are roller tipped rockers worth the investment?

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11-22-2006, 04:17 PM
Matt167

are roller tipped rockers worth the investment?

I'm going to buy 1.6 rockers for my 200 I6, I have 1.5's right now. but 1.6 roller tipped rockers are made for the 144-250's and also full roller 1.65 rockers are made. would it be a good investment to get the roller tipped or full rollers over stock adjustable 1.6 rockers? the roller tipped rockers are about $120 more than the stock adjustable 1.6's, full rollers are approx $100 more than the roller tipped rockers, which should I get?
11-22-2006, 04:24 PM
pat mccarthy

matt i like full rollers. the roller tip may help. but all the trouble is at the ball and you still have them on a roller tip. a roller you get a truion for more load but if you are driving this a lot then go to steel stamped rockers the pins in the truions in time may get beat out.
11-22-2006, 04:27 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt167

I'm going to buy 1.6 rockers for my 200 I6, I have 1.5's right now. but 1.6 roller tipped rockers are made for the 144-250's and also full roller 1.65 rockers are made. would it be a good investment to get the roller tipped or full rollers over stock adjustable 1.6 rockers? the roller tipped rockers are about $120 more than the stock adjustable 1.6's, full rollers are approx $100 more than the roller tipped rockers, which should I get?

Don't forget that the 1.6 add's more lift.
Factor that in when you look at valve springs.
11-22-2006, 04:29 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

matt i like full rollers. the roller tip may help. but all the trouble is at the ball and you still have them on a roller tip. a roller you get a truion for more load but if you are driving this a lot then go to steel stamped rockers the pins in the truions in time may get beat out.

yeah, I'm gonna drive it on the street. I was going to use it as a daily driver but, maby I'll get somthing diffrent for that.
11-22-2006, 04:36 PM
pat mccarthy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt167

yeah, I'm gonna drive it on the street. I was going to use it as a daily driver but, maby I'll get something diffrent for that.

less than 3000 miles a year run full rollers watch out for your push rods check for the right length and look at the slots in the heads that the pushrods do not work off them when going to more ratio
11-22-2006, 04:37 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by erik erikson

Don't forget that the 1.6 add's more lift.
Factor that in when you look at valve springs.

6.7% more lift at the valve to be exact. yeah I realize I need to make shure of the springs I get will work. plan on getting a cam with about .440 lift each. stock springs will work with lifts up to .480 so that would work out to .474, I don't want to get into coil bind so I'll get a spring that will allow more lift. stock 302 springs work but I'm not shure on there lift specs.
11-22-2006, 04:37 PM
Dave Severson

Just a word of caution, Matt. Don't run out and buy the cheapest on the market, stick with the name brand stuff. I run the Comp Cams Moly arms and as of yet have never suffered a failure on the street or racing. As with anything else, you are going to get what you pay for.......

We played with the longer ratio arms some. On the dyno we got some very interesting results running them on just the exhausts. That was with a roller cam though. Not sure the results would be the same with a flat tappet cam.... Erik, Pat, help me out here!!!!!
11-22-2006, 04:43 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Just a word of caution, Matt. Don't run out and buy the cheapest on the market, stick with the name brand stuff. I run the Comp Cams Moly arms and as of yet have never suffered a failure on the street or racing. As with anything else, you are going to get what you pay for.......

We played with the longer ratio arms some. On the dyno we got some very interesting results running them on just the exhausts. That was with a roller cam though. Not sure the results would be the same with a flat tappet cam.... Erik, Pat, help me out here!!!!!

Comp cams dosn't make the full roller rockers, there made by Yella Terra which I think is an Australlian company, because the real technology for these 6's come from Australlia ( particularly OZ cyl heads ). here's the page with the rocker shafts

http://classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=24
11-22-2006, 04:48 PM
pat mccarthy

i had 1.6 harland sharps on a 4.3 this was my driver i bet they had 10.000 on them and still where ok when i soild it so matt like dave S said this is on places to get cheap sorry dave i can not help here but to say i not a big fan of the new trend for super big rocker ratios was talking to a guy that was running 1.8?? on some killer small block i just do not know how they keep the valve springs in them
11-22-2006, 04:48 PM
Dave Severson

1 Attachment(s)

Well, I don't know who makes them but they come in a Comp Cams box and they don't break. Some of the cheapie aluminum ones are just flimsy cast pieces and will bust without a moments notice.....

Here's a pic of the ones that I use....
11-22-2006, 04:53 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Well, I don't know who makes them but they come in a Comp Cams box and they don't break. Some of the cheapie aluminum ones are just flimsy cast pieces and will bust without a moments notice.....

Oh, dave I didn't mean to say Comp cams dosn't make roller rockers at all, I meant to say they do not make them for the 144-250 I6's, the 1's I'm talking about are on the site I posted.
11-22-2006, 04:55 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i had 1.6 harland sharps on a 4.3 this was my driver i bet they had 10.000 on them and still where ok when i soild it so matt like dave S said this is on places to get cheap sorry dave i can not help here but to say i not a big fan of the new trend for super big rocker ratios was talking to a guy that was running 1.8?? on some killer small block i just do not know how they keep the valve springs in them

We never went that big, just 1.6 and 1.7 on the exhaust side. For whatever reason (exhaust scavenging manybe) seemed to extend the hi torque range by about 800 RPM on the dyno. Probably nothing that would ever matter on the street.....???? Coil bind does become an issue, along with tipping the rocker past the center of the valve stem.....
11-22-2006, 04:56 PM
Matt167

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Well, I don't know who makes them but they come in a Comp Cams box and they don't break. Some of the cheapie aluminum ones are just flimsy cast pieces and will bust without a moments notice.....

Here's a pic of the ones that I use....

here's the full roller rockers, they are 1.65 ratio. the 144-250's use a rocker shaft rather than individual rockers.
11-22-2006, 04:56 PM
Dave Severson

oh yeah, is that six a rocker shaft affair still????
11-22-2006, 04:58 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

We never went that big, just 1.6 and 1.7 on the exhaust side. For whatever reason (exhaust scavenging manybe) seemed to extend the hi torque range by about 800 RPM on the dyno. Probably nothing that would ever matter on the street.....???? Coil bind does become an issue, along with tipping the rocker past the center of the valve stem.....

Yes,Dave the increased rocker arm ratio on the exhaust side will help to wake it up if your intake to exhaust ratio is a little off.
11-22-2006, 04:59 PM
Dave Severson

The Yella Terra set at least has a decent sized trunnion on it.... The aluminum ones didn't look all that super.
11-22-2006, 04:59 PM
pat mccarthy

i can not say how much stuff get made in oz land but the timing set are nice the yellaterra stuff looks good ACL bearings are made there i think to? crane and lunati were the same rocker arms just dif color and the scorpons and howards are the same
11-22-2006, 05:00 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

oh yeah, is that six a rocker shaft affair still????

yep runs on a rocker shaft.
11-22-2006, 05:03 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i can not say how much stuff get made in oz land but the timing set are nice the yellaterra stuff looks good ACL bearings are made there i think to? crane and lunati were the same rocker arms just dif color and the scorpons and howards are the same

yes ACL is an australlian company. the stock Australlian turbocharged Ford motors use ACL hypereuratic pistions.
11-22-2006, 05:04 PM
cffisher

A little somthing from left field.Rather than useing more lift why not more duration and leave your lift at 5.1
11-22-2006, 05:05 PM
pat mccarthy

i like the S steel crowers they have a harden ball end for the push rod not sure if the comps do? if shaft i would run the yella terras
11-22-2006, 05:05 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

The Yella Terra set at least has a decent sized trunnion on it.... The aluminum ones didn't look all that super.

yeah, I just re looked at the roller tipped rockers ( the blue 1's ) and they don't look all that super. I think I'll get the full roller Yella Terra's
11-22-2006, 05:07 PM
Dave Severson

yup, they're more money, but will probably outlast two sets of the others.....
11-22-2006, 05:08 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by cffisher

A little somthing from left field.Rather than useing more lift why not more duration and leave your lift at 5.1

from my understanding, a turbo would work best with a shorter dururation with a lot of lift, that's why I decided on going with 1.6 or 1.65 rockers.
11-22-2006, 05:08 PM
pat mccarthy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cffisher

A little somthing from left field.Rather than useing more lift why not more duration and leave your lift at 5.1

for a turbo you have to watch the duration on the ex side
11-22-2006, 05:11 PM
cffisher

Don't know if you don't ask:eek:
11-22-2006, 05:11 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

yup, they're more money, but will probably outlast two sets of the others.....

there not really that much more really, when you figure, they come with chrome moly oil thru pushrods ( $45 from classic inlines ) and oil thru SBF lifters ( $55 thru classic inlines ), and it's $50 less than the listed price after core charge is refunded.
11-22-2006, 05:11 PM
southerner

Heres an email www.yellaterra.com.au to get a catalogue when the sites up.
11-22-2006, 05:14 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

for a turbo you have to watch the duration on the ex side

yep, just as an example, the old Isky 144-200 Turbo cam has a 260 intake dururation and a 248 exhaust dururation.
11-22-2006, 05:34 PM
pat mccarthy

yes matt we posted on that at the same time. i did a duel turbo 540 big block and did some work on a duel turbo buick v6
11-22-2006, 06:26 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

yes matt we posted on that at the same time. i did a duel turbo 540 big block and did some work on a duel turbo buick v6

I'm thinking of having a custom turbo ground, somthing like 264 intake dururation, 256 exhaust dururation .450/.445 lift, ground on 112* LCA. that sound right?
11-22-2006, 06:54 PM
pat mccarthy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt167

I'm thinking of having a custom turbo ground, somthing like 264 intake dururation, 256 exhaust dururation .450/.445 lift, ground on 112* LCA. that sound right?

i think bit more on the lsa 114? and less on the ex dururation 252
11-22-2006, 07:28 PM
Matt167

is valve overlap at 30 ok? I just put those specs in dyno 2000 and it comes up to 30 for valve overlap
11-22-2006, 07:42 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road Agent

You gonna put a fart can on it too Matt?? :)

Hey,my mon was a fartcan.
11-22-2006, 08:33 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road Agent

You gonna put a fart can on it too Matt?? :)

No, but I'm gonna use a stainless steel exhaust tip, that right there should net me 20 extra horses:LOL:

seriously I don't belive putting a turbo on an american car is ricey, specially being the turbo came off of an american car.:) I will probably use a glass pack, like I have now.
11-23-2006, 07:41 PM
thesals

a type R badge and some vinyls will give you like 120+ HP :LOL:

and btw full rollers are definately the way to go.... i used the roller tips on my 200 and they broke pretty fast (like 500 miles or so)

i've never used OZ parts though.... i've heard their ford HEI distributors are junk though
11-24-2006, 04:34 PM
Matt167

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesals

a type R badge and some vinyls will give you like 120+ HP :LOL:

and btw full rollers are definately the way to go.... i used the roller tips on my 200 and they broke pretty fast (like 500 miles or so)

i've never used OZ parts though.... i've heard their ford HEI distributors are junk though

you talking about the classic inlines DUI distributors? there dyno tested to give an average HP gain of 13 HP over a stock single point distributor. the dyno testing results for that is on the ford six forums.
11-29-2006, 10:54 AM
Fatboy46

I had to trade a set of aluminum roller rockers for a set of stamped steel/roller tips.. the valve covers wouldn't clear the rockers.. and I couldn't use taller valve covers and get the accessories ( A/c, etc) to fit. the stamped steel ones worked fine for 50K miles+ the extra lift seemed to help at higher rpms ( this was a 85 bonneville- 5.0 4bbl). as long as you have piston/valve clearance and valve covers height isn't an issue I'd do the real roller rockers. but, the stamped steel/ roller tips are fine. the name brands will insure that you REALLLY have 1.6 ratio. Stock parts tend to vary even at 1.5. If you know that you have dished or falt top pistons, you'll likey be fine on clearance... but it pays to check// ESPECIALLY if you change cams!!

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