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....... another driver killed ......... that's three fatalities this year ......... two drivers and one spectator :CRY:
..... but Kudos to the Pro Stock drivers for taking their cars back to the pit area and refusing to run in the misting rain on an incompletely treated racing surface .......... someone has to stand up for driver safety .......... and it's definitely not going to be the NHRA :(:(
All I heard was a Top Alcohol driver, and in the shutdown area (again!)
Here's a video of it - sure doesn't look like rain:http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing...ory?id=5372090
Very sad. Video may be deceptive but it seems his speed was scrubbed off pretty well and did not look like that hard an impact, but sure did fold up that dragster. They need to set up those nets with some inertia reels so they have some give to them and still capture the cars. Not much flex in that one. Might also be time to consider a drag hook like fighter jets use.
exactly what i was thinking stu.
It was misting rain earlier in the day .........this footage was taken nearly 2-1/2 hours after the Pro Stocks left the starting lineQuote:
Originally Posted by IC2
If you've ever lived in the Seattle area (which I did from 1988-1990), you know about the morning fog and mist which will clear up as the afternoon temperatures rise ;);)
SOMEtimes..............:LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Coyote
I wish these kinds of things didn't happen, but that's racin'. I'm not sure NHRA has the resources to do a good forensic analysis for future cures. I've had the same thought as Pat about inertia reels on the nets, but also the "gravel" pit is pretty short, especially for those very wide slicks that don't seem to dig in as much. This track is about 7 miles or so from my house. It's long been a sore spot with the racers (big show ones anyway) because it's an old facility that may be one of the worst on the tour condition wise. It's had a spotty history the last couple decades with track management.
When that chute breaks away you just don't have a lot of slow down power anymore--gotta wonder if there isn't something could be done in the attachment method of them... an inertia system on the barrier would be great, think some of the old Air Force runways had them at one time?????
Anyway, it's a shame whenever somebody dies in a racing crash--but I guess danger and death has always and will always be part of the game. With all the new technology coming in to make the cars faster and faster it's going to cost track owner's a bunch to make the tracks safe enough to hold it the speed. Maybe till the track safety can get a chance to catch up it's time to limit all the 200+ mph cars to 1,000 ft. instead of 1,320??? Nothing I'm in favor of, but then something has to be done. Just too many drivers getting killed.
Maybe I should have said that the fog and mist "MIGHT" clear up with the afternoon heating :rolleyes::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter
I have raced on that track a few times and I will have to admit it was not one of my favorites ...... it was rough and had bumps even back in the '70's ........ and the surface never seemed to get corrected ........ length wasn't so much a problem for me as the altered didn't approach the speeds of todays cars ......... but, as you said, racing is dangerous and the competitors accept that risk, but it doesn't make the situation any less tragic :(:(
I've been trying to stay away from this one----but---It will be looked at very carefully
Some of the things about this accident---the owner built his own car----
Both chutes were attached at a single point so both failed, why??? because there was twice as much strain on the mount so when the failure occurred, both went---
The design of the front of the frame was wrong--there wasn't a balance of strength in the area just forward of the foot area of the cage and the whole front of the car folded vetical there instead of just collapsing from the front back--I read somewhere that the tubes folded into the cockpit and crushed him.
As much as I like to build my own stuff, there is an area that shouldn't be crossed---the regular builders of the dragsters and funny cars are a group that with SFI, NHRA and other builders consult, discuss areas of concern and methods---this car escaped that scrutiny and obvious to me had flaws that went un detected
Agree with you 100% Dave ......... something needs to be done ......... even if it means putting all the Pro and alcohol classes at 1000' :(:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Dave many bases certainly use those systems and all aircraft carriers do. They could be made for drag strips that are not nearly as heavy duty, as the cars are much lighter than airplanes. Maybe even some sort of elastic between the net and the attachment poles. Watching him hit that net just made me sick, he might as well have hit a concrete wall. That net appeared to be designed to protect whatever was beyond it, not the driver of the vehicle that went into it. As the old saying goes, "it's not the fall that gets ya, it's that sudden stop at the end." Anything that can make the stop softer would be an improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Pat
Mark, Rest In Peace..........
Wrong design or not, it still passed tech inspection...Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
As I watched the incident, it did not appear that he was going that fast and so my first thought was why did it collapse like it did and I have to agree with Jerry and that it could have been built better and safer. Even though it did pass inspection, they may decide to have more rules or whatever for the cage area to protect the driver.
I'll wager anyone that dual chutes won't be on a single mount ever again!!!!!
A dragster chassis is supposed to break between driver and engine and in front of foot area----this chassis did break in front of the foot area but pieces (according to some info I saw) speared Mark inside the cage area----
Top fuel went thru a lot over the past several years---not just moving to the rear engine after Garlits lost his foot---a few items--after Herm Petersens accident at OCIR, full floating axles, no flip top fuel fillers, tanks to front of chassis---then there was another accident at OCIR where a car got upside down and under the guard rail--then dual guard rails and soon smooth concrete walls
Wings-----lots happened there
front tires-----
Rear bead locks
blower restrainsts
dual chutes
Normalized/heat treated tubing ???? for certain parts
list goes on and on---
however---this car had parachutes that were too big and they were on a single mount, it wasn't getting inspected in tech ( only an alky car) and all the attention is over in the big guy teams ----Force has all kinds of research going on, Shumacher also(John Medlin) they have there own chassis people
the tech inspectors have a tendicy to visit and check dates on seat belts and driver suits, not look at all the stress areas---usually a imperfection doesn't get noticed till there's a failure---this is what has to be changed
Wow I thought he would have been going faster then he was for his car to fold up like that after hitting the net. I thought those car were stronger structualy then that.
It's sad in any case though. Do you guys think there was a frame flaw that caused his car to fold like that?
Yes, most likely more than a few
Glad you didn't stay away Jerry .......... you bring an insight that most of us don't have ......... in that you've been there, done that :cool::cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
Thanks for chiming in ;);)
When car cert in a shop,why can't they be inspected the same way at the track inspection??.NASCAR has personnel at pit stops and for the live of me I don't understand why NHRA doesn't do the same thing.Chute packs should be under their direct observation by NHRA people.Stress areas should be inspected between rounds on car that go over a certain speed.Some of these things can and should be prevented before the cars stage.
Probably volenteer helpers----no one would tell the builder of a car that they didn't like something---
Also--as the race goes on---its get it to the staging area/starting line--maybe the other guy will light the red blub and other guy gets a free round---but if that doesn't happen, its a all out run
front of car---body isn't off of car at races and doesn't get looked at--even between meets/maybe seasons
If you have a chassis by one of the certified builders---I guarantee that as they walk around the pits/lanes, they look over cars to see how they're doing---even the competion
Another 1000 feet of shut down area and it's a moot point...he would have rolled safely to a stop.
Another 1000 feet and maybe he would of rolled to a stop, but---his chute mount failed, both chutes, one mount---is that the way any one on here would of built that car???
He would of probably rolled to a stop with just one chute, but he had two big ones and they caused the mount to fail
Can't say I've paid attention to the fuel cars chute mountings..are they mounted to separate points?
good question yellow. was wondering that myself.
Found it......
NHRA General Regulations 4.8.
If outlined in Class Requirements, mandatory to have a braking parachute produced by a recognized drag racing parachute manufacturer. Scrutineers may observe the proper operation of the parachute and inspect for worn or frayed shroud lines, ripped or dirty canopies and worn or ragged pilot chutes. Parachute cable housings should be mounted solidly to frame tube or other suitable member no further back than 1-inch (2.5 cm). The release housing must be attached within 12-inches (30.5 cm) of the parachute pack and in a manner that will allow the inner cable to release the chute. When supercharged and/or using nitromethane as a fuel, it is mandatory that the parachute pack and unpacked shroud lines be protected with fire-resistant material from the mounting point into the pack. Parachutes must have their own independent mounting. The use of ball-lock pins for parachute mounting prohibited. See Class Requirements regarding use of two parachutes. Such applications require separate shroud-line mounting points for each parachute system.
So one wonders how Nivers car passed tech.......
he could of had separate mounting points for them, but the bigger structure was the same--
also, it could of been parachute failures---they really popped open and in a high angle--
Pretty sure Jerry could tell you as well as others,but the first time I let a chute go,I thought damm the thing didn't release for a moment.That was while the pilot was deplored and once the chute did open,it was like hitting a brick wall.It was in a cross wind and then I was steering like the car was sliding towards the way the chute was open.It wanted to pull the car in that direction.Some chute openings can be kind of violent.Without a tight harness,my nose would have been up against the windshield.
Yep Big Daddy Don can tell you about that!!!
Thats why he had to have his eyes worked on,
His eye just about poped out of their sockets,
form them sudden stops.
Before we went to 3 inch shoulder harness, the 2 inch ones(even padded) would leave your collar bone area black and blue just from one chute at the 170-180mph range over a nights racing(usually 4 rounds---one qualifier and 3 eliminations)
I knew that if the belt was not set up right in it's mounting as for your hight that it could cause alot of stress on your back or shoulders.
But I had never thought about how wide the belt being would cause those problems but it makes sence now that you have said it Jerry.
Kurt
Another issue on this particular type crash---steering column design and mounting
NHRA has announced new specs for parachute mounts on top fuel, funny car, alcohol dragster and alcohol funny car
Jerry,
I am not sure where I saw this,but I seem to remember it on a jet dragster,but cylinders that where open to the air on front side and a trap door on the rear.Seems that way the chute would open fully faster.It has cross bars to pack the chute against it in the cylinder.