Centerline Convo Pro wheel issue

My brother just purchased me a set of Convo Pros for my Corvette for my birthday! :3dSMILE: Today the fronts arrived and I noticed the hole opening for the wheel studs were fairly large and there was no taper. I was like WTF? I had spoke with Jeggs before we placed the order and they assured me the wheel center required a taper style lug nut. Cool, that's what I have now. I also asked about the rears as my wheels have holes for 5/8" studs and use a flat washer and non tapered nut. He had no idea. I called Centerline and they said my current lug nuts will work. Now, today when I call asking about the fronts, which isn't a big issue. They say the fronts require shanked lug nuts. But then the guy tells me the rear do as well. Uh WTF? The rears won't be here for another week and a half and their specs are that the holes for the studs are just barely bigger than 5/8" which tells me the wheel will go over the 5/8 studs. The tech advisor told me I'd have to either install smaller studs in my axles or return the wheels and buy some of their competition wheels. Yeah, not happening. :LOL: He did tell me that guys still run the flat washers and nuts like I have but he doesn't recommend it. So do any of you have any experience with this issue? The guy told me they quit machining the centers for the convo pros 10-15yrs ago for flat washers. I have 2 friends that got some maybe 4 years ago and they were. I'm betting it will work fine, I'm just nervous. :LOL:

I ran a set of convo pros on a 71 el camino and they used shanked nuts. The holes were not tapered. That was in the mid eighties when they first came out. I don't know what they use now. I would go with what center line tells you. I ordered nuts, washers with them.

I can tell you with shank nuts you have to watch the depth of the shank. I bought them then had to cut some of the shank off as they hit the drum and did not hold the wheel tight. Just something else to check

Times 2 with what Charlie said. Gotta be careful the shank doesn't bottom out. I added longer studs (1/2") to take full advantage of all the threads and found that some of the shanks would extend beyond the depth of the wheel.

Also, after a cruise or two, verify the torque value. By then they stop needing to be "taken up" .

Convo's use the shank nuts. Washers and nuts are a "close, but no cigar" deal....over time it will put undue stress on your studs, and wallow out the holes in the rim.

Dave just to be clear. The shank nuts and washers came with the convo's . I ran them for around 20 years and never had a problem. Both drag racing and street. Do you know if they changed the nuts for them. Just curious.

Hank

Yes, the shank nuts with washers are the only right way to run them. I use the McGard shank nuts, very good fit and they come with the washers in the package!!!! I believe the OP is talking about any old washer with the right size hole and a regular wheel nut---not a good way to do it.

Thanks Dave, I agree.

Uh, no, I'm not referring to a regular old nut and a washer. They are the pieces that came with my Moser axles with drag studs. I just measured a shank type lug nut and they measure the same as studs in my axle. As long as there is a flat surface on the wheel for the washer and nut to seat, I don't for see an issue. But, a shank style lug nut isn't going to happen on a 5/8" stud. And the only thing the shank nut is doing over the studs I have are maybe center the wheel, but the studs are doing the same since they are the same size as the shank lug nuts. I guess I'll have to see how it goes because my Cragar 5 stars on the car are set up this way and they have seen many passes above 125mph with no issues.

The rear wheels showed up today and fit just like my old cragars. I could run them and not worry, but I came up with a way to help center the wheel since the shank lug nuts aren't being used. I have to run a spacer on my axle so the wheel will clear my brake caliper. I am going to have a new spacer made that snugly fits over my wheel studs. In the center I'm going to have a step so the wheel will be supported and centered just like a hub-centric wheel. This should eliminate any issue with the wheel not being centered. There is ample flat surface for my washers and nuts to seat on, so that won't be an issue.

New wheel
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...417_121322.jpg

Old wheel
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...417_121438.jpg

Should be a good lookin' combo! I wouldn't run any wheel that doesn't fit on the hub register! So your idea is definitely a good one imho...

The old wheels didn't either. I figured the new spacer will make it perfect and it will be no different than any hub centric designed application. Those lug nuts have a flat washer built into them to seat against the wheel to spread out the load.

You need to be aware of the fact that those wheels were designed and tested to meet certain specs and that was with the shank type nuts----Probably would be disqualifying at the track and also maybe even worse when used on highway---liability issues??????????

Please tell me how a shank type lug nut is going to change this situation here? The shank lug nut is centering the wheel on the wheel stud and takes up the gap from the wheel stud to the wheel hub area. A shank type lug nut also uses a flat washer under it's shoulder. Also, my wheel studs measure the same as a shank type lug nut. I've spoken with 3 different NHRA techs and they say the way I'm going to run it (Without a hub centric type spacer behind it) is how all the guys running these wheels is doing it with 5/8" studs and no one is having an issue with it. I also called Moser and asked them how others are doing it, and they told me the same thing. So, I can't see it being disqualified on a track, and that means we would have lost a wheel on the car by now street or track as this is how my previous wheels go on. I've never had an issue with the back wheels shaking or coming loose with the lug nuts being used here.

So are you saying I need to drop back down to teeny tiny wheel studs and run a shank lug nut so my wheel studs can shear when I do a whole shot jacking around?

No Ryan---I'm not telling you anything because it would be a waste of my time---I'm telling the other 30,000 members that there are SFI specs for wheels and fasteners-------------------

I agree with you 100% Ryan. If the shank on the lug nuts measures the same as your lug bolts then the lug bolts provide exactly the same function as a smaller lug bolt plus the shank style lug nut. As a bonus you don't have to worry about the depth of the shank bottoming out before the wheel is tight on the hub. You're good to go, in my opinion, and there is no way that you have any increased liability. In fact, a 5/8" stud is going to be considerably stronger than the 1/2" lug plus the shank style nut, again, IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

No Ryan---I'm not telling you anything because it would be a waste of my time---I'm telling the other 30,000 members that there are SFI specs for wheels and fasteners-------------------

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Well I'm glad I'm a waste of your such important time.....................

Ryan---you asked in post #1 if any one had any experience with this issue---several guys answered----------


Now you have posted pics of the new wheels and I simply stated about the SFI specs-------If you go back to the early days of custom wheels and check out the history of all the SPI specs that the aftermarket manufactures have to adhere to you will discover that it began with wheels.


It seems to me that an issue here is that the Moser axles you have are the inferior parts in that they don't center your wheels.


It also seems that the Centerline guys told you numerous times about the lugs





You have some mismatched parts in a very critical area and it could effect not only your safety but the safety of other competitors, spectators or folks on the road ways-


Please be calm and thoroughly check it out completely beyond the slightest and most extreme possibilities---------


http://www.strangeengineering.net/hi...0-washers.html

Jerry,
You've mentioned SFI, and then SPI which I believe is Serial Peripheral Interface standards having to do with computers. If you look at SFI they very clearly state that they are a service to manufacturers, i.e.

Quote:

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The primary users of SFI standards, or specifications (specs), are equipment manufacturers whose products are tested and self-certified to the appropriate procedures. SFI Specs are included as part of the rules of race sanctioning organizations. Ultimately, the consumer benefits from the SFI program because it establishes recognized levels of performance or quality for a given product which results in a safer racing environment.

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SFI specs provide a QA/QC basis, but have nothing to do with the use of equipment. Now you can of course say that the wheel in question was SFI certified with the use of shank style nuts, but SFI doesn't say anything about using the wheel with oversize lugs. As far as a MOSER axle being "...the inferior parts" I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. MOSER axles are among the best products out there for extra duty applications, IMHO.

I think your application is fine, Ryan.

#1- The guys that answered were not running 5/8" studs, they were running stock type studs.

#2-You keep bringing up SFI specs. That's great, the SFI spec isn't being changed here because of the fastener. The shank lug nuts these wheels are designed to run still retain a flat washer just as the drag studs I have and the shank lug nuts measure what my studs measure. The Strange link you posted has a different 5/8" kit with the thin sleeves that my Moser ones do not run. So if anything, I need to look into getting the sleeves as my centering devices.

#3-After looking at this, it probably isn't the Moser axle that is the issue, it probably is the fact that I have to run a spacer inbetween my axle and wheel to keep the wheel from hitting my brake caliper. I never noticed the wheel centering issue until now.

#4-The safety. I want it 100% safe and that is why I asked. Like I said, the way the Cragars were bolted on are how I keep being told everyone else is doing it and I want to make sure I do this correctly because if one of those wheels comes off it is game over. There has been no issue yet and this car has made several passes with a heck of a lot of torque. But, I don't want to give a reason for failure either.

Roger---I edited the spelling


I agree with you that The Moser axles/products are some high quality pieces and I have used lots of them ( too bad he had to die in that plane crash) They are my second choice behind Strange (located here in Northern Illinois) and Summers Bros are on the west coast------------


I believe that Ryan intends to run this car on the strip and it is a very altered vehicle with that diesel engine which would require it to fit a higher level of specs before being allowed on track---------I was pointing out some very basic points which I believe that with my experience and background I am very highly qualified ---------I have been on the receiving end of a faulty axle and seen others also------ Herm Peterson is just one example---he knows he is extremely blessed to be alive with severe burns on his hands and face--------there was also a fan killed a few years ago from a wheel failure on I think it was Anton Browns top fueler at Pomona???


Almost all of the required parts on the todays drag cars have to be recertified to the SFI specs annually--------


I don't care if in your opinion that Ryan's application is fine----------but I would appreciate it if you'd edit your post changing your slant that YOU think in YOUR opinion its hunka dori and that JERRY is wrong-------


I have posted in this thread not only to call Ryan s attention to these facts but all the members that are reading the thread----


Maybe Tech will answer since he was an NHRA inspector his opinions

Yes, I intend to run the car on the strip at some point again. It will be with the Cragar wheels and street slicks I am taking off. The Convo Pros will be ran on the street. I like the look of the convo's and don't want to be prematurely wearing out the expensive quick times, so we decided to just get a second set of wheels and tires so each has it's purpose. And, I started this thread asking questions purposly to try and make sure I am doing it correctly. If you go back and read the replies, not one person used 5/8" studs like mine. They appear to be all pretty stock type cars which would be a no brainer with the shank lug nuts. And I didn't find out about this issue until after we ordered the wheels. The sales person at Jeggs said they'll work fine with 5/8" drag studs.

I still can't get over how you believe that the shank type lug nut is the only way for these wheels to be ran. You yourself posted a link to two different types of Strange type wheel studs. There will be no issue once I have something to center the wheel on the axle.

Ryan-----most wheels had a 11/16 hole and that's why the thin wall spacer in the Strange stud package-------some very early/mid 60s wheels were 5/8 but shortly all went ti 11/16 except for the ET with the uni spacers----------


Please check those holes in the wheels very carefully because I think you will find that they are 11/16----

I'll check it for sure. And if they are, a simple sleeve like the strange kit had would work to fill the void. That plus a spacer correcting the wheel centering, and I should be golden. Correct?

I just checked and the shank size is .680-----------also couldn't you get a pair of wheels with the back spacing that would clear your brakes and not need a spacer??????????

Jerry, it would have to be a custom wheel because my caliper sticks over the edge of the axle and the wheel center hits the caliper. Kind of a down fall of the OEM Corvette calipers from what I have noticed.

Maybe I can get to see that thing run sometime---do you go to the World Series Drag Racing at Cordova?

I haven't taken it there, no sir. I went to the World Series before I got the car done though. Definitely a nice race. I kind of got busy and quit racing the car as I was having trans issues and we got busy with our side business and then all of a sudden I have 3 kids so racing kind of went on the back burner. I think we have the trans issue figured out, but when we took it out last fall to test it and 2 injectors stuck closed. The fuel got algae in it probably from sitting with the fuel additive I was running. It is a cetane booster and I found out it promotes algae growth which is not good in diesel. Needless to say it got parked in the shed and has been not used. Now we're getting ready to make the car actually street legal. I never got around to putting head lights on it or turn signals. It was mainly a drag car and we drove it on the street to car shows. (With the proper insurance) :LOL: I'd like to get it to where the car can be driven where ever instead of a trailer queen. The narrow tires on the front are sketchy with all the pot holes so a taller wider tire is going on up front and sportsmans or something radial in the rear in case it rains. Haha

When you get it ready to run send me a PM---Iowa is just across that creek down the west side of Illinois

Will do. It's been to Byron a couple times. They usually have a diesel thing my brother takes it to. I'll have to see if they are doing it again this year.

Byron for sure--its only an hour or so----they even let me into the tower!!!!!!!!!!good burgers too---will be on me!!!!

Here's what I cam up with............. Jerry, you're right the shank style lug nuts are .680. My studs are .680 where the wheel resides and are 5/8" at the threads. The hole openings in the wheel are .700. So if Centerline has a .700 hole and uses a .680 shank lug nut, I'm not seeing how my .680 stud isn't serving the same purpose as the shank lug nut. The only difference is my shanked area doesn't thread in. My threads are further out. Here are the specs on the lug nuts center line makes I will have to get for the front.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cll-l5010/overview/

With all this being said, I do not see a problem with my set up. Centerline requires a .680 dia shank lug nut to be used on these wheels and these lug nuts use a flat washer to help spread clamping load. My studs have the same exact .680 dia and my nuts also have a flat washer behind them. I see no issue here once so ever.

Also the rear wheels will clear without a spacer which is good news. And I looked the wheels all over top and bottom as well as the box. They do not have a SFI rating on them anywhere. Any SFI part I've ever had there has to be a sticker showing what spec it meets and or has a date because that part has a time restriction as well. There isn't even a SFI spec machined into the wheel. And if you look on their site description for these wheels, it lists 3 wheels as being tested to a certain spec. My wheel isn't one of them.

http://centerlinewheels.com/wheels_d...d=34&sw_id=364

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...418_121823.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...418_121817.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...418_120843.jpg

And I badly need to clean the axles and calipers and touch them up. That stuff was all new not all long ago.

I'm glad everything is verified and the wheel clears the brakes---see you at Byron-----------

I'm glad too. Sending the wheels back and trying to pick another wheel wasn't looking like a fun option. :LOL: I'll let you know when that shindig is up there. My brother thought about taking it to Nebraska next weekend, but we agreed the car needs too much work to get ready to rush over there right now.

Congratulations, Ryan! Looks like you went from the Village Idiot to the Prodigal Son in less than a dozen posts!! ;):LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:;)

:LOL: I guess that's a part of hot rodding.