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I have been running a small Odyssey battery for some time and decided to build a new, smaller battery box for it. It gives me a few more inches of space in the trunk. After looking at it, I thought it needed something so I started looking for house numbers on the internet. Here is the finished box.
Creative solution Lynn!
I like it. :) Aren't those tiny Odyssey batteries amazing? Mine sits for long periods and cranks right up, and it is over 3 years old now.
Don
Those little batteries are pretty awesome. I originally had a different brand battery of the same size mounted inside the outer frame rail, but it couldn't take the heat. So I bought an Odyssey, moved it to the trunk and have had no problems since.
Does anyone know how the odyssey batteries compare to Braille carbon fiber batteries?
I don't know from personal experience, but they are the same type of design. A comparable Braille battery has more cold cranking amps than an Odyssey, but it also costs more. It appears the main difference is the Braille is made with carbon fiber while the Odyssey is made with fiberglass.
www.summitracing.com/parts/ODY-PC680/?rtype=10
www.summitracing.com/parts/BRL-B2015/
wow lynn that looks really great.
Very nice battery box, Lynn, and overall a very tastefully done trunk.
You might also check XS Power for future reference:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/XSP-S680/
They are in between on crank power, and just a bit cheaper. Calling them factory direct sometimes finds special pricing, including some free shipping. I believe their plates are just a bit thinner due to a bit higher purity of materials, and the mats are a bit thinner, giving higher plate area for a given volume.
This AGM market is fun to watch evolve. Over the past few years more apparent options have come about with competition. The thing to keep in mind is the production facilities for batteries in general are fairly expensive to build. For conventional lead/acid batteries there are basically three companies in the US that produce them, but hundreds of brands out there. Hmmmmm, all of them are produced in one of those three factories. And this is for the mature part of the market.
In AGM, to my knowledge, there is only one manufacturer, Hawker Co. They market a non-starter rated version of these batteries under the Hawker Genesis name, and their military grade, starter rated battery under the Odyssey name. The Odyssey brand comes out of a subsidiary company named Enersys, but it's still the same mother company/technology. If you look at the XS it's part number ends in 680, just like the Odyssey equivalent shape/size that's PC680. These same batts are marketed under a lot of other brand names such as Stinger, and others, often aimed at the stereo market for auxiliary power.
Then last week at the NSRA gig at Louisville there was a "NEW" product, named Hot Rod Battery...................hmmmmm, looks just like the two 680 versions discussed here. The case moldings are identical, the terminals are identical, and the specs, though there's some manipulation going on there, are pretty much the same. Personally I can't imagine that each of these resellers are putting up money to develope a better battery to be built by Hawker. I suppose it's possible, but unlikely.
The upshot is it looks like competition is doing to pricing what it does; stabilizes, maybe even lowers. A quick check of the net shows the bottom price for the 680 series, in various brands, is at about $130, with some deeper searching might be less. The Summit deal might end up being a plus given that they have a fairly low fixed shipping charge, and they occasionally do discount "coupons" on almost any product they sell. Others may or may not be as competitive on shipping. And something else important, given their size their inventory might turn more regularly, possibly ensuring a fresher battery. But it wouldn't hurt to check on that nomatter who you buy from.
Bob,
I was not aware of the Hawker Company being the one builder of AGM units - very interesting as you point out.
As I said in my earlier post, you might consider checking with the suppliers directly if you are shopping. When I contacted XS Power in March '10 their "special" was their S680 12V Combo Automotive Package, which included the S680 battery, SAE terminals (battery posts), and their 512 mounting box - I asked and they substituted their 511 Aluminum box which fit my needs better, all for $119 delivered to my door via FedEx. Summit offers the S680 which is the regular battery in a steel sleeve case, plus SAE terminals, but no mounting box. I cannot assure that you will get such a deal every day (or even today :LOL:), but that's what I got in March.
The information about metal purity and plate thickness came from the tech guy at XS Power - not unusual for them to bash the competition a bit, right??
Good score Roger! Pops will be very envious.
XS has another battery line that is even smaller. We first saw them a couple years or so ago at SEMA. Ken Thurm was especially interested in the technology and was going to follow up with them. Maybe he'll see this and comment.
The verbage the XS guy gave you is almost verbatum from the Hawker literature.:D I've seen the same thing with some of the other suppliers, which is part of what convinces me they all procure from Hawker. Here are a couple of the Hawker brochures for your entertainment.
http://www.commutercars.com/downloads/HawkerGuide.pdf
http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...S-004_0209.pdf
Bob,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter
Yes, I talked to the XS tech guys about their Lithium cells, but they are currently only offering them for racing applications, and focused on short durations w/o on-board charging. They take a special microprocessor controlled charger, and the Lithium battery has an internal microprocessor, too. They are indeed small, but they are also pricey at around $2,000 for a battery/charger combo :eek::eek::eek: Too rich for my blood, by a long shot!!
Also, they do not have any on-line order process. I called them to discuss the application of their P680 for a street rod, and to find out about the Lithium units, asked if they took orders direct and got a pleasant surprise on their special with free shipping.
We have had one in a 32 350/350 for 3 years and it just keeps on cranking.
Hello I just found this thread and thought I would shed some light on the subject.
XS Power is in no way associated with Hawker or Odyssey. You may see similarities in the moldings of the batteries, but that is because there are basic battery boxes that have to fit a certain mold to work as a certain Group battery. For instance the GM style battery is the Group 34 battery. To meet that group style the battery has to be a certain size and have certain characteristics, so it will replace the OEM battery in the stock location.
Our design and manufacturing is similar to other AGM companies, but we have found that ours have advantages others can't provide. That is why you can get so much instantaneous cranking power out of our smaller batteries. For instance here is our smallest battery (D375) starting up a 12V Dodge Diesel (18:1 compression) 15 times before we had to stop because the starter was getting to hot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdgQ6_Dsrc4
Its only rated at 190 CA by the way.
CA and CCA are really outdated tests these days. They were developed back in the early 1900s and basically test the battery as if you were turning over your ignition for 30 seconds. Of course if you did this you would burn up your starter. In that video the D375 put out 810 amps of power when the truck was first starting up. Yet it is only a 190CA battery. That battery can produce a ton of power, and recover from a deep discharge faster than other batteries. This makes them much more powerful than you think.
We are not a sponsor here and I am not trying to sell batteries. Just wanted to shed some light and maybe answer some questions if anyone has any. Hope I have explained this well enough, but if not ask away.
Nathan, you are the person I talked to when I contacted XS Power, and you were very helpful and knowledgable about the product, new developments and appropriate use and applications. Subsequently I called with concerns about charging the battery prior to use, and you again explained the needs, options and alternatives in the charger market.
Nathan, thanks for the info. A few of us on here have touted the advantages (mostly size, actual power in service, and service life) of the small, comparatively, AGM batteries. Albeit with the Brand.....uh....O, since I guess we'd have to call you Brand X :D version.
Experience has taught some of us that the AGMs perform much better than their CCA or CA would indicate, and I'm sure you're correct that those measuring standards are outdated, however they are still the standard. It seems to me that those of you with newer technology should be making presentations to SAE or whomever to introduce a new standard and a viable cross reference system so that potential buyers would have a reliable, non-biased method of evaluation. The big dog, as you probably know, in the car hobby market is the gell filled Brand O.....................which in my opinion and experience is junk, particularly if allowed to discharge say over winter. But they do make an effective door stop then. I know lots of guys will swear by them, but that's because they haven't experienced better.
It appears that we have hijacked this thread from accolades due to Lynn for his new battery box to discussions about what is inside that box :LOL:
I'll add one more related to the gel cell units being doorstops. I saw a recent tech tip that pointed out that a gell cell, including AGM's, can drop to around four volts across the terminals, and older style chargers will not even recognize the presencde of a battery in the circuit, and will not switch on the charging amps. The tip was to "trick" the charger by placing a charged battery in parallel with the dead gel cell, + to +, - to -, which will be recognized by the charger. After an hour the good battery can be removed, and the charger will continue to service the gel cell. It does not always work (some are truly junk :LOL:) but sometimes you may win! The real fix is to leave a Battery Tender on it when idle.
No problem, Roger. A lot of good information got generated on this thread.
I was going to log back and and say just that. You guys are great for giving up so much information when asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrumm
So Roger what did you find out about charging the battery before use?
Lynn that is a really great job you did on the box and the house numbers are a great touch!
I got my battery in March and would not be using it for at least five to six months. The instructions gave several cautions about proper charging, and to ensure that I did not damage the battery with my older Schumacher automatic charger I talked to Nathan about the process. He said that my ten/two amp charger was not really big enough for a quick charge, but told me I could use it, but I needed to monitor the voltage during charging to see that it did not exceed 14.5V, which will shorten the life of the battery by cooking off the acid in the mat, overpressuring the battery, and losing acid through the overpressure vent. Most important was that I should not let the battery sit for more than a month or six weeks, as the voltage level would degrade over time. Rather than take a chance I bought a Battery Tender Plus, which is a slow charge that is AGM compatible - it hits the battery with an initial charge, transitions to a float charge, then goes into a monitor/maintain mode to keep the battery topped off. I let the charger get into the float mode, unhooked it for a few seconds, and then reconnected it to go through the initial charge mode several times, and then have just left it connected. We get occasional power blips, which puts it through the whole cycle, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Smith
Several companies (including XS Power) make high output AGM chargers for a quick charge process, like between races in the pits, but they are a little pricey in the $200 to $300 range. The key is voltage control, and never letting the charging voltage peak above 14.5. If I've stated anything wrong here perhaps Nathan will jump in and correct me, but I think I have it right.
Very interesting discussion and will be a subject which I'll return to when my Brand 'O' goes to gel cell heaven. Mine is over 3 years old, but has had a Battery Tender on it until recently - and it's not on now because I've been driving the car fairly regularly, keeping it charged. I have the 'O' battery because I didn't know any better:o (OMG - that sounds like some voters I know)
(OMG - that sounds like some voters I know)
Now that is funny.
+1 on the battery tender. I have two that I use and they work flawlessly. I even ran one over when I forgot it was still connected. Mangled the case, but it still works great!!
+2 on the Battery Tender. I connect mine over the winter when I'm not driving it and leave it hooked up until spring.
+3
I've learned that not only is a Tender useful over winter, but also over summer in a hot, desert clime. Down in the desert we've got a van for use there. We don't spend much time there in the hottest months of the year :D and learned that a combination of the heat and discharge from lack of use shortens battery life significantly. Now that I keep a Tender on that batt it lasts much longer.
Well I had a post on here but I guess it didn't get approved.
I know about a week ago I got an email with your post and when I checked the thread it was gone. They may have considered it advertising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan@XS_Power
Looks like Mr Smith & I were typing at the same time...
Nathan, if your post seemed to be "sales oriented" it may have been killed as the site does not support businesses using the forum for active promotion of their products. You might PM Bill (mrmustang) to see if there is a reason for your post not appearing. Or you might re-write keeping it purely technical?
Nathan - I was able to read your post and found it very informative. But - it did have some appearance of being advertising. I (we?) do understand that you can get caught up with your business:3dSMILE:. Bill(Mrmustang) and Brent (the site owner) are very careful with those kinds of posts. I suspect that if you take any business references out and repost, it will be left in place.
Thanks guys. Sorry I tried to keep as much business stuff out, but I guess a little too much was left in. I understand completely though, so no problem.
Now to remember what I posted....lol
The battery tenders are a great option for when your battery is not going to be used for extended periods of time. Actually anytime you let your battery drop below 12.6V you can cause damage to the cells. With the smaller batteries like most of the builds on here the battery tenders and ctek battery chargers are pretty good. Just want to make sure the voltage doesn't go above 14.4 volts or 2.4volts per cell.
With the larger batteries the tenders do not work as well, because of the low amperage charge they use. The 2 to 3 amp charge will work fine with the small batteries, but with larger batteries you really want around 15amps of charge. This will give you a good full charge on the battery cells, which will give you longer life of the battery.
As far as the lithium batteries go for these builds I am not sure they make a good fit unless you are trying to cut as much weight as possible. Lithium will run any where from $995 to $1,195 for a battery and cut around 22lbs of weight, but if you are not looking to lose the weight it really doesn't make sense to go with the lithium at this point.