How hot are your headers...??

I've never run headers on any engine before, but the ones on my '53 seem like they are pretty darn hot. I've decided to build some heat shields around some of the "vitals" as I don't want a catostrophic melt down. I initially started/broke-in this engine when it was the afternoon (awhile back) and didn't really notice just how hot the headers were. I fired it up at night and could toast marshmallows by the header glow. I quickly knew I was running lean. I ordered a calibration kit for my carb and richened it up. This helped tremendously, as it really cooled it down. Now, I have just the slightest tinge of red at the collecters, not so much the tubes anymore. A little more fiddling with the carb and timing and I think I can bring it in.

So, will there be absolutely no glow when the engine is just stationary and say revving to 2000 rpm, or can/will they get a little red? I wonder if the "ram" air from rolling down the road will help cool as well??? :confused:

I've never had headers glow red, but I've never had coated ones either. :)

Headers fry stuff under the hood. A blanket is made for the starter, and wrap for other vitals.
I did the header thing on my Olds Rocket 455. Today, I leave the stock cast irons on and do dual pipes. I build for low end anyway, it all comes on by 1500rpm.
With headers I had gasket leaks, rust, and went through starters. They look great new, but, I am not sure they are for me.
You are right in protecting components. They can really fry with headers.

I have seen new cars in the factory melt carpets because of a lean condition and the repairman left the car running to warm it up when he went on a coffee break. cars with the thermactor or air pump system ran extra rich then the air injected into the exhaust continued the burn process. try to fing a good set of Ford 460 passenger car headers, most are burned and cracked. it never made sense to me to burn more fuel for emmision testing but the rules were to read so many parts per million. a lot of fuel burned but at the proper mixture to get a tail pipe reading to pass not how much total polution is produced . some smog tests tech.s. end up adjusting the idle higher to get out of the idle rich circuit to get a car to pass.
A lot of GM starters don't like heat.. if you have a GM Starter, (some were used on Fords, 429 and 460's) you should use the ford fender mounted remote starter relay. most magazines have shown how to do this, also you probably need spark plug wire heat shields with headers,

I have patriot headers on my chevy 210 the starter is 3/4 of an inch from the headers do you guys suggest a shield for that distance Thanks DH

Tim-- I do have the remote starter solenoid and it is mounted on my inner fender well, and I do have the spark plug boot protectors as well. Good minds think alike :D Also, it is a 400 Ford (402 actual) bored .040 making it a 410, running with an SVO cam and about 9.5:1 compression, and Sanderson Headers. It just seems too hot. I'm anxious to see what effect my heat shields will have.

DH-- If I were in your situation, I would for sure get a heat shield cover for the starter. Summit racing has them for about $15-$17.

Thanks 53fatfndr I didn,t know that... I,ll jump overthere soon and check it out.

I have only had headers glow on me one time, and that is when i built a small block WAY to tight. So a polished crank later and the right clearances, everything was golden.

I got a chevy 400 small block heat shield on starter, spark plug boots and header wrap and it isnt any hotter under the hood than when I had manifolds....I think the trick is header wrap....best thing since sliced bread

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Originally posted by stuccoman
I got a chevy 400 small block heat shield on starter, spark plug boots and header wrap and it isnt any hotter under the hood than when I had manifolds....I think the trick is header wrap....best thing since sliced bread

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the only thing about header wrap is that it literally cooks your headers..JHMO..... i got ceramic coated ones they run alot cooler and i can touch them soon after i turn the car off and not worry about going to the hospital with 8th degree burns:whacked:

Stuccoman, how long have you had your header wrap on your headers? I have enough to do my headers, but I've been leary of doing it. However, I would like to get my headers ceramic coated this winter, so I wonder if having header wrap on there for 6 months or so would still be bad for them??? Anybody have any thoughts on that?

I have been running with the header wrap for 2 years now ( summers only) and havnt had any problem at all...I am very pleased with how it keeps the heat down

53fatfndr,
What do you have the timing set at. Slow timing will make the pipes glow like that. They should NEVER get that hot.
Ed

I agree with gassersrule_196 about ceramic coated headers. My father has a set of coated headers on a 350 chevy in his coupe. Whenever he runs his car, the headers are always the first to cool to touch.

Ed, since I richened up the carb settings (needles and jets), the temps have dropped. I no longer have glowing headers, but have just a tinge of red where the pipes touch each other. It's just that too me, they still seem hotter than plain old manifolds. The timing will be played with a little more here. I just got my tranny back and installed and I'm finishing up a few odds and ends and I'm getting close to finally put it on the road. Last summer I thought I was done but the tranny said otherwise ;)

Stuccoman, have you taken your wrap off to get a look at the condition of your tubes? I'm curious as I'm really considering just putting my wrap on for a few months until I can afford the ceramic coating.

I havnt pulled any of the header wrap off and dont really plan to...when I first put it on I was really wondering how long this stuff would stay on,,,but it is summer #2 and it is holding up...as to how the headers are doing...your guess is as good as mine....but I dont think they would be too damaged from heat...

According to what I've read/seen header wrap traps moisture after the engine is shut off & the headers rust out eventually. Not sure how long this process takes.

If you can get more than two years out of an uncoated set of headers you are doing pretty good. Usually they rust out by three years. Coated ones usually have a 5 year warranty on the coating. Could be a lot less with the wrap you speak of.
Part of the reason I put headers on an engine is for looks. Seems kind of pointless to wrap them. They get hot, but not any hotter than manifolds do.
I still say that if your headers are getting a red tinge to them that you probably are running your timing too slow.
Ed

Moisture and eventual rust would concern me. When I ordered my Hooker headers, I turned around and sent them off the Jet Hot. Like ceramic coated, they cool very, VERY quickly. Jet Hot coats inside and out so I would guess making a smooth coating may help flow as well as maybe provide some insulation and it looks VERY nice (I have a recent post in the new guys section). I have had mine for a long time with no rust or discoloration (my car has been garaged forever too, however).
Cheers!
Paul

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Originally posted by Hurst01
53fatfndr,
What do you have the timing set at. Slow timing will make the pipes glow like that. They should NEVER get that hot.
Ed

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Ed, I aplogize for not replying to your question. I must have glanced over it. I have begun to think the timing myself. I went out and checked everything out last night. Base timing is 10 degrees, at idle....800 RPM. Total advance, 4000 rpm, it is 31 degrees. However, I'm wondering if I need more advance, and quicker. The charts for my MSD dizzy have me at 25 degrees advance when the headers glow at 2500 RPM. I've played with carb settings, both ends of the spectrum, really lean to really rich. When lean, it glows quick. When rich, it takes more time to glow. I have an air fuel gauge that has me at full on rich right now. Either way, they are still glowing. Vacuum is 15 inches at idle, it's got a fairly healthy cam. Plugs are pretty black too.

I appreciate any further suggestions. I'm thinking timing now though.

At least in the fuel injected world glowing headers means you are running to rich. The unburnt fuel makes it into the header then is burned inside the tube causing it to glow. I've also heard incorrect valve lash can cause it too. As for wrapping the headers, i bought a set of stainless steel headers that had been wrapped for about a year and they were rusted severly. If they weren't stainless they would of probably been junk. If you want nice, long lasting headers, that run half way cool you need to get them jethot coated. By the way if you go with Jethot headers, make your way over to www.cz28.com and become a member. I'm a member of that site and i think you get 15-20% off getting your headers coated.