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Can anybody point me in the right direction for book on Cadillac engine rebuilding and modification.
Given the high cost and low availability of Chevy big blocks, I am considering rebuilding and slightly modifying a Cadillac 472 or 500 for my 55 Chevy. Any information or opinions on my idea would be appreciated
When you ask for opinions you're liable to get them, so here goes.Quote:
Originally posted by bifflop
Any information or opinions on my idea would be appreciated
First off you didn't mention if your car is a two door or four door, sedan, hardtop, or wagon. But in general if it's a four door whatever money you spent on it would be a poor "investment". The market for tri-5's has been soft for almost two years now, relative to where it was, and may stay there for a while. Now usually the first thing someone says about this time is that they don't plan to sell the car. Well, planned or not, the odds are something like 999 to 1 you will, and mistakes now will cost you later (you've heard the pay me now, or pay me later thing right?).
Then the next thing they say is that two door models cost so much more. That's correct. That's because more people like and want them. It's called "market demand". When you realize that parts, materials, and labor/effort is going to cost the same for either body style, and that the typical four door will sell for about 1/4 the value of a two door when completed you see where the pay later comes from.
Also, your premise about the BBC being low availability really confuses me. I don't know the precise production figures, but if I had to guess I'd say that Chevrolet built at least 10 times as many big blocks as Caddy ever did of the 472/500, and that's probably real conservative. In fact, Chevrolet is STILL producing the BBC, but Caddy stopped the 472/500 a long time ago. Now if you're taking about core prices then yes, the BBC is more than the Cad. It's that demand thing again...................big message there. And if you were to do an unbiased comparison of modification parts for both engines the Cad would be more costly to build than the Chev. None of this is to say the Cad is a bad engine, just that your premise is wrong.
Lastly, putting a Cad engine in a tri-5 Chev is value suicide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, dare to be different. If tossing money away doesn't matter to you, go for it. It's been done before (so much for being "different") and look, it didn't start a trend. Unlike putting a small block Chev in an old Ford, which is now a 50 year old trend (might be catchin' on!), putting Cads in tri-5 Chevies is not popular. This too will kill the resale value of the car (pay me later).
Hope this helps.
Your opinions were most appreciated. My 55 is a four door, but I like four doors and wouldn't have it any other way. Whoever has to handle my estate when I kick the buckett will be the one concerned about resale value. This baby is something I've always wanted and will alway keep. But running for the past seven years with the original six cylinder enginge and a very leaky powerglide tranny, has lead me to believe it's time to fulfill "my" dreams :)
Although, your words of wisdom have pretty much convinced me to stick with my search for a chevy 454 or 502 rebuilder. Around Boise, ID they are pretty hard to come by and generally start at $1200. Those Caddy engines can be picked up for about a quarter of that. But as you say, the cost of modifying one would outweigh the saving. After I did some further searching I saw how right you were. Plus, as I originally asked, I can't find any good literature for modifying and rebuilding Caddy engines.
Again, I thank you for your opinions and valued input.
Sincerely,
Mark E. Cembalisty
Hey I like to read a lot of the stuff that Bob writes and he's usually pretty accurate from what I've seen. But, I do like the Cadillac engines, all the Cadillacs that I have owned have been 472 and 500 engines and they are darn good engines. I've never broken one yet, they just keep running and running. The 1970 500 Caddy engine came with 400 H.P. and 550 lbs. of torque. Now, this is without any modification at all imagine what you could do with one of these if you did a little bit to it. Of course you wouldn't want to run much over 5000 R.P.M.'s. Now if you go to the web and enter maximum torque specialties, these people specialize in putting big Caddy engines in other cars. They have kits, adaptors, high performance stuff, anything that you might need for these engines. I have a 1969 Cadillac that wieghts 6000 pounds and when I want to get on it I have no problem smokin' the tires. This is only a 472 and I love it. Its really a highway car and I'll bet it will beat just about anything out there in a straight line on the highway. Look up that website and make your mind up for yourself. Hope this helps some.
Vegas
P.S. These engines have a high nickel content and tend to last longer.
Hey, I checked out that website Vegas suggested. Now I'm sitting on the fence again. There are some very interesting stock and slightly modified rebuild packages that are quite affordable making the Caddy engine a very big bang for my bucks. I'm going to have to mull this over for a while, but wanted to thank Vegas for this great website.
They are excellent! Also look at www.cad500parts.com
and www.cadillacperformanceparts.com.
OK, another caddy engine. My dear mother decided to buy a nearly perfect caddy with a 4100 in it. This thing is a SLUG!:(Now, before anyone beats me to it, I know the 4100s were a power joke, and they werent made for speed, but I've already done a complete tune up, and it runs clean. Disturbingly so. Any ideas?
If it's a four door then putting in a Caddy engine would make a nice low budget car.
We all have a car or two that we never want to sell but sometimes unexpected events make cash a higher priority. If you're willing to accept the lower resale value and make fun the priority go for it.
I would consider the Caddy engine only if It ran good and didn't need a rebuild. If I had to build up a big block engine I would spend my time and money on a Chevy engine.
I have a Caddilac shop manual for 1985 Caddilacs. It covers rebuilding the 4100 engine in great detail. If you can find one for the 472 or 500 engines it'll have all the info you need to rebuild one. Shop manuals sell on ebay for about $25. You may have to keep checking ebay for a while to find one. Swap meets are another source for these books.
The local GM dealership has Manuals going back to the sixties. When I worked for them they let me borrow any that I needed. They would let anyone look through them and even make copies of the pages that you want.
If you don't know anybody that works at a dealership you could take your car in for an oil change and ask the service manager if you can look at a shop manual while you wait. They treat customers better than a stranger coming in to bother them.
If you're concerned with spending $1200 for a rebuilder Chev Big Block, consider this... A complete, driveable mid-70's Caddy can be found (check on EBAY) for around the same cost, and you get not only a complete, running engine, but a useable GM T400 transmission for the same price. You can pull the engine, trans and whatever other serviceable parts you need from the Caddy and drop it straight into your little Chevy sedan on a long weekend!
Of course, if you're going from a stove-bolt 6 to a big V-8, you're going to upgrade the brakes, suspension and tires to handle the extra weight and power of the new engine.
That's where another advantage of the Caddy engine comes in... The Chev Big Block started out life as a heavy truck engine, and the cast iron block weighs a TON! Of course, the aluminum engines are lighter, but you're not going to find one of them in a salvage yard at any price!
The Caddy 425/472/500, on the other hand, was designed and built as a car engine, and the complete engine weighs only a bit more than a Chevy small block.
Less weight means better handling, better brakeing and better gas mileage for your daily driver.
Good Luck with your project, whatever you decide.
JetDoc
Finally, somebody that knows something about big block Caddy engines. A lot of people don't realize what good engines these are and what kind of torque they make.The 500 Caddy engine only wieghts about 50 lbs. more than the 350 Chevy, and a lot less than the Chevy 454. And it has a high nickel content and they are very dependable.
Vegas