Pro Top Line Heads??? Input needed!

Hey everyone... so after a ton of reading and google searches, I decided to have my motor built by a pretty reputable shop in my area. I'm having my '86 302 rebuilt and the bottom end is about done, but not quite sure what to do for the heads. The guy building my motor is recomending the Pro Top line heads (a la carte) and he will be choosing all the other misc. parts to assemble within that platform. I did a bit of research and I keep seeing mixed opinions on the heads. Some people say they are crap, and others swear by them. The guy building my motor recomends them and he has no vested interest in the heads as I'll be purchasing all the parts my self and then bringing them to him. He recomends the aluminum 180 runners. Was originally gonna go with TFS heads, but not sure now. Any input would be greatly appreciated as I don't wanna waste $ on heads that will go to crap after 3k miles. Thanks!

With as many head choices as we have today, you need to take a hard look at these heads even if your engine guy says they are cool. I looked around some and found out the following I believe it is correct.

The Pro Top Line heads are cast in China then shipped to New Zealand for machine work. Only problem with this that I can see is the China heads (and there are several brands) don't have any "Verifiable" quality controls in the casting process. They DO NOT have a minium standered for the process itself nor for the alloy. Another words you get what you get, but you don't ever know for sure what that is. I would have no problem at all with the KIWI's doing the machine work.

There are several really good heads on the market. Granted the American heads are far from cheap, but is that actually true if you have to do the job more than once because in the process of trying to save a little money you bought a sub-standered part? Good Luck !!

RS

If you've got a roller cam 302 the Edelbrock Performer RPM's are good heads. If you have a flat tappet cam, the E Streets are good one for the money. I have the RPM's on my 331 and love them. They seem to breathe really well.

Don

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Originally Posted by Hombre259

With as many head choices as we have today, you need to take a hard look at these heads even if your engine guy says they are cool. I looked around some and found out the following I believe it is correct.

The Pro Top Line heads are cast in China then shipped to New Zealand for machine work. Only problem with this that I can see is the China heads (and there are several brands) don't have any "Verifiable" quality controls in the casting process. They DO NOT have a minium standered for the process itself nor for the alloy. Another words you get what you get, but you don't ever know for sure what that is. I would have no problem at all with the KIWI's doing the machine work.

There are several really good heads on the market. Granted the American heads are far from cheap, but is that actually true if you have to do the job more than once because in the process of trying to save a little money you bought a sub-standered part? Good Luck !!

RS

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well no the PRO TOP LINE head s were a true KIWI head .at one time part of the biggest builder of heads for OEM re builders .the pro top line part was pick up by comp cam now under RHS heads .there is another head see them on E bay them are the Procomp heads are casted over in china and machine in austrailia or all work is done in china ship to austrailia for a better pedigree and sold under many names . the head it self needs some work to alot of work but some have made them work they say they have upgraded the head s but will not tell me what they have fixed so i not buying any .... the big deal with procomp heads the bbc was the port it was a 1/2 a$$ size and you had to use a head gasket with a 4.625 fire ring even it you have a 4.310 bore or a small er bore but added time on some so/so heads most of the time i buy darts .as for now and how much is casted in china that is now hard to say holley has gone this way on there weiand line

For a SBF Ford it's hard to beat the Trick Flow heads,Ford Racing also has an aluminum version of the GT-40's at a fair price.

With regard to the pro top line heads...that what I'm confused about...how do I know which are made in china and whic are the original "better quality" heads. THE confusion alone is making me leans towards the tfs heads....we'll see what happens.... any more input would be great.

don't the trick flow need a valve notch in a different location??

Pat, I will of course defer to your expertise I know for a fact you actually do know what you are talking about. Now Pat with that said, I did quite a bit of looking around at the "Pro Top Line" head not to be confused with Procomp. Everything I read says that these heads were in fact China cast and machined in New Zealand. I know abut the Aussie thing and Procomp but I think this is a whole nuther deal.

The problem "I" think and that would be if there is a problem is with the China casting of these heads. In China there is no quality standered, no control by anyone other than the foundry as to what they put in there alloy. One batch will have components XYZ and the next batch could very well be WLS with a little P stuck in there to just make volumn on that batch. No controls what so ever.

As an example: I shoot competively in a sport called BPCRS or Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette. This is a shooting discipline using the old Single Shot Rifles from the Buffalo Era. One of the requriments of this sport is you must shoot hand cast bullets. I always used a mixture of lead and tin that was 40 to 1. That is 40 parts pure lead to 1 part tin. I bought my alloy from a Co in Oklahoma, City. Lead has gotten very expensive, I was shooting a 45-90 caliber Sharps Rifle and the bullets weigh 680grains each, but me personaly I am staying with what I know for all of my match shooting. However when you are shooting Matches and Practice and shooting 1,000 mininum bullets a week it gets a little costly. So like many other shooters I tried shooting "Wheel Weight" alloy. Well I was spending a lot of time casting and started to feel not so well some of the time right after a casting session. This didn't happen ever when casting my 40 to 1 bullets' just the wheel weight alloy. Turns out that almost all wheel weights today come from China, lead casting on a commercial basis is almost a thing of the past here in the US. I sent a sample of my wheel weight alloy to a lab in Bakersfield to see what was in them. Turns out in the sample I sent there were 118 different chemicals in that alloy. Stuff like Chromum, Arsenic, at least a dozen different types of acids etc, etc. I stopped using them right then and have never had a problem since.

There are no standareds in China like there are here. They may have the best molds for casting heads there are, there designers may be the best in the world I would not know if they are or are not. But without controls or at least some quality control as to what the put in that mold the end product is always going to be a little Iffy.

Roland

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Originally Posted by Hombre259

Pat, I will of course defer to your expertise I know for a fact you actually do know what you are talking about. Now Pat with that said, I did quite a bit of looking around at the "Pro Top Line" head not to be confused with Procomp. Everything I read says that these heads were in fact China cast and machined in New Zealand. I know abut the Aussie thing and Procomp but I think this is a whole nuther deal.

The problem "I" think and that would be if there is a problem is with the China casting of these heads. In China there is no quality standered, no control by anyone other than the foundry as to what they put in there alloy. One batch will have components XYZ and the next batch could very well be WLS with a little P stuck in there to just make volumn on that batch. No controls what so ever.

As an example: I shoot competively in a sport called BPCRS or Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette. This is a shooting discipline using the old Single Shot Rifles from the Buffalo Era. One of the requriments of this sport is you must shoot hand cast bullets. I always used a mixture of lead and tin that was 40 to 1. That is 40 parts pure lead to 1 part tin. I bought my alloy from a Co in Oklahoma, City. Lead has gotten very expensive, I was shooting a 45-90 caliber Sharps Rifle and the bullets weigh 680grains each, but me personaly I am staying with what I know for all of my match shooting. However when you are shooting Matches and Practice and shooting 1,000 mininum bullets a week it gets a little costly. So like many other shooters I tried shooting "Wheel Weight" alloy. Well I was spending a lot of time casting and started to feel not so well some of the time right after a casting session. This didn't happen ever when casting my 40 to 1 bullets' just the wheel weight alloy. Turns out that almost all wheel weights today come from China, lead casting on a commercial basis is almost a thing of the past here in the US. I sent a sample of my wheel weight alloy to a lab in Bakersfield to see what was in them. Turns out in the sample I sent there were 118 different chemicals in that alloy. Stuff like Chromum, Arsenic, at least a dozen different types of acids etc, etc. I stopped using them right then and have never had a problem since.

There are no standareds in China like there are here. They may have the best molds for casting heads there are, there designers may be the best in the world I would not know if they are or are not. But without controls or at least some quality control as to what the put in that mold the end product is always going to be a little Iffy.

Roland

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you need to find some old lead water pipe they used it . i think they pulled it all up here in town .i was told it was water not sure. i had a chunk heavy wall 2inchs ID foot of it was about 20 pounds . that sounds like fun roland . i use to go out shooting 30/30 and 22 s last time i was shooting in doors they had glock days. i all most took one them gap 45s home. i would like to build a black powder gun some day right now i playing around building a guitar

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Originally Posted by JeffB2

For a SBF Ford it's hard to beat the Trick Flow heads,Ford Racing also has an aluminum version of the GT-40's at a fair price.

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Jeff-Trick Flow are also a off shore casting and machined off shore.Just like the company named "Patriot" who are both off shore and machined off shore that had casting issues and where sticking it the dealers for the returns with no reimbursements.First off I don't like a company that uses a name that they aren't and then scamming the dealers.It's just bad business.I don't mind buying good product off shore,but from what I found is if you spend more,in some cases you do really get more.It is kind of dis-hearting to see over the yrs of hot rodding guys always looking for the cheap answer and not willing to invest any research,themself's,or a understanding that this sport even doing your own work is certainly not cheap.A lot of head companies out there???.Sure are and many of them are junk.

I've always put the priority on value instead of price.... I know if I have a problem with made in the US heads like Edelbrock, either the distributor or the dealer will make things right..... Edelbrock is in it's third generation as a performance parts manufacturer and I truly believe the company (and Vic hisself) takes a lot of pride in their customer service, warranty, and tech assisitance.

I guess if an import cylinder head manufacturer could offer all those things I'd consider their product.... Til then, I prefer my parts to be made in the USA... No big flag waving patriotic thing for me, but I guess I'd rather see my $$$$$ circulating in this country vs. some foreign country...... Also, company's like Edelbrock have some very high tech R&D folks making their products work correctly, the imports are nothing more then a copy and in many instances a very poor copy!!!!

As for the Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, I've ran a number of sets on Windsor's and have a set on a Big Block Ford now....460, .030 overbore, mild roller cam, and out of the box heads puts 500 hp to the ground.... Hard to beat for the price!!!!

Dave

No big flag waving patriotic thing?

A few visions come to mind----Dave running a fart can car
Dave moving to Mexico because its warmer than Texas


AS for the Edelbrocks---429cj heads would make that power also but the Edelbrocks are much lighter

The first set I ordered for my sbf were the Edelbrock E Streets and they came in, but something was bugging me. Nowhere in the Summit ad did it say they were for a roller cam engine, so I called Edelbrock. They told me the E Streets were for flat tappet cams only, so Summit took them back and I bought the Performer RPM heads. I've been very impressed with them and the little tags they send in the box proudly say "Made in the USA."

While some of the offshore ones may be fine, it is nice to be able to dial Edelbrock up on the phone and get someone who speaks good English and knows what he is talking about. I don't mean that to be any slam against any other country, but when I got my first computer the tech lines went to India, and I had to keep asking the customer service guy to repeat himself because I couldn't understand what he was telling me. :confused: Sometimes I would just pretend I understood what he was saying so I wouldn't insult him.:(

For the money I think the Edelbrocks do everything a guy could want on the street.

Don