drag racing facts

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10-21-2007, 03:59 PM
jerry clayton

Look everybody----by Nitro's own data-- average 7200 REVOLUTIONS PER MINUTE----And 4.5 seconds--- his math is wrong--the run takes 4.5 seconds, not 4.5 runs per minute--there always has been 60 seconds in a minute--time is a constant-- it doesn't matter if the car goes 50 feet or all the way to the moon, it takes 4.5 seconds, thats 540 cranshaft revolutions, the drive shaft revolutions don't matter, this is a time related deal, gears, tire size, clutch/tire slippage is not a part of the equation
10-21-2007, 04:49 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

That's cool Skids......it won't be the first......Remember it happens differently during application than on paper. Wouldn't it be great if what was put down on paper were to really come true? Oh wait, the crew chiefs would work for a lot less :LOL: It's still a lot of fun to ponder and I'm glad to have worthy members step up and quiz what it's really all about.

Scientists in the 60's also proudly procalimed that the fastest quarter mile speed possible would be 6 seconds.... They based it on a lot of physics and matematics formulas and theories....
10-21-2007, 04:51 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Look everybody----by Nitro's own data-- average 7200 REVOLUTIONS PER MINUTE----And 4.5 seconds--- his math is wrong--the run takes 4.5 seconds, not 4.5 runs per minute--there always has been 60 seconds in a minute--time is a constant-- it doesn't matter if the car goes 50 feet or all the way to the moon, it takes 4.5 seconds, thats 540 cranshaft revolutions, the drive shaft revolutions don't matter, this is a time related deal, gears, tire size, clutch/tire slippage is not a part of the equation

If this is true, then if the tires are spinning or the clutch is set to slip then each cylinder still only hits 540 times in a quarter mile if it's done in 5.4 secs????
10-21-2007, 04:59 PM
skids72

Jerry: are you the same Jerry Clayton that campaigned the Keeling-Clayton cars back in the early '70s? I was in diapers at the time so didn't have an appreciation for the sport in those days....

Anyhow, I wanted to let this one die but I'll venture one last illustration (my own personal character flaw of trying to get the last word):

Take a motor, any motor, put it on a stand in a shop and run it 4.5 seconds at 7200rpm, how many times did it turn over? Answer: 540... how many times did your timing light flash? Answer: 270

Take the same motor put it on a rocket ship to the moon... same deal run it at 7200rpm for 4.5 seconds. How many times did the motor turn over?

Take the same motor put in a top fuel dragster...

etc, etc, etc....

I know there is inherent slippage and I don't think lockup ever occurs in a TFD. The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter... how many times does the motor turn over in 4.5 seconds?

I don't know how big TFD tires are but lets figure 35" for the sake of argument (I know even at that they grow considerably as they spin so let's not go there)...

Simplified model: circumference = 35"*pi = 110" = 9'2"
Quarter mile = 1320'
Revolutions of this hypothetical tire (with 100% traction) in a 1/4 mile = 144

All this is beside the point of how many times the motor turns over...

Sorry to beat a dead horse one more time...

-Chris
10-21-2007, 05:01 PM
skids72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

If this is true, then if the tires are spinning or the clutch is set to slip then each cylinder still only hits 540 times in a quarter mile if it's done in 5.4 secs????

No... if the average engine speed is still 7200rpm, then it would turn over 648 times in 5.4 seconds... nothing up my sleeve, this is just basic math
10-21-2007, 05:02 PM
jerry clayton

No---he gave an example of 4.5 seconds for the run-------in 4.5 seconds an engine turning 7200 rpm will turn 540 revolutions period.....the engine turns 120 revolutions per second , in 5.4 seconds it will turn 648 revolutions

This is strictly a revolutions per minute broken down into time in seconds--distance, gearratios, tire size, slippage, spinning has nothing to do with it

Jerry
10-21-2007, 05:07 PM
jerry clayton

everybody typing at the same time!!!!!

Yes Skids, thats me

I agree, there is too much misconception about the physics/math in racing and I think this is a simple matter where people can't see the forest because of the trees

Jerry
10-21-2007, 05:12 PM
skids72

Jerry,

Great to make your virtual acquaintance. I've seen pictures of the cars along with reading as much as I can find of the period... must have been very interesting times as things have evolved since the 50's.

-Chris
10-21-2007, 05:19 PM
jerry clayton

Virtual??? That sounds like smoke and haze!!!!But yep top fuel, funny cars, pro stock, some work with stock block Indy cars, late model dirt stockers, go karts for my boys, comp eliminator BA/A ,
I regularly check on ScaleAutoMag forum for guys working with the models of my cars, and also am on ClubCobra from the same people that put ClubHotRod on

Guess one of these days I'll do a new guy post so everybody can know

Jerry
10-21-2007, 05:22 PM
nitrowarrior

Man a lot has happened since I stepped away from the computer. It was an attempt to show from the outside back inward. I did not make myself clear and yes the way I posted makes it all messed up. I am diligent in trying to show that virtual and literal runs have a variance. I apologise to those who got misled. Readouts for total revs still show our most consistantRPM travel time during the run at an average of 1600 total. Why that makes a difference? Finding the flares in the Band width and matching driveshaft speed at clutch kick in and tire speed matching what was estimated for down force at the rear tires.
10-21-2007, 05:24 PM
nitrowarrior

Then again, Why am I trying to prove something to a lot of nay sayers who don't race nor have had the real experience of doing it day in and day out........I need my head examined.
10-21-2007, 05:26 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by skids72

Jerry,

Great to make your virtual acquaintance. I've seen pictures of the cars along with reading as much as I can find of the period... must have been very interesting times as things have evolved since the 50's.

-Chris

Like I said, not much on the math. I usually skipped math class and spent my time in auto shop!!!! Just seems there should be more to the equation.... Besides, as a sophmore I had math class right after American History. I was terribly in love with my history teacher, so for math class my concentration was still back on history!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Last two years of high school I got on "work release", I think they called it something else, but anyway I had 3 classes in the morning, then went to work at 1PM....worked for a Hot Rodder who ran a gas station, all thoughts of school vanished. Fortunately when I finally got around to going to college, I actually started to pay attention!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
10-21-2007, 05:28 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

Man a lot has happened since I stepped away from the computer. It was an attempt to show from the outside back inward. I did not make myself clear and yes the way I posted makes it all messed up. I am diligent in trying to show that virtual and literal runs have a variance. I apologise to those who got misled. Readouts for total revs still show our most consistantRPM travel time during the run at an average of 1600 total. Why that makes a difference? Finding the flares in the Band width and matching driveshaft speed at clutch kick in and tire speed matching what was estimated for down force at the rear tires.

ummmm. You wouldn't have a couple of those speed transducers for driveshaft and tires, along with the software that I could like, "borrow" next summer to get the cars dialed in, would ya?????:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
10-21-2007, 05:30 PM
nitrowarrior

hhhmmm.... I might....you still slingin' dirt? They work well for that kind of data gathering too.
10-21-2007, 05:38 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

hhhmmm.... I might....you still slingin' dirt? They work well for that kind of data gathering too.

Nope. Still do a little bit of sponsorship, but I've found the best way for me to stay out of a sprint car is to stay the heck away from the race track!!!! I think my guy that drag's the Comet (Super Gas) wants to move up to a Fox bodied car, so I suppose it'll be back to dialing in a new car.... We've ran this one since '97, not a lot of surprises on the tuneup anymore!!!!!! Rodney seems to think we may be a bit overdue on modernizing our operation!!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Go Figure!!!!!
10-21-2007, 05:49 PM
skids72

.............
10-21-2007, 06:09 PM
jerry clayton

Nitro--I have done it

Have you?

Jerry
10-21-2007, 06:18 PM
nitrowarrior

uummm....yep 27 years wirth three marriages.....it's time to slow down and not go after it like the old days, By I'm still in the game. 5 times, this passed summer I have been hired to go and be an advisor. one Pro mod, two Alcohol, On pro stock and 1 fuel funny. I afmit that the time spent away costs me in the techno feilds. I am pleased that My integrity to make it work supplies me some time to go and play and my family doesn't suffer
10-21-2007, 06:21 PM
jerry clayton

Please PM me with your name--I asked earlier but you didn't respond

Jerry

GMClaytonRacing@msn.com
10-21-2007, 06:44 PM
nitrowarrior

I don't throw my name out there because I am not your John force or Coniie kalitta type of guy. I run in the background making things come together. Never havebeen one to stand on a soap box and thump my chest yelling "Look at me"......so many guys are in the trenches who get no fame or glory. WIn lose or draw. They are more deserving than I.
10-21-2007, 06:57 PM
jerry clayton

I can respect your wish for annomy? I am not one to stand on a soap box and beat my chest either---however I cannot stand by and let a idea get exponded on that is wrong. I know that what you were trying to say was an answer to that post that has been out about the numbers on a top fueler---but what you wrote took it in the wrong direction--You have my email, I'd like to meet you sometime--if you get up to Rt 66 for the race let me know your coming.

Jerry
10-21-2007, 07:07 PM
Henry Rifle

Since I haven't commented . . .

Assuming that an engine turns a constant 7200 RPM for 4.5 seconds, it will make exactly 540 revolutions. (7200/60) x 4.5 = 540. We all know those assumptions are silly for a TFD, but under those assumptions, that math is correct.

As for dividing 7200 by 4.5, that math has no meaning. If you look at the units (dimensional analysis), they are Revs/minute. If you divide that by 4.5 seconds, the final units would revs per minute-second, which doesn't represent anything in particular.
10-21-2007, 07:39 PM
jyardgirl

wow! i am glad that i finally started a thread that has gotten so much discussion. I am learning so much.:)
10-22-2007, 04:44 PM
skids72

hey barb,

Good discussion starter but we're just arguing the minutia... nothing terribly relevant... the main point is you can't always believe everything you read on the internet while some facts seem plausible, the reality is usually more complex.... thanks for getting the ball rolling though.

-chris
10-22-2007, 06:40 PM
jyardgirl

hubby has posed a question. The corvette is traveling 200 mph when he passes the tree. what is his time in the quarter. in other words how long does it take to run a 1/4 mile if you are traveling at 200 mph at the start. as you can tell math is not my strong suit.
10-22-2007, 07:15 PM
Henry Rifle

4.5 sec

(.25 mi / 200 mi/hr) * 60 min/hr * 60 sec/min

Looks like a tie, huh? :LOL:
10-22-2007, 07:22 PM
HOTRODPAINT

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyardgirl

hubby has posed a question. The corvette is traveling 200 mph when he passes the tree. what is his time in the quarter. in other words how long does it take to run a 1/4 mile if you are traveling at 200 mph at the start. as you can tell math is not my strong suit.

Is he holding that same speed for the length of the track, or is he accelerating? It IS a drag strip, right? I'll assume he means running a constant speed.

If he is running 200MPH, that would be "200 miles per hour".

which would be the same as "800 1/4 miles per 3600 seconds"

Divide the 800 1/4 miles into the 3600 seconds...

...and you get 4.5 seconds
10-22-2007, 07:53 PM
BigTruckDriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

I don't throw my name out there because I am not your John force or Coniie kalitta type of guy. I run in the background making things come together. Never havebeen one to stand on a soap box and thump my chest yelling "Look at me"......so many guys are in the trenches who get no fame or glory. WIn lose or draw. They are more deserving than I.

John ,Ha ha he is a punk,lol, Just kidding! I know exactly where your coming from. The guys that were pushing nitro when it was the unknown ,NOW those guys are some BAD M F ers, big lack of a better term. Also it is unfortunate that the people that make them cars break and set new records dont get much attention, all thats seen is the guy stepping on the peddle.
10-22-2007, 07:57 PM
skids72

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyW

4.5 sec !! Hey, that means he's pulling 7200 rpm's. :LOL:

:rolleyes: I'll resist the urge to post exactly what comes to mind here, Denny :LOL:
10-22-2007, 08:21 PM
skids72

My crass and terse response would have the initials of Ford and Oldsmobile...

:LOL: :toocool:
10-22-2007, 08:31 PM
skids72

Crass is crass (crude, vulgar?) (as in F O) and terse is short, concise, to the point, (as in two letters F O)...

No offense intended that was just my knee jerk response to your obviously jesting post... :p :LOL:
10-22-2007, 08:37 PM
Henry Rifle

This equation is about all you need. . .

x(t) = 1/2 at2 + vot+ xo

Skids has seen it before. :D
10-22-2007, 08:45 PM
skids72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

This equation is about all you need. . .

x(t) = 1/2 at2 + vot+ xo

Skids has seen it before. :D

Yup... physics 101... good lead-in to diffy-Q... at my going rate for accuracy I'd probably end up throwing a random decimal place in there somewhere :LOL:
10-22-2007, 08:59 PM
skids72

Okay, Denny... I think you need to keep your pie smooching to yourself or at least just your roommates :LOL:

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