whose Chassis does everyone like?

Just trying to respond once in a while as I work out a time consuming job that should be done by September. I guess you have seen the picture of a
'33-'34 Ford Tudor (original) with a block under the left front wheel at the same time another block is under the right rear wheel? That shows the ability of the early Ford frame to twist although the front and rear axles are straight. That means that the early U-channel frames were designed to twist but when one uses a rigid boxed frame the suspension has to allow any such twist. I am quite pleased with the '29 Brookville frame I have since it is obviously jig welded and very straight but my four bar set up will have to handle any such twist. So what I am wondering is why you are avoiding a full boxing of the frame? With modern four bar suspension you can have strength and twisting ability. I guess the X-member weld-in kits help the strength a lot but you might also want to box the region near the engine mounts with a modern engine. The early original engine mounts bounced around a lot and often cracked the steel part of the mounts due to vibration from 4-bangers but maybe a V8 is a lot smoother. If it were me, I would box the frame in the front and around the X-member at least, but the width problem is something you have to work out yourself. I will say that my Bebops 'glass body mount holes are spot on the Brookville mounting holes. I have other problems but the frame is not one of them.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist?/Teen Rodder

The reason I'm not boxing is I'm using a 37 rear (single cross springand an original K member/39 tranny and a flathead V8.

Ralph, that sounds very good, exactly what I wanted to do but I could not find a good flathead. I still have a Merc 4" crank and rods but the North Pole is not close enough to talk about boxing and sending a crankshaft even if you wanted it. After the Internet settles down the next thing we need is a low cost Teleporter!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist (?)/Teen Rodder

More thoughts on Boxing. The more I look at it the more I am thinking I may have to box the front portion of the frame. The model A crossmember is full width, but it still does not go all the way to the flat sides of the rails, leaving a gap of about 3/8" in front and 1/2" in rear. Very hard to weld in with any kind of strength. Add in the fact that I need a solid place in which to weld the front motor mounts to, and boxing seems to be the best solution. But I cannot box the drivers side rail all the way back to the K member because I will be putting in a 56 ford truck gearbox. By the way, does anyone have measurements or a pattern as too the exact location of the steering box? Does it go in the same basic location as the original 32 box?

Since you have new, blank rails, you can just about put it anywhere you want. That being said, the "ideal" is to have the pitman arm in alignment with the rear mounting/pivot point of the hairpin/split bone/4 bar, whatever (unless you're using a stock style wishbone).
You might be interested in this to get, or use as a guide to making your own; http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/6002...temNo=91632021

I'm using 37 split wishbones. I thought about making a reinforcing plate for the box, but now that I see that one I will probably buy it. Especially since it has a wedge shape to it and would probably be difficult to make. Does anyone make aftermarket pitman arms in various lengths? I would also like to be able to put the common Ford tie rod end on the bottom of pitman arm and to steering knuckle to simplify things.

As I recall, the Belond headers for the flathead were not symmetric and there was a special shape for the left side to avoid conflict with the steering box so a mockup without permanent welding at first seems like a good idea; maybe with headers on the engine. I applaud the idea of making a '50s set up but maybe looking at old Hot Rod magazines in your local library could help recreate what was the de facto setup in the '50s. Also maybe the front boxing only has to extend 6" or so from the front crossmember since the flathead mounts are on the water pumps rather in the center of the engins as with the now-common SBC setup. I keep thinking a '76 SBC is "modern"!

Don Shillady
Retired (?) Scientist/Teen Rodder

Pretty much any hotrod shop has Pittman arms

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/GmSear...itleDescr=True

http://www.yogisinc.com/results.cfm/...93/product.htm

I see plenty of pitman arms for GM and Vega boxes, but no Ford's. But I haven't checked So Cal yet.

The '56 Ford steering box set up is an old "classic" but may be tricky to recreate today. As to the location, it might be worth a long distance call to Brookville in Ohio since they routinely set up various jigs for Model A and Deuce frames, I had several useful chats with them regarding trans mounts and location of either power or standard master cyllinder locations. However they may try to talk you into a Vega box with a '35 style cross-steer setup. Articles on Magoo's '29 on Deuce rails emphasize the good qualities of the cross steering configuration and on the A frame I have there is plenty of clearance underneath for the extra tie rod. Hey it sounds like you have a collection of some neat parts, but all I can say is that the flathead exhaust manifold was a tight fit on the left side and maybe a Vega box can give more clearance and a cross steering setup. You could say you car was built in '75 with a '73 Vega box and still have an "early rod"! If you investigate the history of the flathead you may find that the Granatelli-Fords in 1934 (all 3)lost the Indy-500 due to the steering box seizing up due to heat from the very close exhaust manifold!

Don Shillady
Retired (?) Scientist/Teen rodder

Start here and look around the rest of the site; http://www.verntardel.com/catalog/chassis.html

Good prices on some parts I need, but still no pitman arm. It is also nice to know that the 56 gearbox conversion fits in the same holes as the 32 box(according to the description of the adapter plate they sell) I do have a pattern of where the original 32 box holes were.

The Pittman arm you need can be found here: http://www.classicautopartsgroup.com...%22Steering%22

Part # FO3-4555-200 $89.95

That's a stock 56 pitman arm, I'm looking for one I can run a standard Ford tie rod end on the drag link.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

That's a stock 56 pitman arm, I'm looking for one I can run a standard Ford tie rod end on the drag link.

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If the problem is the tapered hole in the arm, Speedway has a reamer, p/n 910-89411 @$79.95, (and I do as well and no longer need )

I don't know if you could mod the original pitman arm to take a tie rod end. The 53-56 truck arm has the ball on the drag link end, which is bent up slightly from the end.You would have to cut that off and then drill/ream the hole. But then it might be too short, which would increase bump steer problems.???????

Ralph,
Is that ball bolted on as some vehicles have had in the past or is it forged as an integral part of the arm - obviously I'm not familiar with that pitman arm and I can't enlarge the picture. I also looked in the Mac's truck catalog as well but they don't have any picture.

What would prevent you from making your own pitman arm or do you have a dearth of machine shops in your part of AK. I does look fairly simple and a good grade of steel would do the job - again, I can't see enough detail.

The ball is forged as part of the pitman arm. Yea, my last resort will be to make a part, maybe I should just search the junkyards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

The ball is forged as part of the pitman arm. Yea, my last resort will be to make a part, maybe I should just search the junkyards.

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Ralph,
Probably anything that vintage has been crushed and sent to Japan to make new Toyotas and Hondas as for the most part has happened around here:CRY: . Good luck!!

I have a pete and jakes chassis under my car and am very happy with it. The only thing I would do different now is spend the extra money and get the american stamping rails (which they tried to talk me into but I was the one that didn't listen).

...... Yep, I'm also VERY happy with my Pete & Jakes Chassis! Bill

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

The ball is forged as part of the pitman arm. Yea, my last resort will be to make a part, maybe I should just search the junkyards.

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Ralph,

Not sure how your project is going - you need to pick up Mike Bishop's book, "How to Build a Traditional Ford Hot Rod" from your local bookstore or Amazon. You can also buy it from Vern Tardel at www.verntardel.com.

You don't need to box the front portion of the rails for motor mounts. If you use passenger car waterpumps the motor mount 'tabs' will be just behind the front crossmember. Plenty of places to weld to.

If you can, try to find a F1 box, '48-52, they are a little easier to run exhaust around. All the early Ford pitman arms are interchangeable. You can get one from a '35-41 cross-steer box, and slip it right on the F1 box, this has a tapered hole for your tie rod.

Also, the HAMB, at www.jalopyjournal.com is a little more traditionally oriented website. Lots of good info for your build over there.

Thanks for all the info, I did buy that book about two weeks ago. Although it is Model A oriented, it does have alot of useful information for building a 32 also. I just bought an original Model A front crossmember(opted not to use the aftermarket copy) and will install that and fab motor mounts as per the Vern Tardel book. I'm also going with the F-1 shock mounts, Model A headlight mounts-modified, and some of the other tips in the book. One question though, the aftermarket front crossmember had a 7 degree caster built in, if I go with the original model A crossmember how will that affect Caster?

Caster is going to be determined by the wishbones. If you are running an unsplit bone mounted in a stock K-member, the caster is going to be around 7-9 degrees. There is no adjustment other than cutting and welding the wishbone ends near the axle to change the caster angles.

The aftermarket crossmembers all claim that 7 degree number, but they are really only trying to reduce spring bind. The caster is controlled by the wishbones/hairpins/etc....

Here is a pic of a chassis I built like you are wanting to do....

Nice! I'm going with split wishbones, and I bought some mounts from So Cal that fit right on the bottom of the frame. They only drop about 1-1/2 from the bottom of the frame rail. I mocked up the Model A front crossmember yesterday and was looking at the caster. If I mount it flat to the bottom frame rail it leaves a gap at the top of the frame too large to weld/bolt(approx 7/16"), but if I tilt it rearward and up, the top lines up and caster looks right and the lower rear rivet holes look good, but the front lower rivet holes are about 7/16" off the frame rail. Now I could heat and bend those tabs and make them fit perfect, but is that right? Do you have more detailed pics of your front end?

I would say bend the tabs to make the bottom fit up like you want. I would make some filler pieces close the gap on the top, then weld it all up.

I've been looking at several frames and most of them have it flush or just below the top edge, taking into consideration the height needed to make the radiator shell and firewall line up properly.