Vortec setup OR roller rockers?

Hi,

I'm hoping I can get some basic advise here. I have got a few options in my garage and am wanting to get the most bang out of what I have.

I have A 1974 355 SBC two bolt main with flat top pistons
I have some Vortec heads with stock springs, cam and rockers. OR I have some older 882 heads that have the Erson TQ40 cam set up on them: .472/.472 lift with Erson roller rockers, rods ect.

I also have some 305 heads(354434) that I could use and an old 327 cam and the stock cam out of a 76 Malibu.

both setups would have an Elelbrock intakes and 600cfm Carb. I read that the Vortecs are awesome and achieve maximum port flow around .400 lift so if I modify the Vortecs it will be screw in studs and stronger springs only - probably not going to increase the lift. I'm shooting for around 400hp and it will be a street car. (71 Skylark)

knowledgeable help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

My vote is for the Vortec heads with the following qualifiers - they need to be crack free and have a good three angle valve job done at a quality machine shop. So you'll need to take them in and have them magnafluxed and if they're okay, deck them, get a good three angle grind done, taps the studs and go with your new springs (and maybe a few valves?) and viola - great set of heads. Before you get the work done however; price the finished product and consider the next paragraph-

You may want to at least look at the offering from Edelbrock where you could get aluminum heads that are CNC designed and newer technology, close to the same flow numbers as Vortecs, new springs, guide plates, screw-in studs, hardened spring seats, stainless valves for under a grand ready to go. No muss, no fuss - See: Edelbrock 5089 - Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Just sayin'

Others will chime in - let us know what you come up with and welcome to CHR!
Glenn

Looking over your choices, the 883s are out to many problems no flo aka smog heads. Vortex design is a better bet the roller rockers may fit check the rocker stud size. A used cam is a gamble, need to know exactly what lifer was run on which lobe. If you do not know count on a cam failure, cam and lifter kits are reasonable.

My tq40 roller rockers won't work- vortecs need "slim" rollers and they also need to be self-guiding.

I'm prob going to buy a new cam like Glenn suggested, but still looking around for best street performance. 500hp at 4mpg isn't realistic for something I want to cruise with. I guess my only real goal is to be quicker than a run-of-the-mill mustang and maybe a hair faster than my brother's 72 nova. I know he's 500lbs lighter than my skylark. But he's not going to run vortecs.

Comp cam 262 is looking good. I also noticed the factory vortec cam has no fuel pump lobe. (details)

Yes the aluminum heads are great - a bit out of my price range though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alexm

My tq40 roller rockers won't work- vortecs need "slim" rollers and they also need to be self-guiding.

I'm prob going to buy a new cam like Glenn suggested, but still looking around for best street performance. 500hp at 4mpg isn't realistic for something I want to cruise with. I guess my only real goal is to be quicker than a run-of-the-mill mustang and maybe a hair faster than my brother's 72 nova. I know he's 500lbs lighter than my skylark. But he's not going to run vortecs.

Comp cam 262 is looking good. I also noticed the factory vortec cam has no fuel pump lobe. (details)

Yes the aluminum heads are great - a bit out of my price range though.

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Lots of used one's for sale, seen a number of very reasonably priced sets of aluminum heads on Racing Junk, might want to take a look! Money is tight, people are selling off extra parts cheap!

Lots of used one's for sale, seen a number of very reasonably priced sets of aluminum heads on Racing Junk, might want to take a look! Money is tight, people are selling off extra parts cheap!

Pardon my ignorance where is "race Junk" is it on this site somewhere and I just can't find it?

Try RacingJunk.com

At the end of the day,I don't think roller rockers on a street vehicle means a whole heck of alot.

Either does a stroker motor, blower, flamed paint, side pipes, big fat cheaters or a load of other speed parts, but we still put them on and in and enjoy the hell out of the ride. Cause when you stick your foot in it the push down in the seat is well worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angrystroker

Either does a stroker motor, blower, flamed paint, side pipes, big fat cheaters or a load of other speed parts, but we still put them on and in and enjoy the hell out of the ride. Cause when you stick your foot in it the push down in the seat is well worth it.

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Nope,we are talking about roller rockers alone,eh??.

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Originally Posted by 34_40

Try RacingJunk.com

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Thanks for putting the link on, I probably should have done that, huh????:LOL::LOL:

Roller rockers are just one of many options that can be considered when someone is starting a build. His post seems to indicate he in the process of doing that. Given the fact that he has the rockers sitting right there it would be foolish not to use them.

Little seemingly unimportant modifications here and there add up, it is the combination or sum total that produces results, there is no one magic bullet.

Really not in for a long debate here.Builds do and should be about a tailor built engine considering expectations and the parts combined together."Significant" gains or not relate to that.Application of those parts also are a part of that output.Sooooooooooo,in some cases some parts do hurt the output too.If it is a matter of a drag race engine and you need to ring out every ounce of power,that is certainly a worth while endeavor,but if it is a shiny ad campaign and a effort to be like a race car operation when the parts in use are not even close to the race engine,that sir is something completely different.I for good reason doubt a street driven car driver with a blind test could honestly tell me a sensitive butt dyno improvement using roller rockers.No,in fact I know he couldn't.

It hasn't changed at all.Talk about Vortec heads from a pick and pull,recondition them,mill them,etc,ect, and really don't have the performance of the aftermarket heads nor really don't save that much.So like as I saying, it hasn't changed that much...............how fast do you want to go and how much do you want to spend??. For yrs it has been the same way.Oh yeah.GM has labeled a whole bunch of stuff Vortec and some of it is smog junk.

Just one more comment.If it where a matter of a compression ratio that dictates much about cam choices,spring pressures needed because of that cam choice, correct intake runner sizes,exhaust system because of all the above,a connected dots build where the big picture show a benefit to roller rockers,then I am all about that.Other than that.....................nope.

He asked for advise and that is what is given here.

i HAVE A FRIEND THAT BUILDS STREET ENGINGES. HE TOLD ME THAT AFTER USING MOST OF THE SBC ALUMINUM HEADS AVAILABLE THAT HE DISCOVERED THAT THE ELDEBROCK ALUMINUM HEADS WHEN TORN DOWN CHECK OUT WITH ALL THE CORRECT SPECIFICATIONS EVERY TIME. HE SAYS THAT THE ELDEBROCK HEADS ARE THE ONLY HEADS TO CHECK OUT LIKE THIS. SO YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN SOME GREAT ADVISE GARYS GEARBOX

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Originally Posted by Muncieman

i HAVE A FRIEND THAT BUILDS STREET ENGINGES. HE TOLD ME THAT AFTER USING MOST OF THE SBC ALUMINUM HEADS AVAILABLE THAT HE DISCOVERED THAT THE ELDEBROCK ALUMINUM HEADS WHEN TORN DOWN CHECK OUT WITH ALL THE CORRECT SPECIFICATIONS EVERY TIME. HE SAYS THAT THE ELDEBROCK HEADS ARE THE ONLY HEADS TO CHECK OUT LIKE THIS. SO YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN SOME GREAT ADVISE GARYS GEARBOX

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First off-please turn off the caps.That is interpreted as yelling.Edelbrock does build a good product.But to make a blanket statement like that isn't accurate.How did your street engine builder come to that conclusion??.Does he have the equipment,flow bench,test for for what he is saying??.Hell RHS builds one waling aluminum head as so many other companies do.Bottom line I have my doubts the ONLY Edelbrock check out.Seems some limited experience is coming into play.Short of tie-ing in Edelbrock's $3,500 EFI system with the heads my ref to them as been a mid moderate kind of mod.

I went with Vortec heads, Erson TQ-40 cam and the flat-top pistons I got the higher pressure z28 drop-in springs and .035 up locks for the valve stems to compensate for the new lift in the Vortec heads. I also splurged and got a 3hp mini starter. After I had the block all the way together on the stand I realized something was not right with the rotating assembly. Turns out a rod stud was bent and was causing it to bind up the crank. I went to the guys at Accurate engine and got a new crank, bearings and a replacement rod. Now it's back together and I started it up and it seems to be running pretty strong. The increased compression is very noticeable and the Edelbrock 1405 is plenty good as is with standard jets and metering rods. So far I'm pretty happy with the build and I figure 400 hp is a good target. It is hard to tell anything from a stand run so I'll have a friend at Lincoln tech dyno the car after the engine is in and broken in. if it isn't obvious from the pic I have a dual plane intake and some worthless chrome pan and chain covers that don't add any performance numbers but make me happy anyway. also my brother is planning on running almost the same exact setup on his 72 nova with a 327 that he is putting a five speed overdrive transmission in from an 80s pickup truck. Attachment 53790

nice photo is that a test ? water pump is on upside down

Wowzer zowzer - you're going to have some kinda fun with the cooling on this engine - I hope you did a better job on the inside than the outside as I believe the water pump is... well... upside down?

Not to worry guys just having a little fun with you.----- I didn't even put the seals on the pump. Nice to know people have attention to details. I don't think anybody would do this for real because the water galley holes don't even line up.

Update- my brother and I have had the engine in for about four months and it is a roaring beast! I can't believe how just a few mods can make that much difference. Seat of the pants is great -the rear tires burn out and won't quit until I am going halfway up second. I think the up-locks are a success on the vortecs or I would have seen a bent valve by now. It is great to know that my 350 did vortecs on the cheap without any machine work and no "ghetto grind". I think my total engine investment is under $800.

Next step will most likely be a manual od transmission but what I'm reading looks pretty bad. T5 is too weak even the "world class" won't hold 400hp. Np3500 is still a bit weak, expensive to repair and geared for a truck. Np4500 is heavy,bulky and geared wrong too. Saginaws and Muncies aren't od trannies. So what's left? A very expensive t56 swap . . . . Is there anything else? I have always loved c-bop for easy repairs and affordable parts please chime in if you have a workaround idea. Thanks!!!

I've seen some of the TKO 5 speeds hitting the used market for a reasonable price, new they're a bit over $2k. There's usually one or two showing up on Racing Junk used, never know what you could pick one up for from the right guy on the day he's really short on $$$$$$$!!!

Ok so obviously I have been busy. new job-got married and sold my 1971 Cutlass and two dune buggies. . but on to the good stuff . I put in a WC-T5 out of a 1990 5.0 camaro off CL for $200.00. I had to do some fab work to make the master cylinder work and got it a new clutch/pressure plate/flywheel. The gearing seemed pretty low and starting from a dead stop was a PITA. I did some research on the Corporate 10bolt 8.5 and found that I had 2.56 gears. I was then on the hunt for a posi unit with some 3.08 gears or up to 4.11 gears. I think I got lucky and found a Torsen posi unit on ebay that could ONLY go on non c-clip axles. which is BOP only. Lots of research before I put my money down. My brother has the lift so I drove 20 miles to his house. I have never rebuilt a rear end before so I looked up how to do that. long story short I did the shims new seals and pinion gear and drove it home. What a difference!! the posi unit came with a 3.42 ring gear so I'm doing 1900 Rpm at 60 MPH. (that is just about exactly what my TH350 and 2.56 gears were doing)

Thanks to every one leaving stories of how they did their projects and being able to search for just about anything you need to know really makes it all possible. Thanks for all those that have gone before me.