My next move with hiboy's metamorphosis

Having a LARGE car with Bias ply tires on it, I can safely say that the handling is well below average (close to the point of being dangerous). The alignment and suspension on the car are in good shape, but the weight of the car itself tends to work against the tires roadholding capabilities.

To go around a corner in a 1951 Frazer at 30 miles an hour you better have your insurance company and wrecker company on speed dial (after a quick conversation with God)! You will most likely end up on the other side of traffic, or on your lid!

Now try the same thing in your 32, and things will be drastically different. Your car doesn't have near as much weight working against the tires. The body sway is dramatically different. You can whip you hot rod around the corner and probably not scrub off that much speed.

And I have driven cars with Bias-ply, and radials for years. I remember the Firestone 721 issues when the steel belts would seperate from the carcass after just a few thousand miles. What I am trying to say is that make the choice that makes you happy. If it looks good to you, To H#LL with what anyone else says about it.

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Originally Posted by SirSpeedy

If you don't understand how to achieve a certain look, you must run bias tires, then one could try to explain it for days and you would never get it.

The cars below would look better with radials?

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Yup, in my opinion they would all look better with radials. Bias tires look like a big black block of rubber that couldn't go around a corner fast if they had to.... That what you wanted someone to say??? The old tires look like old technology that wasn't any good in the 60's and probably isn't much better now.....

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Now you can flame me.....:LOL: :LOL:

here's one of the best examples of "the look" I was speaking of... IMO radials would kill the overall feel of this deuce.

Boy, reading all this erudition makes me think I'm lucky to be alive. Spent most of the 60's and 70's wheeling a half a million miles at mostly illegal rates of speed in everything from a Hemi-powered IHC to a 69 440 GTX, and all on (GASP!!) bias ply tires! Many were rejects from the local Ford dealer, when buyers opted for radials on their new trucks.
It wasn't until we got a 72 Camino that radials entered the picture. It was uncontrollable with bias plys. A Duster was the other way, radials turned it into a killer, it went every direction but the way it was pointed.
My point , I guess, is that a car built for bias plys will work with them. Some older cars get harsh and noisy with radials. My 54 Bel Aire will chip the enamel off your teeth on a gravel road with radials, but it's okay on pavement. Go figure.

Then run your bias ply tires. Maybe you can convince yourself they are better on ANY car in ANY situation, but to me they will always be old, outmoded technology... I fail to see anything that even looks good about them.... I will never see the day that I will give up the ride, handling, and safety of a radial to go back in time 50 years and run a bias ply. Many of us drove on old discarded junk bias ply tires at at least twice the legal limit....but that certainly doesn't mean that I would be dumb enough to do it again just so I could have "the look"..... I just must not be artistic or trendy enough to understand it, what I do understand is that a radial tire far exceeds a bias ply tire ON A PROPERLY SET UP CAR when it comes to handling..... None of you seem to want to talk about what works better, only what is more "the look". Well, you go look good, I'm gonna go fast!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

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If you don't understand how to achieve a certain look, you must run bias tires, then one could try to explain it for days and you would never get it.

The cars below would look better with radials?

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Right, Speedy, we're so stupid we don't get it, and we're so dense that we will never understand.

You win . . . for most condescending post on this thread. Your trophy is in the mail.

I've been doing this long enough that I know how to create just about any "look" I want. And, any of the last three cars would look just fine with a different tire/wheel combo. They wouldn't have your "look" but who gives a rat's fuzzy backside.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Right, Speedy, we're so stupid we don't get it, and we're so dense that we will never understand.

You win . . . for most condescending post on this thread. Your trophy is in the mail.

I've been doing this long enough that I know how to create just about any "look" I want. And, any of the last three cars would look just fine with a different tire/wheel combo. They wouldn't have your "look" but who gives a rat's fuzzy backside.

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Jack, add me to the dumb as a rock list too. I'm not ever gonna get it either!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

PS---Is their also certain clothing we would be required to wear to have "the look"? Want to make sure I understand all this.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What cracks me up about this is Faith started out telling you in effect "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up". And then you guys spend nearly four pages doing just what she said she wasn't interested in!:D

Now where in the hell do women get the idea that men just won't listen to them!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

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Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

Now where in the hell do women get the idea that men just won't listen to them!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

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well, her statement is one of the reason guy's won't listen, (Don't confuse me with the facts) Besides, just a bit late in life for me to start any new habits anyway!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

I gave her no advice at all. I have faith in everything she does . . .

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

I have faith in everything she does . . .

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Groooaaannnn!!!!:p

. . . . *rimshot*

This thread was interesting to say the least... I still have the radials on my car, and will take everything said into consideration, I agree, sometimes "the look" isn't as important as being safe, and I respect the advice all you guys who have been doing this for years are willing to provide to a rodder "newbie" like myself. I hope no one got offended by my thoughts/ opinions, as I think thats what makes rodding so cool, there are no "rules". Opinions yes, but theres no guidebook to tell you what's right and whats wrong, its a matter of free expression. I've always been into stock restored cars, where there was no gray area, everything was either correct or it wasn't... no room for personalization. Everything from the battery cables to the tires needed the right date code or part number or it was deemed "wrong". With rods, you can do whatever you want, and for the most part, everyone respects everyone elses ideas...Oh and I did find proof that you radial guys are right. j/k!!! :3dSMILE:

Now you guys have me wondering how these puppies are gonna be on the street? :D :D :D :D


Hey, this thread was just a lively discussion between friends. If we all thought the same it would be pretty darned boring.


Don

I'm not saying radials are bad, just that they aren't any great deal better. I run 'em on most of my rigs, because they were built for them. But some cars work better on bias plys. It seems to be that the older ones without rubber bushings in the front end get harsh and noisy with radials.
A point of interest.....Here in Sask. it is illegal to run radials on the front axle and bias on the rear. The other way around is okay. I found this out when stopped driving a '66 Chev flatdeck dually one-ton with front radials and was ordered to get them off there. It steered great like that, but no way, sez Big Brother.

Oh, Faith, what hath thou wrought? LOL!

This thread is absolutely hilarious.

I think Faith is sitting back laughing. Lets think this through, she lives in SoCal, runs with the traditional hot rodding people around there - hangs out at Hollywood Hot Rods and has them working on her car....she should know that this is totally the wrong crowd to even pop this question - this is "club street rod".

Henry - Sorry you think I was condescending. Each of the those cars I posted are pretty special. You said the last three cars would look good with radials? The last one is the Henderson roadster, on the "75 list", and I was at the shop of the man who owns/restored it to is '47 grandeur yesterday. They have been invited to bring it to Pebble Beach. It won Amelia Island in '02. Good shot at winning the hot rod class at Pebble. And they drive the hell out of it.

There are 2 groups fastly separating in this hobby - street rodders who can build a '32 with all new parts out of magazine, and hot rodders who are building cars traditionally using old OEM stuff. I like both. I own both. I've built both - with radials and bias tires.

I have a car in my shop that has no single part newer than '48, minus the obvious, belts, hoses, tires, oil, gas, etc. That is cool. I will drive it. Yep, Bias tires, '40 brakes, unsplit bones, closed drive, a dropped axle(yes, with heat), F1 steering, buggy springs, unboxed frame, lever shocks, etc

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Originally Posted by DennyW

Someone better get ahold of this guy and inform him about those tires. :LOL:

It's to bad to, cause I think that makes it look really nice. :)

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That car is awesome. It looks right with that tire/wheel choice. It has a late '60's early 70's look.

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Maybe you can convince yourself they are better on ANY car in ANY situation,

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Boy you are a quick trigger dude - this is not what I am saying. Certain cars, trying to achieve a certain look, and a certain application...read - read - read

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

I guess Foose's latest Riddler winner doesn't have "the look." And, what does "period correct" with reference to tires on a '32 roadster really mean? Does every '32 have to have a certain "look?" It isn't right without the "politically correct" tires?

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Do you really want answers to these?

Yes, Chip's cars have the look he is seeking.

Period correct means having a car that looks like it was built in given time period. A car with late '40's early 50's styling had a certain look. To keep that car period correct, it would need an engine/driveline, steering, brakes that are all era-specific.

A great hot rod needs a theme - bias tires and billet tailights don't mix. Aluminum radiators are for contemporary styled cars, etc.

This isn't about politically correct.

Here is a short film that illustrates the point of view of a "traditional hot rodder"

Again, not condescending here, just trying to help explain something that someone else might enjoy. I don't go into threads about people asking a question on their '66 Dart and tell them "muscle cars suck, build a hot rod!"

Some people are into this stuff, so maybe this will help you understand more.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXU3N9wT3u0

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Originally Posted by SirSpeedy

Do you really want answers to these?

Yes, Chip's cars have the look he is seeking.

Period correct means having a car that looks like it was built in given time period. A car with late '40's early 50's styling had a certain look. To keep that car period correct, it would need an engine/driveline, steering, brakes that are all era-specific.

A great hot rod needs a theme - bias tires and billet tailights don't mix. Aluminum radiators are for contemporary styled cars, etc.

This isn't about politically correct.

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Well said, and I agree 100%.

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Here is a short film that illustrates the point of view of a "traditional hot rodder"

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Sweet -
Where's the boneyard in the video???

There were a couple shots at the end with rear tires that will definately 'fill the wheel well' as Faith put it.

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A great hot rod needs a theme - bias tires and billet tailights don't mix. Aluminum radiators are for contemporary styled cars, etc.

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Acrtually, that was my point.

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Originally Posted by SirSpeedy

Boy you are a quick trigger dude - this is not what I am saying. Certain cars, trying to achieve a certain look, and a certain application...read - read - read

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Well, then you can sit around and look nice and cruise with your bias tires!!! Me, I build all my own cars, and utilitze the best parts either I or the customer can afford. It's not a Hot Rod to me if it won't go fast enough to start your hair on fire and handle like a slot car when you get to the twisties!!!!! Traditional, street rod, hot rod, muscle car, restomod and all the other labels are totally meaningless to me. I build off my own ideas and my own plans. Should the case ever arise that folks feel one of my cars fits one of their "catagories" I could only say that it was done totally by accident. I'll never see what fun it could possibly be to build a catagory specific car and substitute "era correct" for "performance correct". All this emphasis on "traditional rods" is pure bs.... When the cars being copied were built "back in the day" many of these builders used cutting edge technology and there only concern was to find a few more horsepower or a bit better suspension then the next guy... Cars weren't built to fit a catagory then and IMO they shouldn't be now. Everything old is new again....whoopie... I've never built a car to impress anyone else or to meet their standards or criteria unless someone else is paying the bills... If some of the original hot rodders could be reborn today, I doubt seriously they would touch a flathead or a bias tire, they'd be building with those big huge rims, radial tires, blown and injected aluminum engines and they would sit around and chuckle about just how archaic their "traditional rods" were.....

Copying is the most sincere form of flattery, guess I don't take a whole lot of time to flatter anyone. Too busy looking, scheming, and dreaming about what the next great innovation will be, and how I can work it in to my next build... I never have been and never will be accused of building a car that emulates anyone else's. To me the past is history and the future is exciting....

Don't catagorize my cars as anything but "mine"!!!!!

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Originally Posted by SirSpeedy

This thread is absolutely hilarious.

I think Faith is sitting back laughing. Lets think this through, she lives in SoCal, runs with the traditional hot rodding people around there - hangs out at Hollywood Hot Rods and has them working on her car....she should know that this is totally the wrong crowd to even pop this question - this is "club street rod".

There are 2 groups fastly separating in this hobby - street rodders who can build a '32 with all new parts out of magazine, and hot rodders who are building cars traditionally using old OEM stuff. I like both. I own both. I've built both - with radials and bias tires.

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:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: I sincerely hope we are not all expected to accept your definition of "hot rodder".... John Force calls his funny car a hot rod, Rusty Wallace calls his NASCAR stuff hot rods. I am a hot rodder, have been for better then 40 years now. But that CERTAINLY does not meat that I am going to get stuck in a rut building cars with outdated parts and technology. Your definition severely limits the scope of hot rodding, I'm afraid. Always seems that the people who jump on the band wagon and are totally involved in the latest fad get left behind when the next fad starts. Lots of us just keep on building hot rods that appeal to us, as individuals, and to heck with the catagories, labels, fads, and and avoid any tunnel vision approach to hot rodding like the plague.....

Yup, Denny. That's what I thought Hot Rodding was too... Didn't know it involved a fashion show, too!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

PS... This is Webster's definition:

hot rod
2 entries found for hot rod.
To select an entry, click on it.

Main Entry: hot rod
Function: noun
: an automobile rebuilt or modified for high speed and fast acceleration

Guess the dictionary is wrong too????

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There are 2 groups fastly separating in this hobby - street rodders who can build a '32 with all new parts out of magazine, and hot rodders who are building cars traditionally using old OEM stuff.

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So, there's only two schools - kit cars and salvage build ups? Geez, I see more variations than that every day.

Jack
- There are 10 kinds of people in the world . . . those who understand binary, and those who don't.

So if anyone does anything to their car to make it look better instead of go faster they are going soft? If its not about looks and style too, why use a 75 year old design of body and frame? Why not build truly modern vehicles with far superior chassis, suspension, and drivelines if performance is the only thing that really matters? Why does your signature say you still like yours to look nice and have shiny paint? Does that make it go faster? Just wondering....

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Originally Posted by DennyW

Actually, shinny paint does make it go faster. Kinda like the swimmer shaving their legs. :LOL: :LOL:

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Yes, but it also adds weight.:3dSMILE: Bottom line is, if you don't like bias ply tires, fine... that's one thing. But to make a statement to imply that the sole purpose of building a hot rod is to go fast and that anyone who does anything to their cars to improve its appearance rather than make it fast or handle better is foolish, well that just seems kinda funny to me. I've spent all winter working on my car and making dozens of improvements to it, NONE of which will make it any faster or handle any better. i got alot of help from the people on this board who have done similar upgrades and improvements, which likely didn't make their cars any faster or handle any better either. I can't speak for any of them, but I sure don't feel like I was wasting my time.

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Originally Posted by joeybsyc

So if anyone does anything to their car to make it look better instead of go faster they are going soft? If its not about looks and style too, why use a 75 year old design of body and frame? Why not build truly modern vehicles with far superior chassis, suspension, and drivelines if performance is the only thing that really matters? Why does your signature say you still like yours to look nice and have shiny paint? Does that make it go faster? Just wondering....

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Why indeed??? Not all of us are stuck in the rut of thinking a 75 year old body and frame design is the only thing to build..... Last Deuce I built was IFS and IRS hooked to a tube chassis, with an injected Windsor and a 6 speed...Not much left of the 75 year old stuff, body was only 6 weeks old!!!! My point is that a car does not have to be a 75 year old design to be a hot rod,

Btw, looking good is a natural byproduct of going fast.... When you work as hard as I have on building rods for 40 plus years, they just end up looking nice, shiny paint prevents rust... It's called attention to fit, finish, and detail... Although once I did have a sprint car that the entire frame was finished with a purple scotch brite, then two coats of clear over the bare metal, looked great!!! Decided paint was too heavy!!!!

This thread is out of control dudes.

Ya'll are microwaving bull cookies from years back on all kinds of stuff. Faith go buy some tires and see how you like them. You can easily go back and I bet you won't have to delare bankrupcy either.

BTW my fiberglass street rod will kick the crap out of all of you. That's right, I called it a street rod, so there. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:


Regards, Kitz

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Originally Posted by kitz

This thread is out of control dudes.

Ya'll are microwaving bull cookies from years back on all kinds of stuff. Faith go buy some tires and see how you like them. You can easily go back and I bet you won't have to delare bankrupcy either.

BTW my fiberglass street rod will kick the crap out of all of you. That's right, I called it a street rod, so there. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:


Regards, Kitz

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Not out of control, Kitz..... Just some disparity amongst what Hod Rods are!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:


PS, still saving me a spot down there around Austin someplace??? I AM eventually going to get the heck out of here!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Theres actually alot of good info in this thread for those who have never ran or even seen these tires.:LOL: Like me...but my sherlock holmes powers have deduced that the old tires will not perform like the new tires and new tires do not look like the old tires,you pick which one siuts your own personal flair.
My only concern was mentioned in another post,whats the speed rating on these bad boys?I have seen regular s rated tires on the dyno and its a scary swelling event as the tires grow they deform...not pretty.
I do know one thing about them though is that they are very noisy and easily picked out going down the road from road noise they make and the ones I heard made alot of noise.....not sure how that works out on a roadster ?
From previous posts Faith has made I do not think that street racing and high speed corners happen that much.Spirited driving I think was the reference ,not street racing.
Run em and see how you like them,but just be aware that you have them on there and become aquainted with there handling characteristics.Like Dave said ,find a big parking lot and let the burn out and power slides begin and also check how they handle on hard braking.I would go as far as to do this scenario with the radials and then go get the bias tires and go back to that same parking lot and retest the same day to get your best comparison.............as was stated before they are going to come up short in everything other than looks.
Ask any racer/hotrodder that was around in the 60s and every single one of em will tell ya the same story ,...if we only had tires like this in the 60s we could of cleaned house!!!
Good luck with your purchase and on top of all ,be safe!!!

Denny, I sent you an e mail.

;) thanks. -jb

I do have to concede that the high speed rating thing concerns me on bias plys. Since I only "bury" the tach on rare occasions, and for very short bursts, I guess I am ok.

However, I think back to former days, like when I had my tripower GTO in '66 and was street racing a Mustang. My speedo only went to 120 and the needle got well past that, and I was running on redlines. Of course, those were hi tech at the time.:eek: :eek:


Don

I think Faith left the building....:LOL:

You didn't expect her to take all this with blind faith, did you?

No.

I have faith in Faith....:cool: