Quadrajet, and spark plug questions.

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03-04-2005, 05:39 PM
pfogle

Quadrajet, and spark plug questions.

Okay, this will be a 2 part post so please bear with me..

I have a 1980 Malibu with a worn out 229. I have purchased a 350 and 700R4 trans from a 1986 suburban.. The 350 has a computer controlled carb on it. I need to know if there is a way to make the carb work normally without the electrics. Secondly I need to aqquire an AC Delco spark plug heat range chart. My goal is to have a decent performer that gets good gas mileage too.. If my dad had a 454 in a suburban that got 14mpg in town. I don't see why 22mpg is out of the question.
03-04-2005, 06:23 PM
lt1s10

Re: Quadrajet, and spark plug questions.

Quote:

Originally posted by pfogle
Okay, this will be a 2 part post so please bear with me..

I have a 1980 Malibu with a worn out 229. I have purchased a 350 and 700R4 trans from a 1986 suburban.. The 350 has a computer controlled carb on it. I need to know if there is a way to make the carb work normally without the electrics. Secondly I need to aqquire an AC Delco spark plug heat range chart. My goal is to have a decent performer that gets good gas mileage too.. If my dad had a 454 in a suburban that got 14mpg in town. I don't see why 22mpg is out of the question.

if you are not gonna use the electrics in the carb you need to get youself another carb. its a long ways from 14 to 22, plus a smaller motor pulling the same weight might use more gas. youll be better off if you get the computor and wiring harness to go with that motor. thats where the gas milage is. :cool:
03-04-2005, 06:26 PM
pfogle

Thank you. Let me clarify a little. The 350 is goin into the 1980 malibu. And he got 14 from a 454... So I would think that the 350 in the 'bu should get at least 20.... The current V6 with about 80hp gets 20....
03-04-2005, 06:43 PM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally posted by pfogle
Thank you. Let me clarify a little. The 350 is goin into the 1980 malibu. And he got 14 from a 454... So I would think that the 350 in the 'bu should get at least 20.... The current V6 with about 80hp gets 20....

ok that will make the gas milage more obtainable, but that carb is not gonna get the job done. the computor motor should run cleaner and use less gas than a reg. carb. motor. i have done a lot of work on reg. QJ but not the computor ones, but there is a TPS senser in that carb that would have to work for it to be right. you would still be better off on mpg with the computor and wiring harness to go with that motor to get its max. i dont know, but i think a smog motor with no electrics is not the motor to be looking for gas miles. id wont the electrics. JMO **)
03-04-2005, 06:50 PM
pfogle

That's the odd thing. There is no TPS in the carb, just the mixture control...... That what confused me as well... I think I'll buy the edel carter knock-off and see what happens. I'd rather keep the q-jet as it's a great carb.... But if it won't work it won't work.
03-04-2005, 07:00 PM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally posted by pfogle
That's the odd thing. There is no TPS in the carb, just the mixture control...... That what confused me as well... I think I'll buy the edel carter knock-off and see what happens. I'd rather keep the q-jet as it's a great carb.... But if it won't work it won't work.

has it got the big 3 wire plug l/ front of carb.?
03-04-2005, 07:00 PM
pfogle

Nope, just the little 2 wire one on the top, that is angled toward the front.
03-04-2005, 07:01 PM
Don Shillady

t1s10 is trying to say that there are a lot of variables contributing to mileage including rear gear ratio and the gear ratios in the 700R4 along with the shift points in terms of rpm and in the electronic version this has been supposedly optimized in the factory computer for a given set of gears and the torque curve of a given engine. Sometimes you can get lucky and everything transfers OK when the engine is changed but you need to compare the gears of what you have now to what you will have with the modified setup. On the other hand a four speed gives you more flexibility and the OD should give good mileage. In addition the low gear of the 700R4 is lower than many other transmissions so you should have low end torque multiplication as well as good mileage from the OD fourth gear. Then if you modify the 350 you need to select your cam and intake to make power in the range of your gears and shift points. Try

http://home.tampabay.rr.com/1bking/c...calculator.htm

to check out the rpm ranges of your gears. With the V6 your rear gear ratio may be pretty low for the 350 and the already low gear of the 700R4. You may not be off by much using the rear you have now because of the wide range of the four gears in the 700R4, but it might be a good idea to check AND use the electronic harness and computer chip the 350 was set up for. Hopefully the range of gears in the 700R4 may cover your new setup but the rear gear may be too low. Try running the calculations and try to get the electronic harness as lt1s10 suggested.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
03-04-2005, 07:03 PM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally posted by pfogle
Nope, just the little 2 wire one on the top, that is angled toward the front.

you might be ok then. thats a whole new ball game :cool:
03-04-2005, 07:10 PM
pfogle

So that's just a try it and see what happens type thing?
03-04-2005, 07:20 PM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Shillady
t1s10 is trying to say that there are a lot of variables contributing to mileage including rear gear ratio and the gear ratios in the 700R4 along with the shift points in terms of rpm and in the electronic version this has been supposedly optimized in the factory computer for a given set of gears and the torque curve of a given engine. Sometimes you can get lucky and everything transfers OK when the engine is changed but you need to compare the gears of what you have now to what you will have with the modified setup. On the other hand a four speed gives you more flexibility and the OD should give good mileage. In addition the low gear of the 700R4 is lower than many other transmissions so you should have low end torque multiplication as well as good mileage from the OD fourth gear. Then if you modify the 350 you need to select your cam and intake to make power in the range of your gears and shift points. Try

http://home.tampabay.rr.com/1bking/c...calculator.htm

to check out the rpm ranges of your gears. With the V6 your rear gear ratio may be pretty low for the 350 and the already low gear of the 700R4. You may not be off by much using the rear you have now because of the wide range of the four gears in the 700R4, but it might be a good idea to check AND use the electronic harness and computer chip the 350 was set up for. Hopefully the range of gears in the 700R4 may cover your new setup but the rear gear may be too low. Try running the calculations and try to get the electronic harness as lt1s10 suggested.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don,its coming out of a suburban and going into a car so its something he needs to look at, but i belive all of that would be a plus. im more concrened with the electrics of the carb. and EI. he dont want to hook up the computer up but, like you said to get the max. out of the set up he really needs the computor. you need to know what the gear ratios are and dont forget the small tires on the car.
03-04-2005, 07:23 PM
pfogle

The tires are getting changed. I think the rear gear is a 2.73, and the final in the trans is .70.. So I can just lock it in third for everything but highway travel... That's what I want...
03-04-2005, 07:51 PM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally posted by pfogle
The tires are getting changed. I think the rear gear is a 2.73, and the final in the trans is .70.. So I can just lock it in third for everything but highway travel... That's what I want...

your gear is ok. go for it ,you can allways change the carb. if you have to. :cool:
03-04-2005, 07:59 PM
Don Shillady

OK, it might work out if you can recreate as much as possible of the electronics from the Suburban. I yield totally to guys like lt1s10 who have years of shop experience on various carbs and ignition systems. In my former career I often would take some electronics from a surplus instrument and use it for another purpose just by taping off the leads I did not use so if I had this problem I would try to make the hookups as much like the setup the 350 came from and then ask for help from folks on this Forum. One note of comfort is that when the 2003-2004 Corvettes went to high mpg setups they also used a similar rear ratio with a 700R4 and a 350 so you won't be far off mechanically. Maybe you could even use the shop manual for the Suburban with the parts it used. Also as lt1s10 said, the tires on the Corvettes and the Suburban were pretty large so it may be worth checking the effect of whatever tires you have, but if you are willing to just use the OD occasionally it might work out OK. You may also have to mess around with the electric switch for the OD and maybe install a manual toggle switch unless the harness from the Surburban takes care of that. My 700R4 was converted to a hydraulic switch but as I recall the stock 700R4 uses an electric switch for the fourth gear OD, but if you manually shift from third to fourth and then down shift to third manually you may be OK, but without that switch you cannot leave it in fourth and expect it to downshift automatically unless there is an electric signal to the trans. Good Luck!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
03-04-2005, 08:06 PM
pfogle

Actually, the 700 has a mechanical 4th gear (od) and then a torque converter lock up. My current setup is a 229V6 with a 200c three speed with a lockup TC. So it's just a matter of making sure I wire the TC correctly to the existing controls. The carb will either work or get replaced. I'm not going to mess with the electronics.. I had a '92 E150 that was MPFI on a 351w. While it got 17mpg empty at 70mph. It was a beast to work on. This is an old car with no provisions for a computer so it's not gettin one...
03-04-2005, 08:12 PM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally posted by pfogle
Actually, the 700 has a mechanical 4th gear (od) and then a torque converter lock up. My current setup is a 229V6 with a 200c three speed with a lockup TC. So it's just a matter of making sure I wire the TC correctly to the existing controls. The carb will either work or get replaced. I'm not going to mess with the electronics.. I had a '92 E150 that was MPFI on a 351w. While it got 17mpg empty at 70mph. It was a beast to work on. This is an old car with no provisions for a computer so it's not gettin one...

the same wire thats locking up your conv now should work fine. i belive the carb. will to. i belive youll get that 20 mpg. let me know. :cool:
03-04-2005, 08:32 PM
Don Shillady

OK, the OD switch I am referring to is the torque converter lockup, so if you can adapt the current three speed lockup control that's fine, but it's beyond my ability. For that reason I am using the hydraulic switch with a modified 700R4 and an Edelbrock 1406 carb (600 CFM) on a non-electronic '76 Corvette 350 block. I don't want to mess with the electronic controls either, but if your 350 has them it may be easier to simulate the original setup than to eliminate them? Still you seem to know pretty much what to do now. Best Wishes.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
03-04-2005, 09:17 PM
pfogle

Okay.. It's gonna be a while before I can do anything.. I've got carpal tunnel problems and arthritis. This cold weather is killing me... It WILL be done before july, but I hope to have it done next month after it warms up.
03-04-2005, 09:20 PM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally posted by pfogle
Okay.. It's gonna be a while before I can do anything.. I've got carpal tunnel problems and arthritis. This cold weather is killing me... It WILL be done before july, but I hope to have it done next month after it warms up.

good luck. :cool:
03-16-2005, 05:30 AM
pfogle

Well the 350 is back together. It's not running yet as I'm still waiting on an intake and carb. It's getting closer! All the bearings spec'd good (.002 to.003 instead of the .005 to .006 we had. We used .002 oversize bearings.)
03-19-2005, 02:10 PM
urotu

Hey there. I'll drop mine in here too, 'cause. Most of what goin' on here sounds like good advice, but I wouldn't worry too much about the "computer" on that '86 burban. It's pretty much just a body computer. That is is doesn't actually run much on the engine, just takes readings, pretty much. The carb you're talkin' about, if Im not mistaken, is the early electric carb and it's about the only "computer" controlled component on the engine itself.

'86, standard old HEI I'm guessin? Those 2 wires on the carb are still technicall a TPS so that would be the only problem I would forsee. The carb won't respond as well as with the box. Other than that you should be able to dump the air pump, O2 sensors, etc... and have no problems. On the up side that is still a quad intake so an earlier model would fit no prob and you would still see the benefits of "stock" asspiration, ie: better mileage and good all around performance.

I'm glad to see everything spec'd out good. Should be a great mill for that G body.
03-19-2005, 04:50 PM
fordwrench

If I'm correct

The carb you have is not a feed back/o2 sensor carb. The two wire device on top is a cold enrichment solenoid not a mixture control solenoid. You will find replaceable jets inside.
03-19-2005, 04:58 PM
fordwrench

Oh yea, The distributer is probably a five wire with a vac. and mechanical advance. The suburban had a spark control computer and a knock sensor to retard timing through the module.
04-01-2005, 09:05 PM
goldenrog

The 2 wire plug on top is the vent solenoid. It looks identical to the mixture control solenoid on the passenger car carb. The trucks never used ECM controlled fuel mixture. The only thing you should have to do is find out how GM controlled the vent function (I would speculate that any time the key is on the vent solenoid would be energized to close it, if that's the case you could take any key on B+ and power it) Bear in mind that you should retain all the emmision crud to match the carb. You might do better with an earlier manifold and QJ.
04-01-2005, 09:15 PM
goldenrog

On the distributor subject, the knock retard fuction of the module can be by-passed. If you need the procedure, drop me an e-mail and I'll get it from my PC at work.
04-02-2005, 09:12 PM
pfogle

Actually, I replaced the carb with a Edelbrock 600cfm carter/afb. Went with an OLD weiand x-celerator intake (circa mid 60's, has the hole in the intake for the oil fill... :o The dizzy is a standard HEI. I just bought a 2001 windstar so the malibu MAY get done finally.