cooling proplems

I need some help with a 1931 ford Vicky. He has 350/330 horsepower crade engine with Comp 268 extreme. I'm running a Walker Z series with air,flowcooler water pump. Higt flow 180 thermostat. Spal fan that pulls 2360cfm, demon 650 carb. My problem is at idle I have my vacuum hook to manfold side. I know I need more air flow but have no room for larger fan or shrould. What I was thinking of trying is 2 8in spal fan as pushers and ideas. Radiator core in 22 by 18 and 16in spal fan is a puller at the very top of core. Thanks, Leon

one of the biggest problems is that you're not covering the whole surface area of the radiator...... the whole radiator needs airflow...... also hint, theres a reason summit and jegs both stopped carrying Spal

I disagree on SPAL being a problem. It's all we run, and they push more air than others I have had. The Rep for PRC radiators told me they have tested every fan companies send to them for evaluation, and SPAL comes out tops every time.

How hot is your car getting? You certainly have all the good components from radiator on down. You say you have your vacuum in the manifold........it should be on the ported side of the carb (not full time vacuum) How is your timing?

Does it drop when you start moving?

Don

Timing is set at 22 degrees at 3000 rpm. I live in Alabama in 90 to 100 degree days temperture steady climbs. I turn it off at 240 Degree. I'll change the vacuum to the ported side. I found a Zips water pump riser to try put all I have is the unit. Temperture going down highway runs 190 degree. Thank for the replys. I running at custom Performance Distributor that the reason for 22 degrees at 3000 rpm. Thanks, Leon

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Originally Posted by thesals

one of the biggest problems is that you're not covering the whole surface area of the radiator...... the whole radiator needs airflow...... also hint, theres a reason summit and jegs both stopped carrying Spal

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So what is the problem with SPAL fans? Many times Summit/Jegs quit carrying things due to availability and profit margin and not technical issues. Is there a known technical or quality issue you can share?

Kitz

You didn't say anything about a shroud....For the most efficient cooling the fan, be it electric or engine driven, has to operate in a shroud to pull or push air through the radiator. Unshrouded and left to itself, air will follow the path of least resistance and that is not always through the radiator.....

22 degrees mech advance all in? seems very retarded which will make you run quite hot... I would expect closer to 36 mech advance would be the ballpark :whacked:

Dave, I have no room for a shrould, just barely have room for the electric fan. Thanks, Leon

How about switching to a pusher fan and shroud on the outside of the radiator? Might not looks as good as a puller fan hidden on the inside, but it should cool better?????

Dave, I have a little over 2in off clearence between rock guard and radiator. Do you know much about the zips water pump riser I have a zips but don't know if I can find the brackets for it. Some of the post on deuce den claim they have no problems with heat running the zips. I have a new Walker cobra series that is 1/2 thiner on the floor. I been fight this problem since 1999. I tryed 3 radiator not counting the cobra on floor.,6 or 8 difference fans. I hate to think of how much money I spent trying to cool this car.Thanks,very much for you help Leon

The rationale for the Zips is based on using a mechanical fan, thus raising the center of the pump where the fan is mounted higher on the radiator. If you're still going to run the electric fan the Zips won't offer an improvement assuming the pumping rate is the same as your existing pump.

Since you've got both a condenser and a 4 core radiator you've got quite a path for air to travel. At highway speed there may be enough ram effect to accomplish sufficient air flow, but the fan has a real job to do without the ram effect. A shroud could improve the flow as it will draw through the entire surface, not just where the fan sits. The Cobra may actually do a better job for you as there is one less row of tubes for the air to navigate through. It sounds counter intuitive, but you need the air flow to carry away heat just as much as you need surface area to expose that heat.

Bob, Thanks for the reply. If I use the cobra with a/c I'll have 1/2in more clearence and maybe could move the radiator forward and have room for a 1/2in. to 3/4in shrould. Just tired of spend money at having same problem. I had a fan that worked but when I call Spal for the fan controller he asked what fan you running. I told him the 16in extreme tha that pulls 3000 cfm. he told me is was good for 30 minutes max at a time and 1500 maxium hours. So how I'm run there 16in fan that pull 2360cfm. Thanks. very much Leon

It just dawned on me, are you running a hood? If so, does it make any difference if it is left off? Sometimes air gets trapped inside the smallish engine compartments of early cars and the hot air can't escape. It prevents new air from coming in.

Just a thought.

Don

maybe an excuse to run louvers?

the reason i made the statement about Spal is that we at our shop got a notice from Spal themselves that they're having a recent high failure rate on their latest fans and are trying to resolve the problem as quickly as possible.... about the same time jegs and summit quit carrying them as well..... i have a feeling it has something to do with all the other crap thats getting worse coming out of china

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Originally Posted by DennyW

Did you guys miss skids 72 about the retarded timing ?? :LOL: :LOL:

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Does having the timing retarded have as much of an effect on running hot as being too far advanced?

Here is a question that some of these guys might be able to help with. Where is your temp sensor located? I have heard that if it's located in the head you might pick up heat from the headers giving false readings. The increased airflow around everything when going down the road might be partially taking care of what might be a false temp? I have heard the temp variations from having the sensor in a head vs in the intake can be anywhere from 0 to 20 or 30 degrees. I'd really like to hear from someone who has tried a sensor in both locations and what their findings were.

It sounds like you have a good radiator, a good high flow water pump, and a good fan. The only thing you lack is a shroud. Walker has a new 17" Cooling Components fan/shroud combo that requires less clearance than the older Cooling Components fan and it moves a lot of air. I don't think it's in their catalog yet, but they were taking pre-orders at the Nats back in August. My personal experience with going from a Spal fan like you have to a Cooling Components fan/shroud is I run cooler at idle or slow traffic but picked up a few degrees running down the highway, even with the flaps that open up to allow more air through at speed.

You've spent a lot of $$$$ on cooling problems so you might want to buy or borrow a laser temperature gun to verify that you are actually running that hot. That kind of goes back to where the temp sensor is located, if in fact that could be an issue. I wouldn't suspect a gauge problem since the temps go down on the highway, but I'm wondering if the location of your sensor, if it's in the head, is being effected by header heat.

Good points, Eliot...

I figure if you're too far advanced you'll have more problems than just running hot :eek: A few degrees too retarded can raise temperatures significantly, a few more can light up your headers like the kitchen stove... With the timing just right, most all the energy goes into moving the piston leaving less energy in the form of heat to get rid of...

-Chris

I have same problem with or without the hood. I'm running a 32 hood with louvers. I've played with the timing with and with out vacuum advance. Eliot I call Walker Radiator and talked to Wendell Walker about the fan you were talking about.The fan will fit.I'm going to try it and send back the cobra radiator. I let all of you know how thing come out thanks very much for your time and help. Leon

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Originally Posted by Leon Weathers

.......talked to Wendell Walker about the fan you were talking about.The fan will fit.I'm going to try it ...........

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Leon, that is a nice fan, I put one in about two or three weeks ago. Did Walker mention the relay they recommend using with that fan? It will draw more current and also has a higher start current than your Spal. They recommend a 75 amp relay, mainly because they have trouble finding relays rated at 50 amps. I picked my relay and socket up from American Autowire when I was at the Nats in August. I also decided to run a small breaker instead of a fuse for the fan. Walker recommended a 50 amp, and a breaker was a lot smaller than a maxi-fuse and holder. I think one of the Walker reps said that painless was working on a relay kit for that fan, but I just bought the parts and made my own so I wouldn't have to wait. If you need any info on where I got my parts or how I wired it up shoot me an e-mail.

I'd still be curious to know what a heat gun measures on your engine/radiator and if your temp sensor is located in the head or the intake.

Its in the intake.I have shot it with a gun but don't remember the numbers. This problem been going on for several years. Thanks, Leon

The new cooling components fan would not fit needed 2 inches of clearence at water pump pulley and I had only 1 and half inches. Looks like I can try moving the 4 core Walker radiator foward and build shrould and buy a new hood or put the Walker 3 core cobra with air in and take my chances. The bad thing is it will be July before I know if it all work. Thanks, for all the help Leon

Denny,The timing is off got to put the timing tape on to check the advance. The initial timing is set on 10 degrees. I've made a few pictures but can't figure how to down load or paste to this site. I don't know if it makes a difference but I run Evans coolant with flowkooler water pump and march high flow pulleys. It take the engine about 15 minutes for thermostat to open on 80 degree day. Thanks Leon