32 Harwood roadster convertible top

[hb32]

Anybody have much success in finding a quality convertible top to fit a Harwood roadster? I am still tweaking mine to get it to fit properly, and will end up getting one piece of the frame powdercoated after receiving it with a different finish then the rest of the frame work. The manufacturer spent alot of time trying to make it fit my car and I think they finally got frustrated with my higher standards, I blame them on my aviation background. I guess, without them actually having the body, it was hard to properly tune it to look good. I am finding out that the one size fits all catch phrase does not apply here.
Just curious how the other style colapsible roofs follow the contours of the body and feedback from owners. Thanks, Roger

[C9x]

I run a set of folding top irons and oak bows from Wescott.
I believe they are made by Lebaron-Bonney and a touch cheaper there. (Part stainless and part painted.)

You can see a pic of the top on my 32 in the "New Guys" forum.
Just look for C9X.

The irons fold up just fine and if you leave the middle part unfolded and let the top's top section point straight up it will clear the roll bar. (The car has a 2 1/2" x .120 wall four point roll bar and it fits up under the top, behind the seat back cushion and there is no body cutting.
After you get it vertical, then you can fold it down to the normal location
The rear window is in the normal place and the rear view mirror view is unimpeded - cept for the smallness of the window.

Lebaron-Bonney will install the rear window, but it may be better if you do it.
That way, you can set the window height where you require.
Rear window installation is probably the most critical aspect of the top install. Don't cut the window opening out until the very end of the installation process.
Window install is one of the first things you'll do because the back panel goes on first.

The top proper is a kit from Lebaron-Bonney.
Hartz black cloth and it's a quality piece that's not hard to install.
(Only thing different I'd do with the top install is to buy or borrow an air stapler and use that instead of the copper carpet tacks supplied with the top. I did have to backtrack a couple of times and ended up running out of tacks, but was able to find aluminum carpet tacks at Home Depot. You don't want the blued tacks as they will rust and stain the top material after a while. All told, the top took about ten hours of easy work to install. It's not difficult, just read the instructions, then pull the pieces out of the box and ID them as you read the instructions again.

Tools required, upholstery tack hammer, Stanley (or Sears) staple/tack remover (looks a bit like a forked end screwdriver), pair of scissors and a few single edge razor blades.

Be very sure you cut what you want to cut when using the razor blade. There will be layers of top material at the end and you usually want to cut only the top layer.
Plus, don't let the blade wander into the top material off the oak bows. This is especially important when cutting the excess material on the rear oak bow.

One nice part about the oak bows is you can use masking tape to mock them in. In fact, I used electricians tape to mock the varnished bows in and drove around with them that way for a couple of days to see how the height etc. was gonna work out.
Use many strips of 3/4" masking tape to sorta duplicate the top material after the irons and bows are on. That will give you a good idea of how the top will look.

After deciding on the top shape - controllable by placement of the oak bows on the top irons - use #10 stainless sheet metal screws to install the oak bows.

I have about 35,000 miles on my top and a lot of it was at 70+ freeway speeds.

Top tautness can be increased a touch by tacking the front part to the windshield header bow with 3-5 tacks.
Chalk mark the tack locations and remove them.
Then crack the top open and pull the top material forward a bit (1/2 - 1") from where it was with the first set of tacks and tack it on again with 5-7 tacks.
Latch the top to the windshield posts and see how the tautness bit goes.
It will be tight, but not too tight.
It'll loosen up after a few miles as well.

Other recommendations - make a couple of lathe turned aluminum plugs to smooth out and remove the sharp point on the stock style w/s posts.
This will help if you have a cockpit cover or simply toss a tarp over the cockpit for weather protection.

Get a stainless allen bolt - standard head - and turn a point on it to match the w/s post hole where the stock style clamp bolts the top on.
The point should be sized to match the w/s post hole.
If there is an aluminum piece in the w/s post, drill it to accept the allen bolts pin shaped end.
This is a lot better way to retain the top than the stock shallow pointed Ford-style wing bolts.
I did have one side of the top come open on the freeway, but due to the wedge shape of my top, it wasn't a problem.

If you order a top kit from Lebaron-Bonney more than likely you'll get one that allows the rear window panel to swing up and snap under the top's upper surface.
This is important. In hot weather it will give you lots of air flow.

Be advised that most upholstery shops that do Model A & Deuce hot rod tops use the Lebaron-Bonney kit.
You can save a whole lot of money doing it yourself.
One shop quoted me an over $900. figure for a top - and I already had the irons & bows installed.
Seems like the top price was around $400. or so about 8-9 years ago.
The shop alluded to making a custom top, but I saw a Model A roadster they did a couple of months later and it was an identical top to mine.

[hb32]

Wow!!! Thank you very much for the wealth of knowledge. I had thought about the Lebaron-Bonney route at first but was some what convinced to go with a local manufacturer which I am overall not happy with. Its a generic system that you make fit your car and I have had alot of problems making it work. After numerous redos by the manufacturer they seem to have got frustrated with me ... just want it to fit and look good. I thought that the Lebaron-Bonney would not work on a 2 inch chop and was not sure if it was collapsible to store in the trunk. I will have to do some more research. Roger

[C9x]

Looking back over what I wrote, I see that the rear window install isn't too clear.

Installing the window in the back panel is one of the first things you do cuz the back panel goes on first.
The panel snaps onto snap receptacles s screwed into the cockpits oak rear rail.
The 'no-cutting' bit I alluded too was don't cut the material out of the window glass area until the install was finished or just about finished.
The window is held in by quite a few #6 (if I remember right) machine screws that thread into the outside frame.
They are screwed in from the inside.

Far as the window goes, you can order a glass window with the kit as I did, but I wouldn't do it again.
I would opt for cutting a rear window out of Lexan (brand name for Polycarbonate plastic) so as to cut some weight out of the back panel.
My glass window is hanging in there ok, but a lighter rear window assembly would be better.

You can get clear Polycarbonate at Home Depot and other like stores.
Use the same thickness Poly carb as the glass.

Do not use Plexiglass, it scratches up in no time and Polycarbonate doesn't.
I have a pair of windwings made from Polycarb and all I do to clean them is wash them when the car is washed.
They get mud and sand on them from time to time and they're still exceptionally clear.
Polycarb is used for aircraft canopies in jets as well as windshields in private planes.

Keep in mind that Polycarbonate - at least all the stuff I see nowadays - has an ultraviolet resistant coating so as to stop UV deterioration.
The coated side goes toward the sun.

As far as the allen head windshield post/top retaining bolts go, I meant to add, use a locknut to keep the retaining bolts in place.

Pay attention when you fold the top as well.
I don't do it often, most times as part of the top removal process, but I ended up with a 'too thick' package.
A friend of mine took one look, rearranged the padding a touch and it folded down much flatter.

Once the top is folded and if you run it at highway speeds you definitely need to tie the bows together and down to the body with something.
Leather straps and small hold-downs work well here. (Also available from Lebaron-Bonney.
If you don't tie it down, airflow will try to raise the top, then get inside and damage the top material as well as the top irons.
Sorta like popping the parachute before you're ready.

Haven't done this one, but it's easy to see the damage that could result from the top trying to pop open.

You'll also need a pair of the chrome plated pieces the top rests on when folded.

Note too that Lebaron-Bonney supplies two styles of top - besides all the material choices and colors.
One is called Gypsy style - that's the one that has the side panel go further forward and end in front of the angled legs that connect the rear oak bow to the cockpit rail.
The Gypsy style helps control air flow and is a help in colder weather.
The windwings in my 32 help keep cold air out of the cockpit as well.
A boon in low temps for a car that’s not much more than a rolling air leak.

I’ve run my 32 in several rainstorms and it does well even with no side windows/curtains.
A hard cross wind will blow rain inside, but it’s not bad.
Light to medium rainstorms are no problem - use Rain-X on the windshield, the little wipers on a chopped 2" w/s don’t do much.
Only problem on my 32 in heavy rain is a leak at the lower bottom w/s corners.
My fault cuz I cut the weather stripping at 90 degrees instead of 45.
Cut the stripping at a 45 or more so you can either overlap or butt glue the ends together.

Consider a heater as well.
I run one and running topless in cold weather it helps quite a bit.
Specially so for the passenger.

[hb32]

Once again thanks for the wealth of info. The Polycarbonate for the rear window is an excellent idea which I will pursue, is it available tinted? The heater option is one I am also working on. I have an old Arvin that I am restoring and have a part number for a 12 volt replacement motor but seem to have a bit of a problem finding one. As well I had heated seat panels installed on upholstery of the seat. Thanks, Roger

[C9x]

The Polycarbonate has a slight tint to it.

It's a fairly close match to my lightly tinted windshield glass.

[topsterguy]

Roger, we did EVERYTHING we possib;y could to make you happy including several trips to the mainland right to your house to make everything work, and you said it was fine more than once - at least when you talked to us. As far as the powdercoating goes it's simple for you to take that one piece to a powdercoaters and have it matched, a lot simpler(and less expensive) than sending it back over here and expecting us to do it all over, again and again. As far as not being able to deal with your "higher standards" because "you're in the aircraft industry" - give me a break. We stand behind our product totally and if there's a problem we make it right and accept the customers assurance that it's fixed to his standards - period. We have NEVER had the problems with a frame that you apparently had with yours. The last thing we heard from you was that it fit your body fine. I understand that you've had several problems with other people that have made parts for you, so maybe it's not the manufacturer? We don't like to see an unhappy customer but we did everything we possibly could to satisfy you, Roger, but apparently it still wasn't enough. Thinking about it that doesn't surprise me now.

[rocknrod]

Hey Topster, didnt I see your top on a beutiful black roadster at the L.A. Roadster show in Pomona ?
It had red leather interior. In fact I took pics of his interior for ideas on stichin mine. Anyway that top looks awesome, keep up the good work

[hb32]

Whoa Larry... slow down. As you can see I never used your name or stated where I got the roof from. I was only looking for opinions from people as to what they used on their cars. As to the problems I have been having, you have indicated to me that changes were incorporated in your design because of them. On the issue of the powdercoating, I feel the ball was dropped at your end in providing me with something that does not match what you originally provided and expecting me to fix it. Sure glad you worked out an agreement with the manufacturer of your 5 window body. Yes my standards are high and I have fixed some of the initial problems that I never even told you guys about. I even went as far as show casing your product to Jeff at El Mirage and relating how you stood behind your product in trying to make it fit. I was more then patient in working with you in trying to sort out the problems and went out of my way picking you up at at Ron Ford`s show bringing you to my place to aid on fixing the problems. I think your post is totally out of line and if this is the way you "stand behind our product totally and if there's a problem we make it right and accept the customers assurance that it's fixed to his standards - period" then its time for another look at bussiness 101. Roger

[topsterguy]

'nuff said - good luck on your car Roger.

[topsterguy]

Hey Rocknrod, thanks! Yeah, that's was Wayne Halabura's roadster - he's a premium hot rod builder in Saskatchewan and that was one really nice roadster! He sold it to somone down in the US. he's a meticulous builder and all his cars are top quality. Thanks again - we do the best we can!

[Don Shillady]

Maybe the topic of this thread has reached a level of mutual disagreement, and the air is pretty thin for me in this high-$ topic, but maybe someone can tell me about how to drill holes in the tops of '29 fiberglass doors for the side curtain rods? It seems to me that rubber grommets would cushion the holes even if the rods are steel, but maybe the best option would be to use wooden dowels along with rubber grommets in the holes so that wood might break before the 'glass as compared to the damage steel rods will do. My only experience with this is to recall examination of a Shay replica '29 which was somewhat shopworn and I recall noting how beat up the 'glass doors were. Glossed over in the discussion above was what is the effect of a 2" chop, in my case for a '29. I am considering purchase of a Brookville windshield frame and top irons but wondering about the effect of the chop on the top irons?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

[C9x]

Don,

If I was going directly down into the doors for the side curtain rod, I'd knock out a machined aluminum piece to take the wear.
A little epoxy on the underside after the paint's on would retain the aluminum sleeve to the glass door with no problems.

I've had very good luck with JB Weld in a number of applications and this would work very well here.

Not sure about the 28-29's, but the 30-31's have two different height windshields.
Same with the chopped versions.
You should be able to get the measurements from a Speedway catalog.

If you're using stock top irons and chopping them, you might try to get some measurements from an aftermarket set of chopped irons or from a stock set of irons chopped.

Chopped properly, they fold up just like stock.

Not sure if it can be done on a 29, but the 31's can be retro-fit with 32 windshield posts.
I've done that with my 31 roadster and it looks nicer (imho) than the A posts.
Along with that, we have the windshield pieces cut out and the lower windshield frame rolled to match the A body.

What makes this windshield different is that it's constructed from 1/2 x 1" rectangular tubing similar to the 32's rectangular in cross-section windshield frame.

A little nicer look than using the typical round tubing found on A frames. Imho anyway.

Not trying to make the 31 on 32 rails roadster into a Deuce, but doing a few different things is going a long way toward making it a one of a kind car.

You can go here and read about the windshield posts.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthre...b=5&o=&fpart=1

They're mentioned in the last post I did in this article.
Earlier post photos show the windshield posts on the car.

I'm known as C9 on the HAMB site.

[C9x]

Here's another bit of information about top irons.

I have a running 32 roadster as well as the under construction 31.
Measuring the cockpits of both shows they are very close in size.
Both transversely and longitudinally.
The only real difference is that the 31's cockpit is 2" shallower than the 32's and maybe an inch shorter longitudinally.
Easily handled with a little lower seat bottom cushion.

Since the cockpits are the same size - for all practical purposes - the use of 32 top irons looked possible.

The A windshield stanchions sit a little further back on the cowl than do the stanchions on the 32 and the slight difference in cockpit length make an adaptation of the 32 top irons easy.

There's about a 1/4" difference in cockpit width measured at the tabs the rear legs of top irons bolt to so spreading the 32 top irons here is no big deal.
The only other thing you have to do is cut the single front longitudinal bar that runs horizontally from top iron hinge area to the windshield header oak bow.
Depending on windshield lean-back (and you do want some so as to get away from the funky look) the cut should remove about 1 - 1 1/2".

Modifying the top irons like this is easy, but most importantly it gives the overall shape of the top a better look.
The lean forward component of the rear of the Deuce top as vs. the vertical component of the rear of the A top makes for a swoopier (to coin a word) looking top.
(The top of the 32 windshield posts on the A stanchions are about the same width as a stock - although chopped 2" - 32 so using the 32 front oak header works here.)

You can do some relocation of the top oak bows to alter the shape of the top at the rear as well as add a little bit of 34 roadster flavor with an even stronger lean forward component to the rear of the top.

Subtle mods, but they go a long way toward making a 'right' looking car.

To my eye anyway.

[Bob Parmenter]

Just a side note for those interested in "conventional" folding top frames. To my knowledge all the vendors buy the frames from the same place, whether it's Westcott, L/B, or whomever. The company is Girtz Industries, http://www.girtz.com/carparts/ At the time I bought the one for my '36 I got the best pricing buying from them directly. They also sell the oak bows, though they don't make those.