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So I have a 302 block and crank that came out of a 1971 Mercury Comet. Is that a Good block? I also have a set of 351 cleveland 2V heads off of a 400M out of a 1976 LTD. I was told the 2V cleveland heads are best for street use is this right? Also will the stock 302 rods work or do i need the 289 rods? any more info would be great. Thanks
The block is about good as any of them, might as well use the one you have. 302 rods are good, depending on how hard you're going to run it might want consider a set of aftermarket rods and pistons. Yup on the 2V heads, great setup for the street. You will need to do some work on the water passages in them, if you do a google search for "302 Clevor heads" and some research you should be able to come up with the drawing and measurements.... I've got a copy of it someplace around here but you could more then likely find it faster on a search then I could dig it out of my pile of "important stuff"!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:
You are suppossed to use a 289 rod in a clever motor with a cleveland type piston.
The 2V heads are better for the street, but if money is not an issue I would go with the after market head that Dave Severson metioned on here before.
It's alot better breathing head with both bottom and top end, In other words the best of both worlds. But they are about $2,000 for a set of those. Here is the thread by Dave Severson on the heads, this is the link below.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45458
Kurt
I considered doing a Clevor build once. In days gone by, when good Windsor aftermarket heads were not available, the Clevors were a trick affordable and effective alternative. Now you have good Windsor options. To my memory, if you do not use too big of a cam and are not wanting high compression, you can stay with the stock 302 rods & pistons. The only machining is drilling different water passages in the block surface of the head and tapping and plugging an existing one. You will also want a Clevleand camshaft which requires the 351 firing order rather than the older 289/302 firing order. B&A I think made a specific manifold to fit directly with these heads to make things simpler. Some of them are supposed to still be around. Edelbrock is making Clevor heads and manifolds. Check Summit Racing and enter “Clevor”. That will take you to the heads and manifolds. Or you could call Edelbrock. Don’t forget though, you still have to use Cleveland style exhaust manifolds or headers.
The few folks who I know who built the Clevors were happy with them. Another head options for a Clevor is the Aussie head which flows a little better than the 2v Cleveland head and has a better combustion chamber with about 64cc chambers. They are much cheaper, roughly about $450 pr., than aluminum heads and offer good performance. Aus Ford Parts still sell them and are good folks to help you. 503 804 3117, sales@AusFordParts.com. They also sell those neat old heavier duty Australian Cleveland blocks.
The canted valve heads, also used on the big block Chevys, flow well. And the wide base of the heads make the engine look vicious, like the old hemi heads on the Mopars did. Clevors have done very well in the Engine Masters competitions. Your Clevor project is worth giving thought to. Let us know what you do.
Rick
I would like to thank everyone
easiest thing to do.....
trick flow heads, good cam, 4v intake and a holley.
It'll cost more than you want, but you'll certainly beat him easily.
no new parts
i knew i had posted my "bogus Boss " buildup some time ago .. it just took a bit to find it .. here is hoe i did sorta what you want to do and i didn`t spend any money either ,, all the stuff was from junkpile motors
this engine sounds like one of johnny cash,s song if you have ever heard (one piece at a time) the song where over about a thirty year period he brings home a cadilac car one piece at a time in his lunch box and put it together in his garage. when he finally got it going the liscence dept ask him what model it was he said ( its a 49-50-51 -52 -53 etc.etc the bogus boss was a 70 302 block 66 289 steel crank & rods - 73 351 cleveland open chamber heads. 70 351 c flat top pistons . that i had to cut the skirts to clear the crank throw. the pistons stuck out of the block about .050 but it didnt matter with the open heads. 318 dodge pushrods, big block chevy rocker studs, cleveland guide plates. 455 pontiac rockers, olds 455 valve springs which i still put those on ford engines i build , they have one less coil and fit easy with a shim .to the same spring height. the motor would scream if you hit it above 2500 rpm....if you have access to that many used motor parts go for it .. but i did have an original boss 302 intake on hand
This sounds very much like the story in another post http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...threadid=46031 - Fox body Mustang, 331 ProCharger, bragging at the office, etc, but that one is OK and you are listed as NE. Just for grins, what are you putting this Clevor in to beat the braggers Mustang?
If you did use the old cleveland head you would have to use the cleveland pistons as well because they are fly cut for the valves. You should not use a regular 302 piston and rods as stated above. Or you might find the pistons and the valves smacking each other out of the motor. You would need 289 rods with a good cleveland type piston.
Kurt
the boss 302 was basicly a 302 with cleveland heads. but you need to drill a water out let in the cleveland heads. the cleveland engines have the water passage running thru the block,the intake has no water passages.i think you would be better off building the 400.before you condem the 400 check out the winner of the engine master contest which is sponsered by popular hotrodding magazine.
1).What type of cam should i use with the 2V cleveland heads in a street car with a Auto trans.?
2).I hear people over cam and/or carb their engines?
3).Also I'm working on the heads. I tore them down and I'm going to rebuild them. Now i know a valve job is always a good idea and i also hear a lot about port and polishing the heads . Can someone explain the process and if and how much it would help?
4).I also want to know if going with roller rockers can really give you 15 to 20 HP?
I know its a lot to ask:HMMM:I'm still learning :3dSMILE:
Porting and polishing is a term left over from the days of flatheads. Most of us don't use it anymore, using only the words ported or porting. Reason is, current thinking is to leave the intakes rough so that fuel drop-out will be picked back up with the wind going over the rough surface, whereas if the surface were smooth (polished), the fuel would remain out of suspension and be gulped in as soon as there was sufficient airspeed, loading the cylinder with unburnable fuel. Now, on the other hand, current thinking has the exhaust ports polished smooth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano61
Having the knowledge to port heads takes a long time to learn. You don't just pick up a rotary grinder and start hogging out a port without knowing if you are helping or hurting. (And it's much easier to hurt than it is to help).
By the way, there is still an intake manifold available for the Clevor....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7129/
As far as trying to whip this guy just because he's a blowhard, that's kinda silly in my opinion. You're gonna be encountering these shmoes throughout your lifetime. Are you gonna let all of 'em get to you like this? If so, you're in for a tough ride through life.
What about a cam how do i pick a cam? Oh also do I buy timing gears for a 302 or a 351C since I'm using the 351C cam? Should i update the lifter?
techinspector1 I have been good friends with the guy for 10 years time to let so air out of his head and bring him back to the ground haha. I have never really cared who out does my motor just my friend haha. 1 time will me fun.
I'd build the motor at 11.5:1 static compression ratio and use this cam with a 4000 stall converter and a set of 4.62 gears in your 8" diff....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-364761/
I'm recommending a flat tappet solid ONLY because you said CHEAP.
You will not need centrifugal advance in the distributor, so remove the weights and tie-wrap the whole mess down tight to eliminate centrifugal advance. Install the tie wraps so that the locking nib is on the bottom, out of the way. Put all the advance in at the crank (you'll have to determine what the motor wants). Interrupt the hot line that goes to the coil and install a momentary push button switch that opens the circuit when pushed. Push the button, turn the ignition key to begin the motor spinning, then release the button. Otherwise, the starter motor will not be able to spin the crank against the compression created with this much initial ignition timing.
Cut the heads for Crane 96877-16 springs (1.460" O.D.) and install at 1.850" height with Crane 99969-16 retainers.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-96877-16/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99969-16/
Flip through here and choose your converter. The 302 is a small bellhousing block, so you will want to use a C4 that has been extensively rebuilt to take the power and rpm's that you will be feeding it through the race converter....
http://www.summitracing.com/search/D...?Ns=Rank%7cAsc
http://www.summitracing.com/search/D...d=transmission
Use checking pushrods to get the right length. Rocker tip should be in the middle of the valve tip at half-lift.
http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-...rods%27-4.aspx
Start searching right away for used parts. Some of this stuff is gonna be hard to find used.
techinspector1 Can i use these rocker arms http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-27750-16/ with http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-96877-16/ and http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99969-16/
Also what about new valves would these work http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51900252/ with http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-45685-8/and http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAN-11800-8/
and will this work http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6268-A302/ with http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-364761/ with http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99280-2/
Anything i need to change before i start ordering parts? total of $1400 add the $250 for the intake and I'm only $100 over my budget. Not bad
Valve spring part numbers are for 302 heads. Will post correct numbers for 351 head, but have to get some sleep right now.
Dano61 I would get a build sheet for this motor before I started buying stuff for it.
20 some years ago Yates racing had a build sheet for this motor with the special intake you needed to use for the Cleveland heads. Also I would have the pedastools for the rockers ground down and drilled to accept screw in studs and guide plates.
The stock pressed in studs will pull out at the high rpm's you are talking about.
I learned that lesson first hand when some push rods came thru the valve cover because the studs pulled out. I was lucky they did not go down instead of up.
They don't have to pull all the way out either, just far enough to let the push rod escape from it's seat. Then it's just the luck of the draw sorta speak.
Kurt
I agree with Kurt. This build scares me. Anyway, here's what I came up with.
96870 spring, 351 head, should rev to 7600 with 351 valves
99969 retainer (this is steel, I'd probably research titanium)
99094 locks
99820 valve stem seals
27750-16 Gold race rockers, 1.73 ratio, requires 7/16" rocker studs and guideplates.
This is the description of the 302 solid lifter cam from my Crane catalog...
3600-7400 rpm power range, 248/258, 310/320, 108 LSA, timing events 21/47/62/16, lift 0.533"/0.555", hot lash 0.022"/0.022", Performance useage, good mid-range hp, bracket racing, auto trans with 4000+ converter, 11.0-12.5 compression ratio advised.
Call up the guys at Crane and discuss all this with them. They could have an alternate plan for you. Also, some of the members on this board could have an alternative plan. I'm sort of flyin' blind on this one because I have never put one of them together.
Here are few tidbits that might help you..........
http://www.darkhorseracing.net/clevor_head_mod.htm
heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee