

Thanks!

I'm probably not going to do this until next summer, as I'm going to drive it through the winter. The VW Transaxle is a definate, but I've had some freinds trying to talk me into a 2 rotor RX-7 engine rather than a hopped up VW (160 HP stock RX7 engines are cheap!)

I'll probably have more questions soon, as "next summer" sometimes gets shortened to "next month" when I get impatient.

Patrick Joyce
1971 850 Spider (not yet running)
1996 Camaro SS (very unstock)

good luck on the project!

While you are stuffing the wankle into your 850,
I'll be trying to cram a grand national into a 124 spider!

you can get about 110HP with a well tunned a112 abarth engine and it will look as stock

you got one?
what is the cost?

hey Alapimba,

is that a Fiat 600 parked upsidedown in your photo?
I am working on one for my daughter currently.

PS. most people park them right side up?

Hello
My engine is almost stock, only bigger valves and a bigger carburator.
Yeah it's my car upside down, during the rebuilding.
now it's on his wheels: http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0248749101/fiat/restauro/40.jpg

sweet.
I do love the color. My daughter has selected a jade/teal type color. I don't care for it much and its pricey.

So with the big valves im guessing 45HP?
My 600 is an early unit with suicide doors but it displaces 750cc.
The motor is complete but im not touching it untill the body work is done.

Iv'e been thinking of placing an 850 drive train into the car, Any thoughts?

I saw you i the latest Hot VW.
That had to hurt!
Good luck on the rebuild!
Need any sheet metal? Ive got some.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daled

I fabricated the Transaxle front mount our a a piece of 10 awg sheet steel. It is a cut shape with one bend. I designed the mount to bolt to the body under the sway bar mounts. I added a 3/4" wide strip of 10 awg steel along the edges to make the mount ridgid. Two hole are match drilled to catch the factory transaxle mount.

I made my half shafts out of one vw half shaft assembly that I cut in half. I then measured to the Fiat hubs to get the required additional length of each half shaft (note: I set the motor 3/8" off of the centerline of the car, to allow the transaxle to go between the rear suspension mounts withiout any modification ) I added the required length of material using a piece of 4140 steel shafting. If I was to do this again I would cut the Fiat half shafts to the required length, but I wanted the ability to got back to stock if my conversion didn't work out.
I keyed the 4140 shafts and the original Fiat axle bells.

The rear engine mount is nothing more that a length of schedule 40 pipe with two hanging tabs welded to catch the upper two bell housing bolts. The ends of the pipe will require a piece of angle iron the will sit on top of the body frame section in the engine bay.

As to additional parts..
You will need a VW shift lever and the rod that connects it to the transaxle.
I made a flat plate the sits between the shifter and the hand brake. This plate hangs two bushing brackets the the shift linkage passes thru.
I cut the VW shift linkage as required to add 2 standard 3/8 ratchet swivels.
The leading swivel is just aft of the brushings the other swivel is at the end of the linkage and is drilled out to recieve the transaxle shift rod.

Conciderations:
You will not have a speedo drive on a vw transaxle. therefore no speedometer. (I am working o a solution)
The hand brake will require a rocking bar to be added. (I have designed but I have not installed one in my car as of yet.
I used a "Freeway Flyer" transaxle in way car. Vw wheels ar 15's while Fiat uses 13's.
If you use a stock transaxle you will lift the front of the car! and be out of gears at 50 MPH.

PS you will love this conversion!
Go to your local Fiat club and spank those snooty 124 guy's.

---

Thanks so much for the response sorry i am so late seeing it. The project had disappeared until just last week when the current owner of the car decided he really didnt want it anymore and is going to give it to us for free.

i has a full roll cage installed already and is fully stripped all lights are removed as well as the dash and the windshield frame. The owner claims all it is misisng is a 850 shortblock and that it has heads everything else. So far my research has been unable to locate a shortblock so the VW route is looking more promising.

thanks again for the run down Daled you wouldnt have any pictures of the mounts would you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daled

I fabricated the Transaxle front mount our a a piece of 10 awg sheet steel. It is a cut shape with one bend. I designed the mount to bolt to the body under the sway bar mounts. I added a 3/4" wide strip of 10 awg steel along the edges to make the mount ridgid. Two hole are match drilled to catch the factory transaxle mount.

I made my half shafts out of one vw half shaft assembly that I cut in half. I then measured to the Fiat hubs to get the required additional length of each half shaft (note: I set the motor 3/8" off of the centerline of the car, to allow the transaxle to go between the rear suspension mounts withiout any modification ) I added the required length of material using a piece of 4140 steel shafting. If I was to do this again I would cut the Fiat half shafts to the required length, but I wanted the ability to got back to stock if my conversion didn't work out.
I keyed the 4140 shafts and the original Fiat axle bells.

The rear engine mount is nothing more that a length of schedule 40 pipe with two hanging tabs welded to catch the upper two bell housing bolts. The ends of the pipe will require a piece of angle iron the will sit on top of the body frame section in the engine bay.

As to additional parts..
You will need a VW shift lever and the rod that connects it to the transaxle.
I made a flat plate the sits between the shifter and the hand brake. This plate hangs two bushing brackets the the shift linkage passes thru.
I cut the VW shift linkage as required to add 2 standard 3/8 ratchet swivels.
The leading swivel is just aft of the brushings the other swivel is at the end of the linkage and is drilled out to recieve the transaxle shift rod.

Conciderations:
You will not have a speedo drive on a vw transaxle. therefore no speedometer. (I am working o a solution)
The hand brake will require a rocking bar to be added. (I have designed but I have not installed one in my car as of yet.
I used a "Freeway Flyer" transaxle in way car. Vw wheels ar 15's while Fiat uses 13's.
If you use a stock transaxle you will lift the front of the car! and be out of gears at 50 MPH.

PS you will love this conversion!
Go to your local Fiat club and spank those snooty 124 guy's.

---

thanks for the info i typed up a long thank you earlier today and it didnt get posted so this will be much shorter

the car we are picking up has no motor but has several pro built heads and has a gearbox of unknown condition.

the car is fully gutted and has a full rollcage installed and the windshield frame removed but there is no major rot in the subframes or suspension pickup points just minor surface rust on some of the body work.

it has been lightened to the max everything uneeded removed. the Vw conversion looks like it wont add much weight

the plan is to autox it in DM so i would like it to be under 1280lbs after the swap.

do you have pictures of your mounts? and do you know how much your car weighs?

i will get picks of the spider as soon as we pick it up and take it to its new home

Does anyone have a 1969 or around fiat for sale i have a 1969 fiat 850 spider that i am going to restore.