The Best Crate?

Well as most of you know I recently purchased a 1985 Chevy C10 about 2 weeks ago or so. It has a 305 with about 135,000 miles on it. The guy right before me drove it ALL the time and drove it hard with a huge tool box in the bed loaded with tools and a big trailor he hauled around on jobs. Well it's in really great shape but on start up it blows out smoke and now starting to blow smoke when you drive it. It's running really rich and then also not just rich it has a weird burning smell to it as well and it is VERY strong. Stand behing the truck for not even a minute and your clothes smell. My father thinks the rings are going on it. So here is what me and him would like to do. Instead of wasting the time and money on getting a new Edelbrock or Holley carb and manifold, headers, rebuilding it, etc we thought we might as well put a nice crate 350 with all that on it already. It has a 305 in it now with a newly build 350 tranny with a shift kit and that is all. This is the everyday driver so I mean I don't need a Edelbrock crate with 450 HP or nothing but about 300-350 HP would be nice my father said.
Any suggestions on places you guys have used and gotten good service and a good 350 4 bolt main crate motor?
Thanks a lot for any help, suggestions, comments, info and whatever else!

Shawn-

I was just scanning through my Scoggin-Dickey catalog and I see a brand new 350 Goodwrench long block under part # 10067353 for $1,279.99. It's built with all-new components, not rebuilt and uses a 4-bolt block as a base. It isn't a high-hp unit, but should do a pretty good job of pullin' your truck and the price is certainly right. Just add a cast iron intake with a Q-jet, HEI distributor and a set of 1 5/8" headers and you're good to go.

engine name.............350 LM1
horsepower...............249 @ 5,000
torque.......................304 @ 3,500
compression ratio......8.50:1
block..........................4-bolt, 2-piece main seal
crank..........................cast nodular
heads.........................cast iron, 72 cc chambers
valves.........................1.940" / 1.500"
cam.............................hydraulic, 0.390" / 0.410" lift
duration @ 0.050"......195 / 202

This motor should run admirably on the worst cat-piss pump gas you could find.

Oh yeah I remember seeing that... Is there anything with more compression? I would like to get more compression. Also since I have a ESC (I think that's it) computer in here now can I use my HEI dissy that is in the 305? It's got the MSD upgrade kit with a new coil, module, cap, wires, etc etc. The little computer all it does is control spark knock and sets timing when I get spark knock....
I thought I saw that company selling a crate with Edelbrock carb and manifold if I am not mistaken... I thought I post a link on it a few weeks ago but can't find it!
Thanks again Techy.

Why do you want more compression? This motor is within 1/2 point of the limit for pump gas with iron heads anyway (9:1).

Shawn, it's all a matter of value for the money with me and I see a lot of value in this motor for the money. You can spend as much or as little as you want on a motor. You know that from hanging around here for as long as you have.

How much are you willing to spend. Both of these motors have 9.1:1, will bolt in, and will accept all of your acessories minus the intake manifold.

No carb, distributor, or manifold included: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

Turnkey motor minus starter: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

9:1 is not the limit for pump gas and iron heads, I'm running 89 in my new motor which is running 9.25:1 under some vortec heads. I haven't tried 87 yet, but I'm confident it will also work. The newer design of the vortec heads greatly reduces the ignition timing requirements of the motor, which greatly reduces the motor's octane requirement. I only need to run 6 degrees at idle with a much larger than stock cam. Those 8.5:1 350's aren't 8.5:1 either, if you run the numbers they'll come out at 7.8:1.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by techinspector1
Why do you want more compression? This motor is within 1/2 point of the limit for pump gas with iron heads anyway (9:1).

Shawn, it's all a matter of value for the money with me and I see a lot of value in this motor for the money. You can spend as much or as little as you want on a motor. You know that from hanging around here for as long as you have.

---

Heh ok Tech.... You are right! heh But yeah seriously you are. I don't know I just thought maybe I'd want more compression for better and bigger head's later on, etc. This is basically my father's hot rod kind of project so it's not all my money going into it. I have two other projects and this one is for him so for now we want a good 350 motor to build off of and use on the street and slowly add better heads, dress it up, cam, etc.
What is the stock cam size on a 350 anyways? This I don't know, I don't know the stock sizes on cams of motors or what like one or two steps up from stock is either. I am going to have to start learning this part next.
I will check those two other links out as well thanks a lot!

Oh and also.... Right now I run mid and supreme premium grade gas in both my 66 and the 85 now. The 85 now I believe stock is 8:1 compression. I just put high grade in it the other day because I wanted to get it cleaned out some and added B12 to my gas as well since this guy never took care of it like I wished he did.

Shawn, if the motor I spec'd has 8.5 c.r. now, with 72 cc chambers, then a swap later on to 64 cc heads (Vortec or whatever) would give a c.r. of 9.33:1.

As far as your question about a stock cam spec, I suspect the cam with this crate motor is about as stock as they come. Chevy might offer a milder cam, but it won't be by much.

Also, being that motor is a GM crate then it is available right from a Chevy dealership at the parts counter, save you on the truck freight. but weigh the cost, the motor might be a little more at the dealership but have no shipping or anything, just tax, from Scoggin Dickey, it will have a truck freight charge on top of the regular price but might be less than getting it from the dealership, maby the other way round, maby there the same. Just get what it would cost for tax from a dealer and the truck freight quote, get the quote to a local buisnuess if you can, makes it like 150 bucks cheaper than to your door, ya really make out good if your house is also a buisnuess address for a home buisnuess or whatnot, cause then your house is considered a buisnuess.

Hey Shawn, you are probally right about getting it from the dealer should be pretty close on price, that appears to be the same exact motor I bought for my 5 window (over the dealer counter), I called Schnieder cams told em what I had and told em I wanted a cam that sounded good at stop signs, put that in there with a 3 duece set up and she's good ta go,
Coulda built one myself but why would ya when ya can get a brand new one for $1250.

Awsome guys, thanks! I will see what we can do. Yeah I would swap out for a bit more lopy cam. What is the biggest I can get they will be good for street? No radical cam needed here, just a good street cam to give me a bit more HP that stock. Also I guess I should go with Edelbrocks EPS intake manifold and then a HOLLEY or Edelbrock carb? I keep getting that I should get a Holley carb. The local speed shop owner said that I will like the Holley better even for street.... Also will my HEI dissy that is in the 305 now work with this motor? That would save me some money....
Thanks!

I couldn't be happier with my Comp XE256H cam, but I am running 9.25:1 compression. It doesn't lope much at all at an 800 rpm idle, but with the low compression of a stock motor it might do it more. This cam is in a truck and works very well. Off idle, it makes more torque than the stock cam and continues making more torque than the stock cam until the redline with is 1000 rpm higher than stock. It has a very broad, useable power band. By 3000 rpm, it really starts to pick up, over 400 ft lbs from a 350. Gives me some get up and go with those 3.07 gears in the rear and a stock torque converter.

My rear gears are like 2.73 is it? Maybe that is 2.72 I can't remember. So the gears will be the only thing keeping me from getting bottom end really but that is ok since I will be driving this thing on the highway a lot too. The 66 is my truck for the get up and go driving on the weekends now. heh. I will check that cam out. I may go ahead and see what my dad thinks about getting the whole performer kit from Edelbrock with the cam, manifold, carb and everything else besides the heads and keep the stock one's on for now.

Go easy on the cam with 2.73 gears and a stock converter. Remember, as you go bigger on the cam, you move the effective range up in the rpm band, so you want to keep the power low in the band with that gear and converter. Also, as you increase the size of the cam, you delay the intake closing point, so you need more static compression ratio to make up the difference.

Bottom line, choose the cam last.

Ok I see. So what if you have a high revving motor (I am not saying I will, just for comparrison) and then about 500 HP with those kind's of gears? Would the truck still haul butt on bottom end (like if I built the motor for bottom end) or will the gears keep it from doing that?

The cam makes power in a window of operation of about 3,500 rpm's. For instance, depending on the grind, it might make power from idle to 4,200 or 1,500 to 5,000 or 2,000 to 5,500 or 2,500 to 6,000 or 3000 to 6,500 or 3,500 to 7,000 or whatever ad infinitum. So, if you plan to buzz the motor to 7,000 for instance, then you should make allowance for a loose converter to get the motor up to and past the 3,500 rpm lower limit where it starts making power.

The next time you go to the drags, pay attention to some of the cars at the starting line, listen to the revs of the motor before they launch. They're using long cams to make power up high, so they also use a very loose converter to get the motor "up on the cam" before launch.

Any of you guys out there with a stock converter and a numerically low gear, for instance the 2.73 that was mentioned, have absolutely no business with a cam other than stock. Remember kids, it's all in the combination. Everything must be chosen to work together as a unit toward the same goal.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by techinspector1
Why do you want more compression? This motor is within 1/2 point of the limit for pump gas with iron heads anyway (9:1).

Shawn, it's all a matter of value for the money with me and I see a lot of value in this motor for the money. You can spend as much or as little as you want on a motor. You know that from hanging around here for as long as you have.

---

I agree.
The crate in my ride is 9:1 with 64cc heads(iron) and it is very sensitive to octane rating. If I dont run at least 93, it pings and rattles and runs hot. Some brands of 93 just dont cut it and I add octane boost to eliminate the rattles. I would heed the warning from techinspector on the compression.

also with the 8:1, it would allow the use of a blower with a good amount of boost, if that much extra power was ever needed.

Heh no blower on this truck. Too much gas and problems then. My father said he say this crate motor for 800 bucks... Someone told him about it this weekend. $800 is cheap! Maybe if we DO find it for 800 I will buy two of them... One for the truck, the other for the 48. The 48 I am thinking of putting a blower on it... Not sure. But yeah thanks guys.