sb ford firing order

:confused:ok on my build when I bought the engine last summer I heard it run for like 25 minutes sounded good didn't smoke knock etc etc got it back to the shop and started to clean it up it only had 89k on the odm. so im running a cross ram the stock dizzy wouldn't fit so I popped the cap off and marked where the rotor was pointing with yellow tape and pulled the wires off and the plugs out ,there taped all the holes closed ..jump to july of this yr I got the new dizzy out of ebay from white performance. put it in the motor with the rotor pointing where I had it taped and left it.... so I didn't mess with it till yesterday after I got the motor and trans set into the frame me in my genius wisdom didn't take any pictures of the plug wires, so I goggled sb ford firing order mmmm #1 cylinder fires on the right side unlike a sbc motor. but the timing mark in facing the bottom of engine so I use a coat hanger wire to see when the piston comes up, (all the plugs are out so its fairly easy to turn) when the timing mark is on tdc the #1 piston is down and #5 piston is up I hand cranked it 4, 5 maybe 6 rotations same thing. how the hell was it running did they just switch the wires around???? I guess I have to take the timing cover off to see whats going on but will doing this damage the pan gasket?i put on a new pan and gasket cant remember if I used sealer or not dam it tares the gasket this will turn into a dam nightmare... or can I wire it so its running in this firing order :confused:::confused::confused:

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Originally Posted by DennyW

Ford 260 289 302 5.0 V8 Engine Specs | Torque Specs - Cylinder Numbering - Firing Order - Distributor Rotation

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its sb ford 302 firing order 15426378 counter clockwise rotation

302 High Performance, and 351 used a different firing order from the low performance 289 - 302 - different cam grinds. Maybe you have a HP, or a HP/351W cam got put in there.

Ford 5.0L / 302 HO and 351W Firing Order | GTSparkplugs

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well the motor came out of a f150 truck and the number 1 cylinder is still first on right side. At TDC the number 5 cylinder is up... thats the cylinder across from the #1 on the left side

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Originally Posted by wayneo777

ford firing order mmmm #1 cylinder fires on the right side unlike a sbc motor. but the timing mark in facing the bottom of engine so I use a coat hanger wire to see when the piston comes up, (all the plugs are out so its fairly easy to turn) when the timing mark is on tdc the #1 piston is down and #5 piston is up

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You can not be on TDC #1 if number 1 piston is down. Check you balancer for slippage and or the pointer in wrong location.
Find compression on #1, then find TDC on #1 (while still on compression stroke), that is TDC compression stroke no mater what the balancer marks say. If your balancer is not damaged (rings slipped), you could relocate your pointer to align correctly with the balancer, or remark your balancer to the pointer. Run your firing order from this corrected location, time the motor and go. Of course, this assumes everything else is correct in the motor.

DennyW beat me to the punch...

DennyW & 36 sedan are giving you the right advice. It's not likely that your dampner was changed, but mine on the street rod (scratch build, new dampner) has three different sets of marks stamped into the ring, with the "right" one marked in red paint. Set the engine to #1TDC compression and see where you are. You might be looking at the wrong reference point on the front cover, too.

the engine and trans are setting in the frame plugs out, and valve covers off the starter is in place but have no wires hooked up yet.ill check the damper for different marks or slipage. but yeah the timing line on the damper is at the bottom when the#1up ... as stated i put a small coat hanger wire to tell when the piston was up and both valves closed
the timing marker bolts to the right side of the engine, where i took it off from. i didnt know the damper could slide but ill check that too.worse comes to worse ill have to repalce the chain and gears i was planing on just leaving the motor bone stock but hell if i gotta change the gears might as well put a cam and new lifters in

Before you start disassembling things, do a compression test. If the compression is good, more than likely it is just the timing alignment at the balancer.

My new Ford 429 longblock, never lined up on the harmonic balancer. The old balance marks were way of from the new longblock assemble. I then bought an after market balancer with the same problem. Follow Denny's advice, it worked for me!

thanks for all the replies ill do some more checking on it, I just might be over looking something. hey i didnt throw any wrenchs yet,, so thats a good thing right?:D

I once had a dickens of a time starting a motor, when I had the cap wired clockwise, instead of ccw. It's also useful to look at a picture of the cylinder numbers. Usually the most forward cylinder is #1, and that bank is all odd #s, but I wouldn't assume they all do it like that.

That is a good thing, I usually just choose choice adjectives and usually get a band aid for the bloody knuckle coated in engine grime! :) ;)

Good to see a post with some related data Denny------------Your library of that stuff rivals the Library of Congress

Not sure if it will help you or not, but this is a picture of the timing pointer on a bone stock 1990 F150 302, passenger front, just below #1 cylinder.

Attachment 64431

yes that's the same pointer, and the same spot on my 302.
so if the#1 piston is up and both valve closed and I put the dist in with the rotor so it is pointing on the #1 post. the damper should be as shown in pic,, simple basic stuff .but if not . I can mark the damper with yellow or white paint where it is and use this as a new timing mark,and rotate this a few times to make sure this where it is at all time then the damper has moved and needs to be replaced, if it moved that much id hate to have come apart at any rpm I should be able to start this like this ..????

I recommend a compression test first before going any further.

If it were mine, I'd bring it around to #1 compression, bring the piston up to TDC and check the marks on the damper against the pointer. If they're not close then something's wrong. Could be the damper's de-laminated and the outer ring's slipped. Could be the timing chain jumped. Could be you missed the distributor position by a tooth or two when you put the new one in place. Doing a compression check is a good step, but I'd start with the basics first and get your timing marks right even before I tried that. Just my $0.02 and how I'd attack it. If your dampers de-laminated, or if your timing jumped a tooth or two you don't want to simply re-mark the damper and try to use it. Again, just my humble opinion.

TDC is the position of the piston, nothing can change that short of a broken crank. The cams timing will change valve opening /closing and can effect compression, but will not change TDC. Distributor placement will change spark timing in relationship to compression, but again will not change TDC.
If TDC is on #1 at the compression stroke (both valves closed) and the timing marks at the balancer do not align, either the balancer has slipped or the wrong balancer pointer combination are in place. Also a broken key on the crank can cause this.
However, a compression test will tell us the health of the combustion chambers in this engine and let us know if we are chasing our tails. Thus my recommendation. IMHO, a compression test should be the first thing done to an unknown motor...

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Originally Posted by 36 sedan

TDC is the position of the piston, nothing can change that short of a broken crank. The cams timing will change valve opening /closing and can effect compression, but will not change TDC. Distributor placement will change spark timing in relationship to compression, but again will not change TDC.
If TDC is on #1 at the compression stroke (both valves closed) and the timing marks at the balancer do not align, either the balancer has slipped or the wrong balancer pointer combination are in place. Also a broken key on the crank can cause this.
However, a compression test will tell us the health of the combustion chambers in this engine and let us know if we are chasing our tails. Thus my recommendation. IMHO, a compression test should be the first thing done to an unknown motor...

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36 sedan, you're 100% right and I went too far with the distributor position & timing chain statement. Thanks for correcting my mistake.

Since the plugs are out-I'd do the oil squirt recommended by Denny, do a compression test or cylinder leakage test on all cylinders, then do a positive stop method of checking the EXACT tdc and marks on the dampner. Once and if- verified-I'd put the distributor in with rotor of course at the number one 10*btdc and locate it with the reluctor wheel spline lined up exactly centered with the sensor. ( IIRC there is aprox 14* in the width of the sensor and it triggers in the middle as the magnetic field reverses and is fairly easy to center it-might take a little neck/head leaning/bending- and put the correct wire in the correct hole on the cap----------

I would do the compression test first without the oil. Then if compression is low add the oil to determine wether rings or valves causing low compression, oil will temporarily seal rings and raise the compression if rings are worn.
JMHO

Plugs out over a year I would add oil for lubing the walls and rings-----only 89 k miles rings will still be good-----However------since the plugs are out-I would do a cylinder leakage test-checks valves, gaskets for leakage-altho I don't think its necessary for this engine----
The main point of my post was to do a POSITIVE stop method of checking accuracy of the dampner marks and correcting it if necessary-then how to accurately install the dist so the timing is correctly set to +/- ONE DEGREE of where I'd want it-------and to properly/accurately route and install the plug wires to the cap and plugs-------put in a new set of properly gapped plugs, spray a bit of starting fluid into intake and lite 'er off-----------------------
extra dashes from kinky finger

Good point, I had lost track of the motor setting for a year.

well i got everythingl ined up but the damper stills points towards to floor pulled it apart timing ups line up, @1 piston is up, alves are closed key is ok in the crankshaft so the damper did slide but its its weighed ill gave to replace it not sure if it would run likre that and wouldnt want to use it anyway

Ford has a 28 and a 50 oz dampner weight spec-make sure you get the correct one-also-did you get the original flywheel with the engine?? they are counter weighted also---------and if the ring has slipped, it could be as a result of the wrong balance weight parts causing a severe vibration and trying to damp out the shake caused the ring to slide.

Getting the damper rebuilt is also an option. Some prefer it.

ok so im checking ebay for prices i see the same one as mine but this one has degree numbers on the thin side of the balancer which is where the key slot is located. but the scribed line is on the weighted thicker side of the balancer.. the guy who posted the pic of his with the pointer and the line spin that around and see if there are numbers also . wtf is ford thinking.. i dont think the timing mark would or could slide 1/2 way around the balancer w/o coming completely apart.**)

ok ill check my balancer to see if mine has these degree numbers .so then what is the scribed line used for???? when i line that up to the pointer everything is off .....
man i should have used a sbc engine

In Rogers post 19 pic the notch(which you are referring to as a scribed line) can be seen and actually its for triggering a electronic sensor for a shop testor that got installed into that little round hole on the bracket.

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Originally Posted by wayneo777

.... the guy who posted the pic of his with the pointer and the line spin that around and see if there are numbers also .

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Wayne,
I'm sorry if my earlier picture confused you. I was simply giving you a visual of the pointer bolted to the block, in relation to the dampner. I didn't even notice the alignment of the pointer to the heavy groove on the thick part of the balancer, which has nothing to do with the timing reference but is an electronic trigger reference as Jerry noted. This picture is not the best, as it's pitch black out by the barn out here in the country, and trying to get a decent flash picture in total darkness is a trip, but if you look closely you'll see the timing numbers stamped into the thin part of the harmonic balancer, just like the picture that DennyW posted.

Attachment 64498

well well well my mistake I was using the line as the timing mark yeah this is the first time using a ford engine thanks for all input, now its out there if some else new to ford has the same trouble. chevy uses the line like that and has the number on the pointer..... boy do I feel like a horses ass or what:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Hey it happens, anyone that says they have never done anything similar is a -----, well you know.
Glad you got it sorted out!

Wayne, everyone makes mistakes, and those with character admit when they're wrong and grow from the experience. I hope that you'll stick around and continue to post as you work through your project.

So Wayne, what's the project that this engine is going into? You mentioned earlier that the engine & tranny were sitting in the frame, but so far no mention of the project? Just curious... Maybe a new thread, perhaps in the Build Logs?

there are a few pics posted under my build logs
scoll down about 1/2 way u will see it
i think it will beat lead foot bailer

here are a few pics