Oversize lifter, or center grind lifter to correct size?

Hi there.

My name's Chris. I have been involved in Buick muscle cars since 1989. In 1991 I put a used but happy Buick 455 in my Skylark, and in 1999 I rebuilt it top to bottom.

I have a problem right now that has always been around in this particular engine block, but I didn't know about it until my latest cam swap.

My engine block is a 1974 Buick 455, a "double scallop" block. I had it bored 0.030" over. It had a problem from the factory that nobody but the assembly workers ever knew about, it seems.

While swapping cams, I noted a "C" or possibly an incomplete "O" stamped on a lifter bore. It turns out that I require a 0.010" oversize lifter in that bore, from the factory.

The GM lifter that solves this problem became NLA (no longer available) in 1994. GM North America and GM Europe do not list this part as being in inventory, anywhere

I am a member of the Buick Performance Group, and a fellow member told me he had the same problem once, and had a Ford Small Block lifter taken down to .852~.853" on a centerless grinder


I am very much in need of info on these Ford small block lifters. A technical drawing would be ideal. I need to know what problems I can encounter having this lifter turned down to the correct size.

Also, if anyone happens to have an unused GM hydraulic lifter that is .853", i am interested in buying it. If you have 16, I am interested in buying all 16 so that folks in my club have a solution to this not extremely rare problem

Any info or insight is appreciated

Have you tried approaching any of the aftermarket cam grinders and seeing what they have to offer ?

I called Crane, but after 20 minutes on hold I hung up. My boss was starting to look for me, too...

So to answer your question, yes, but I haven't gotten to talk to anyone just yet. It's definitely an option. The worst they can say is "no"

Tech, zactly what I was thinking... another option may be T/A Performance, they are the Buick gurus apparently

Well, that too is possible long-term, but not for right now, I'm afraid.

However, circumstances right now dictate that this can't be done. The car is outside and suffering in the elements (it's going to snow, too), and the engine is in an unheated garage.

I need the lifter because I simply don't have the timeframe to strip the block down and send it to a machinist. It's an impossibilty now.

I could outline the situation, but the short story is the car has to move, now, and under it's own power, just so I can put it away for the winter

Well, like I said, I could outline the situation from every angle, but really, the car's got to get gone and I am not spending another 130 bucks on a flatbed to move it if I can avoid it. There's a lot of reasons I need this car complete while it's in storage as well. That is the last possibilty I can explore, the one where it goes to storage and the car doesn't run. I do not have heated storage and I do not have convenient storage. It's far away, cold, and in a concrete building. I need to be able to get the car running from time to time, go through the gears, use the heater, brakes, etc, or my time to get the car ready in the spring takes about a month. I've tried that route and it really stinks in my experience


Without those lifters, my lifter galley would not pressurise properly. there's a large galley behind there on each side that feeds each lifter. Each has it's own well and oil passageway that links to the next. I looked at it the other day. Lifters really need to be in there.

In any event, that's not a good way to break in the cam, with 14 lobes broken in only.

Thanks for the suggestions, but the no-lifter option is not one I can explore, and the flatbed takes money out of my pocket that I need for the repair of the vehicle, plus, getting it into my storage with no power is not easy, it's a 4,000 lb car that needs to get pushed basically up a hill in that case, which I have done once and I didn't like it.

Trust me on this one, the easiest solution is to put the engine back together. I need a lifter. :(

Quote:

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Originally posted by stepside454
Tech, zactly what I was thinking... another option may be T/A Performance, they are the Buick gurus apparently

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I am very familiar with TA, I actually talked with Mike last week about my new aluminum heads:)

They don't have oversized lifters

I know it sounds like I'm just shooting down everyone's suggestions, but really, the best way to do this is with a properly sized lifter. I have turned the Buick guy's brains inside out in my club, and the best solution is a lifter that fits. I need info on what lifter can do this. The Ford small block one was cited as a likely substitute if machined...

462cid, back slowly away from the Buick and breath in deep.
Okay, The guy that said to use the SB Ford lifter has never lied to you before and you trust him, right. Go out to the parts store and buy a Ford lifter, take it to the machinist and have it turned. Put the car to gether and your set for the winter.

Yeah I know that is not a hipo lifter, and you will have to do it again come spring, but at least it's running and solves that problem. Now you have all winter to research the lifter problem and find a resolution.

That's the easiest answer I can give you. Don't worry about breaking a new lifter later. Just lube it with break in lube and follow normal break in procedures. Just a voice of old age speaking.
:) :) :) :)

Oh, that's what I want to do, Duane. I know this guy, and I know he's done it and it worked, it just that I want to know what custom size pushrod I'll need; that's why I need specs on this lifter. I have no doubt that the FSB lifter will not work 'as is' after it's resized for my OD, and I want to know what I'm getting into


The fact that the lifter isn't a hi-po part doesn't bother me, I shouldn't ever run this engine over 5500 rpm anyway

I don't know why I'd need to do it again, though, that new lifter is the solution...but I need to know which one I want.

I am not a Ford guy, a Chevy guy or a Mopar guy. I know one engine- the Buick 455. Ford could have 3 dozen small block lifters for all I know.

I want to know wall thickness on the lifter, cup height, cup chape, overall height, etc, etc, etc. I have no confidence in the local parts guy to give me the 'standard' FSB lifter

That's why I'm here, talking to guys who know these other engines:3dSMILE:

Unfortunately, Chris, don't have the specs. But.........If you send me your address to my E-mail, I could go over to my brothers, pull a couple of lifters out of my 302 HO that is setting in his basement and mail them to you so you could measure and maybe even use them. It would take several days to get to you but that is an option available.

Wow do these forums load slowly!


Thanks for the offer Duane! I have a guy in my club who got in touch with an obsolete GM parts guy in the Northwest who might have the correct part number for me. My toes are crossed. Why Buick let these blocks out the door is beyond me...I talked to Crane Cams, and their helpful suggestion was 1) Bush the block or 2) throw away the block. Gee, thanks, and I'll buy your products why, exactly, Mr. Crane Helpguy?

Your offer is very kind but my reserve plan is to get two FSB lifters, and cut one in half, and then take one of my old GM stock lifters and cut it in half, and compare side wall thickness. A custom or adjustable pushrod should do the rest if I can't get this GM part and the FSB lifter can actually be machined down. I trust this guy in my club, but I also suspect he had his lifter galley braced, girdled, and epoxied, and probably bushed, because he runs a Buick 455 bored to 538:whacked:

I have some pics of the motor with my spiffy new TA aluminum Stage 1 heads that I'll post later on. At least you'll get to see it. I might even get to start it up some day:)

Cool, Chris, sounds like you got a handle on it. Your idea of cutting one into was exactly why I mentioned send you two. Great minds think alike, i guess. Wish you the best of luck.

Here's some pics

garage is really messy; I had no choice but to work on it here

This is a nice shot of how stock the TA Aluminum Stage1 heads look on the outside

The offending lifter bore. Red line points to barely visible stamping on the outside of the bore. Nobody seems to know if it's a "C" or an incomplete "O". Man is that garage a dump. It's my fault, too:D

Note the circular thingee in the center of the head where the heat exchange passage should be. It's a sealed socket head cap screw. If I unscrew it, which I will, the hot air passage in my manifold becomes a coolant crossover. TA spent some time on the design of these heads, really quality pieces

The important stuff:3dSMILE: These are from the factory, untouched intake ports. All I did was bolt on the heads. These heads are worth about 50 hp over standard iron Stage1 heads, and about 60 hp over the '73 smog heads I took off.

This is my car, from a few years ago. I had all the trim off for new paint. I can almost remember what it's like to put the top down and drive. I wrecked this car 13 days after I bought it in '89, and rebuilt it as a GS455 clone. It's been a daily driver for me since then

Correct oversize lifters have been located and are on their way.

Thanks all for your help, offers, and suggestions :D