oil in radiator/water in oil, only smoke is from breather

[CamaroCliff]

i recently put new dart 2.02 heads on, and a new cam in. its a 350 bored .040 over in a 1986 camaro. there are flat top pistons with new rings 30,000 miles ago. the old heads had bad seals, so it smoked. the compression is great in all 8. when i put the new heads/cam in, it ran great, and did not smoke anymore. its been 6 months, and i finally got the suspention finished today. i went to drive it, it did not want to run very well at all, when i checked the fluids, there is water in the oil, and there is also oil in the radiator. the new top end only has about an hour on it, it has been ran in the driveway and not moved. i used fel pro gaskets, nice thick head gaskets. i sealed everything the way its supposed to be sealed... i can not figure out where this oil/water mixing is happenning. there is absolutely no smoke in the exhaust. but there is a small amount coming from the breather on the valve cover. it looks more like steam. seems as if the water is going straight into the oil pan. my question is, how can the oil get into the radiator????the radiator will not hold water, but i do not see a leak anywhere, its got to be going in the engine. im out of time today, i will be draining the oil and the radiator tomorrow. flushing the rad. for sure, but what next? please somebody help
oh i forgot, the plugs look black also, but like i said there is no smoke in the exhaust
more specifics here

[lt1s10]

i think you have some major head and or head gasket problems. the water is getting in the pan pass the head gaskets and the oil is getting in the radiator pass the head gaskets. thats where id look. could be getting water in the pan from the intake gasket but i dint see how the oil would get in the rad. from there.

[CamaroCliff]

i figured on the head gasket, but these gaskets are brand new. maybe too thick of a gasket? they are felpro and they are thick. suckers were 32 bucks a peice. the heads are iron eagles.

[Thunderbucket]

Ok,,,youv'e got an hour on the engine since new top end??

Oil in the water will come from vaccume created by the cooling system as the motor cools down.
Heat= expansion......Cold= contraction.
Sounds like youv'e got a head torque problem ( may need to be re-torqued,,,,at least that's what i do after the first couple of hundred miles of running,,,In my opinion it's standard proceedure to re-torque after installing new heads and gaskets.
Take out your spark plugs and look at them,,,,make note on which plug is very clean,,,this one will be the cylinder where the water is getting past the head gasket.
It's not uncommon to have this kind of thing happen after new heads and gaskets installed.
That is of course if the head is not warped.
also,,,try running the engine until it warms up,,,* with the radiator cap removed,,,then look at the cross flow of water in your radiator,,,,if it is leaking compression noticably , you will see the bubbles in your water/coolant.
If it is just a small leak past the head gasket,,,,you will not notice much,,,,but the vaccume draw of the coolant system will pull oil past the head gasket as it cools down.
For my money,,,i'd re-torque the heads first and run the tests.

[lt1s10]

Originally posted by CamaroCliff
i figured on the head gasket, but these gaskets are brand new. maybe too thick of a gasket? they are felpro and they are thick. suckers were 32 bucks a peice. the heads are iron eagles.

no, the gaskets are not to thick. i under stood you to say that the pan had water in it, the radiator want hold water because it is going into the pan, there is oil in the radiator,and steam coming out of the valve cover. to me thats a dead give away you have a major head gasket problem. if there is water in the oil then go back to what you just did to the motor and youll more than likely find the problem. JMO

[CamaroCliff]

thanks, i will try checking the torque on the heads, and the plugs also. any other suggestions? there were some bubbles in the radiator, but i couldnt see it too well because the water was going down as fast as i could fill it up.

[Thunderbucket]

Ok,,,now we are getting somewhere,,,,you need to stop what you are doing and grab yourself a beer,,,,cos you have more than just a little gasket leak going on here,,,,,(the water was going down as fast as i could fill it up.) your gonna cook your mains for sure,,,,,strip it down and start fresh.
If you can't see where the water is leaking off too,,,then it's going into the oil pan, or straight into the combustion chamber and out the exhaust,,,,either way,,,,BAD NEWS.

Originally posted by CamaroCliff
thanks, i will try checking the torque on the heads, and the plugs also. any other suggestions? there were some bubbles in the radiator, but i couldnt see it too well because the water was going down as fast as i could fill it up.

[CamaroCliff]

i have a compression tester, should i be checking all 8 again? that would narrow down a compression leak. this engine was producing about 150lbs of pressure in every cylinder after the heads were installed. my cam is a lunati .515/.515 lift 300*adv dur.

[Thunderbucket]

It would have been helpfull to know about the water disappearing as fast as you could fill it, this would have changed any advice given by the members,,,,,something to think of for the future.

[CamaroCliff]

its definately going into the pan i dont think any is getting in the chamber though because there is absolutely no smoke. but that doesnt explain the black plugs. the oil level is high, and it is milky, light colored, and thin ....not good for castrol gtx 10w40 with very little time on it.
there is no other place that oil could get into the oil besides the head gasket is there?? i dont want to overlook somthing silly.

[Thunderbucket]

Dont do anything more ( running your engine ) chances are,,, you may have done some harm already.........If it's not something simple,,,like a blown frost plug,,,,then it'll be internal,,,,and if you stand any chance at all of keeping the repair cost down,,,then,,,,dont run it any more,,,,,,Just strip it down,,and find the problem.

[Thunderbucket]

I'm trying to play catch up with your post's here,,,,,it's possible you may have a blown head gasket,,or a cracked block,,,or a warped head.
Like i said before,,,there is no point in running this motor anymore...it's got to come apart.

[Ives Bradley]

If u need convincing run a comp test on all 8. I think u will end up taking the engine apart at least partially. Ives rdhotfrd

[CamaroCliff]

i beleive it... "!!i cant beleive it!!!!!" also. its obvious to be a major problem. i just wondered if there is another point in the engine where the water/oil are capable of mixing because of the new heads/gaskets, ill be tearing it apart soon. who knows how long it will be before i can afford to fix it.... its been on blocks since i started the rebuild last january ( i was really looking forward to racing this spring. got a set of slicks sitting in my living room now. guess ill use the money i was going to buy the rims with on head work. sure hope its just the gasket. the heads are brand new @ $550 each. what a bad way to end a long year of building this thing. i have a victor jr intake i was planning on putting on there as soon as i get a holly to fit it. guess it will be a good time to do it all at once. i didnt want to run that performer/quadrajunk combo anyway, *temp fix untill i can get a holly. is there a way to pressure test the block/heads, like if i take it to the local shop for a "diagnosis" i want this motor strong, as i have nitrous to put on it when i switch intakes. it held up great before i switched the heads/cam. was very strong, even with the small amount of smoke from the valve seals. one more question. it has headers, into a y pipe, then straight pipe (2.5) back into duals with no mufflers in the rear. untill recently i put a flowmaster exhaust on the back end of it. that back pressure shouldnt be too much for ported heads (215cc with 64cc chambers and flat top pistons) would that have any effect on the head gaskets? or on anything else for that matter? this cam profile doesnt like to idle below say 1100 or 1200rpm. maybe i was better off without the muffler? it was extremely loud though, now its almost tolerable more of a rumble. i have made so many changes at the same time, its hard to narrow down, but i think if i can get this oil/water issue fixed, i will have a great start on a mean machine.

[Thunderbucket]

I guess i can say it for the rest of us,,,,,We hate like hell to be the bearer's of bad new's,,,especialy when it's a long time project like your's,,,,I personaly wish i where wrong,,,,but somehow i doubt that i am.
As to your question on where to take your motor for testing,,,,usualy a block is sent out to a machine shop capable of doing rebuilds,,and they then Magnaflux the block and run some other test's to find things which are not visible,,such as stress fractures in the block and heads.
At the rate of water loss you described,,,it shouldnt be that hard to find the cause,,,and of course,,,once youv'e got antifreeze/coolant into your oil,,,it will attack the main bearings,,,i wouldnt trust the same set after that anyway........
It may take you longer,,,,,but you'll get there.
Good luck!!!