Printable View
I am reading the history of the Deuce (a great - huge - book I bought at the primer nationals) and was wondering if anyone here knows exactely how many all original roadsters are left today out of the 1550 that HF built in 1932.
I know there are more "registered" 32 Ford roadsters today than HF built, but we all know that a majority of them are simply re-creations and not actually roadsters from 1932.
In other words, HF built only 1550 or so roadsters, how many are still in circulation today?
PS: Can you find out, from the frame number of an original 1932 frame, what model car actually was bolted to that specific frame when it was first built in 1932 ? (a sedan, coupe, roadster etc...).
I'd be curious to find out what my car started as, back then. (More than likely NOT a roadster LOL)
The generally accepted original production figure for roadsters is 12,597.
Wow, only 1550? I think I've seen all of them over the years. I'm amazed it's so low of a production number.
Anyway, I don't see any way that there is any count of survivors. So many have been made into hot rods that there is no central group that would be keeping track of where they are and how many. If it was old Packards or somethng, maybe then, but not with a car that has been modified as often as the deuce.
Could be wrong, though.
When is your Boyfriend going to join? We allow '48 Plymouths on here too.:D :D
Don
Production numbers from Roadsters.com site
Cabriolet 6,091
Convertible sedan 926
Five-window Standard coupe 51,794
Fordor sedan 37,363
Panel delivery 6,122
Phaeton 2,490
Roadster 12,597
Sedan delivery 400
Station wagon 1,383
Sport coupe 2,911
Three-window Deluxe coupe 22,148
Tudor sedan 124,101
Victoria 8,580
The serial number range was 1 to 203,126 but that included trucks and commercial vehicles. There are many more roadsters today than were ever made.....if you have a real frame with a serial number, you cant tell what body came on that frame so many sedans got rebodied into roadsters. Then, there are the cars that have been registered without a real serial number history....probably more than were originally built....one thing for certain, they may have built 200,000 frames in 32 but they only built 12,597 roadster bodies....a real body is the prize. The new Brookville, the ASC, and the RodBods bodies are distinguishable from the original. IT would be impossible to figure out how many 32 roadsters that exist today since many are titled as something other than a 32 roadster.
Ford made 1,552 standard roadsters ... and 11,045 DeLuxe roadsters ... so Faith was correct ... as far as she went ... :3dSMILE: she just did not say standards ...Quote:
Originally Posted by robot
I believe the statement that There are more 32 Ford roadsters registered today than were ever made ... WHICH ... would be true ... if you only counted the 1,552 standards number ...... by Faith ... is a urban myth or legend ... IF 1/3 of of the original 12 thousand plus 32 Ford roadsters survived ... ( doubtful ) that would mean that over 8 thousand 32 Ford roadsters have been reproduced ... With a 20 year run of reproduction ... that's over 400 a year ( or 8 a week ) for 20 years. :whacked: MAYBE ... now ... they make that many ... MAYBE ... but not years ago ...
OR ... 12,000 32 Roadsters divided by 50 states ... is over 200 roadsters in each and every state ... I know that California has more than their fair share of the 200 ... but how about Delaware ... Rhode Island ... Alaska ... Vermont ... I bet there are not 200 32 Fords of any body style in all four of those states combined ...
Most reproduction bodies .... that are on original Henry built frame rails ... on sitting on a 4 door sedan chassis IMHO ... because they were the cheapest old car donor available and got NO RESPECT from the Hot Rodders until more recent times ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/af700793.jpg
Is a decent book ... and a enjoyable read ... but a lot of the stuff is a rehash of previously printed material and it is not totally correct ...
Randy
You can buy a title to a '32 roadster, which means there had to be an original car for that title and VIN #. But a person can also apply for a lost title, and get one in some states, and a new VIN # will be issued. It is understandable that it could be possible there are more titled roadsters than were actually produced.
I was also reading a Rod history book and according to it, an original serial number would start with 1 (4 cylinder) or 18 (8 cylinder). I do not think there is a way, except MV or Ford records to tell which body was on frame. My title states it was a roadster, but that may not be common.
Jim
Not wanting to put anybody down, but anymore deuce roadsters are getting about as rare as red Camaro's!!!! IMO the only difference between steel and glass is which side of the debate you are on. Given the choice of which to build, I think I would prefer a repop steel body, a new set of rails, and design the rest myself....... I've done enough of the "real steel" body rebuilds to know that a lot of times about all that is left of original Henry parts is the upper cowl, windshield frame, and the title.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
I agree. I did a '34 a few years ago replacing the floor and and lower panels. I won't do it again. Today, the totally new steel bodies are just too attractive.
OK, let's give the "twice as many deuce roadsters now than Henry built" the smell test:
We know that ASC built 300 Dearborn Deuce roadsters, that is publicized.
Brookville probably has built and sold at least that amount, let's give them
350
Rod Bods is the price leader so let's give them 350 also.
That is 1000 steel bodies that are "new"
Wescott has been building bodies since the 1970's according to their web pages.....but they don't say when they started the 32 roadster body. Let's guess that they started 25 years ago and have shipped 3 bodies per week for 25 years...... 3 x 50 x 25 = 3750......this sounds way too high but let's use it.
For the other manufacturers, we will guess that they all total up to Wescott's total....so another 3750....this puts the total fiberglass guess at 7500.
Deuce guesses that 1/2 of the original roadster bodies are left...I think that is too high.....use 1/3 of 12,597 which equals 4,199...say 4000.
Thus, 4,000 + 7500 + 1000 = 12500.....kinda close to the original number of roadsters built. To sanity check, we know that there are NOT double the number of steel replacement bodies out there...... we know that there are NOT 2/3 of the original bodies left and the fiberglass body production would have to be very high to total double the number of deuce roadsters.....
Therefore, the myth that there are "twice as many deuce roadsters today than Henry made" is probably busted. By the way, the above guess is how many bodies were built....probably a good percentage are sitting in the garage unfinished.....I know mine is.
mike in tucson
Well, I have books with manufacturing facts on everything built in the USA from 1903 to 1970. But taking in consideration of all of the 32' roadsters that I normally see during the year, I would have to guess it would about 2 million and counting. Damn things are thicker than mosquitos.:LOL: :LOL:
It's a wonder that Bill Ford hasn't asked for a royalty fee for each one made after 1932. Would certainly go far in helping out the financially ailing corporation.
Deuce guessed 1/3 ... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by robot
I would guess that a good number of the reproduction bodies ... are just that ... still just bodys ... not finished, and registered Roadsters.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/MVC-013F.jpg
It took me 10 years to put mine Roadster back together ... last time it was apart ... and my 3W is going on 2 years ... :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/5efa37c3.jpg
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1456599802.jpg
I realize some folks work a LOT faster than I, but a lot don't either ... :cool:
Family, work and $$$ all play a big part in getting a 32 on the road. My situation was made more complicated by the fact that I was not using any repro bodies, panels ... or frames ...
I have a real title and a real frame with numbers that match the title....I bought it from a friend in Texas..... when I took it down to the DMV for the out of state title transfer, they have to inspect the VIN...easy enough. I put the frame on the flat bed truck and hauled it to the DMV. The inspector came out and looked at my paperwork and asked "where is the 32 Ford?"
"right there on the truck, sir!"
"you cant drive that!"
"I'm not here to take a driving test, sir"
"it's just a frame"
"that's where the serial number is"
"let me talk to my supervisor"
"OK"
They agreed to give me a title but not a license plate until it is inspected to be roadworthy.
mike in tucson
Ah yes I realized yesterday whenlooking up the production list again that I had looked at one line (roadster) and did not notice the next line read roadster deluxe. So you are right roadsters = 1552 and deluxe = 11045 a total of 12,597.00
And you'd think with this higher number, it would be possible to find an original body somewhere? :rolleyes:
I visited Hollywood hotrod's shop and he showed me a roadster that was having his original tub repaired. he said they spent TONS of work/hours to try to restore it. In the end, almost nothing of the original body was left. the owner then decided to scrap this idea and get a brookville body instead and start from scratch :eek: (do people actually have that kind of money?????)
Of course I imediately asked for the guy's phone number and asked if he was married LOLOL (oh just kidding you guys!) :LOL:
About Wescott: They started building roadster 32 bodies in 1974/75. I asked my contact at Wescott and that's what he said.
I believe Brookville is the most exact replica of the original HF body? How much do their bodies run now a days? I will need to make serious decisions about my body down the road... (I meant my roadster's body LOL). Since the current wescott older body is not painted yet and since I will probably end up redoing the interior, then this may not be such a bad time to think about whether I want to restore and keep the old wescott body (who's doors are out of alignment) or spend some more $$ and get a steel body, but if so i want the exact duplicate of the original.
I can afford the body, with some hard work at selling my fancy tropical fish :), but what are the pros and cons of a steel body?
I can think that:
1- steel is more durable and will not go out of alignment
2- steel will protect you more in case of a car crash
3- steel adds value to the car
but then I can also think that:
1- steel eventually may rust (I'll probably be dead by then anyways LOL)
2- steel is heavier, so the car will not be as fast. And I like my roadster FAST hehehehe.
3- Gas mileage, which is bad to beghin with, will probably get even worse (what do you mean WORSE? Is that even humanly possible??? :LOL: )
Please let us not here get into a debate of which is "better", I like both glass and steel. let's just stick to the facts.
Also, how much of a nightmare would it be to swap bodies? Yes I know wiring will have to be disconnected and reconnected etc, but my wiring needs to be organized, tagged and partially redonne anyways, so there again, not such a big stretch... And the timing may be right.
PS: I should be more specific and say that my doors currently are warped, meaning the top aligns but the bottom sticks out. :rolleyes:
One last question (yeah right! :p ) : I need to install my 1932 plates and I bought oversized license plate frames last week-end, took the current standard size frame off, only to find that of course the holes will not match (fine), but also that someone already drilled a extra hole (a mistake) in the body's rear and it will now probably show above the new plates. it is small, what do I use to patch it?
I thought about bubble gum, but then worried my car would make bubbles when it's windy :LOL: Just kidding of course...
About bubble gum though: Don't ditch it until you try it ! :LOL:
I do carry chewing gum in my first aid tool box and was able to fix something thanks to the chewing gum on sunday (while at a car show), while the knowledgeable dude hotrodder parked next to my car, and who was trying to help me had ran out of suggestions on how we were going to get the washer back inside the tiny hole of a metal bar to screw the plate back on LOL... Nothing would fit inside that hole and the rumble seat set-up got further in our way in terms of access. So I said : "wait" and pulled out the chewing gum, chewed it and then pasted it to the tip of my little finger and then pasted the nut to it and then I was able to get them in the tiny opening and line them up with the end of the bolt and rebolt everything back together. He was impressed by my creativity :LOL: and what can I say: It got the job done!
now I can officially say that my car is held together with duct tape and chewing gum LOLOLOL.
There have been debates regarding steel vs. fiberglass FOREVER and will continue so. The Cobra guys have the same argument with the same results....(theirs is aluminum vs. fiberglass)...and one side is not going to change the other side's mind. The general feeling is that you should choose the one that suits your specific need.
Quality is probably a more important consideration than material....some fiberglass bodies scream at you from 100 feet...they look really bad at the reveals. BUT, some of the new repro bodies look equally funky. Both take work when you get them from the manufacturer....and Henry's bodies were probably worse.
Brookville builds the most faithful body for the steelies...and they are about $10K or so. Glass ones are all over the map in price and quality.
Old, original bodies have 75 year old metal in them and can be difficult to work or at least expensive to work.
I suggest going to as many shows as possible and eyeball bodies....ask the owner what kind it is, etc. You'll get so that you can recognize the different materials and makers pretty quickly.
I would rather have your old Wescott ... than a new Brookville ... and I am a old time original steel Henry Ford 32 Roadster steel body owner :D for a long time ... ( 30 years and counting )
The Wescott is more correct looking ... IMHO ...
The Brookville doe not have the wooden tack strip around the rear of the passenger compartment and all of the true Wescott bodies I have seen in person have it ... NOW ... some folks say their Roadster body is a Wecott ... because the Wescott is considered by many ( or most :) ) to be the best fiberglass 32 Roadster body made ... and they say theirs is a Wescott to attempt to make it more valueable ...
http://www.bettatalk.com/images/My%2...w%20engine.gif
Yours has the wooden tack strip ( photo from your blog )
http://www.bettatalk.com/images/DSC04330.JPG
It has the correct looking firewall ( like a Wescott )
If it is going to a reproduction bodied Roadster ... I would rather have the old Wescott and the character it has ... :3dSMILE:
I'v heard that the Brookville bodies need far more work to get right, than Fiberglass bodies, if all your body needs is a door adjustment, just have them adjusted, it will cost way less than getting a new body. for the extra drill hole in the panal for the liscense plate, easiest and simplest way would be to take a small bolt and put it in the hole and tighten it up, you could paint it flat black b4 you put it in.
Randy, just so you know Wescott also makes a version w/o tack strip and no top iron lugs on the B pillar along with several other changes from stock; http://www.wescottsauto.com/32-ford-...roadster-1.htm
That's interesting ... :)
I know years ago they only offered the closer replicas ... even now the special ones have the lip for the wooden strip ... in their photo ...
I almost never go to their site ... as I am not a buyer ... But I considered buying their 32 3W coupe body ... if I could not ever get one of the 5 or 6 original 32 3W bodies that I knew of. Getting someone to sell was always the problem. I can actually thank Brookville for helping me, in a indirect way, to get the 3W I have. The guy who did own mine sold it because he was afraid the value would go way down when Brookville production started ... :D
Deuce, you are probably right, because many many people, when I go to car cruise night, think my roadster is all original. When they ask I tell them it is an old Wescott body and they usually comment on how faithful it is to the real thing.
OK, so if I want to have the body worked on, how would I go about finding a rod shop that does fiberglass body work? i did ask Hollywood hotrod and they do not deal with fiberglass "It itches" said the owner with a smile. :LOL:
I would like to get an idea and a quote to see what it could cost to get the doors back where they should be, and also realign the trunk hinges, which curently are also not truly aligned (trunk is sagging down a bit, causing it to get stuck at the bottom seam, and making it hard to open (I have to puch the bottom "in" with one hand and pull the handle with the other LOL). Also, because the trunk is sagging a bit, the top part is a little further away from the latch then it should be (gap). As a result, if my foot really hits the gas pedal, the sheer acceleration causes the rumble seat trunk to fly open. :eek:
What can I say, I'm too fast for my own good LOL. Currenrtly I rigged up a latch that seems to be holding the trunk close, but I am also not being too aggressive with my "take offs" and being a good girl (sigh).
Hiboygal wrote: "I visited Hollywood hotrod's shop and he showed me a roadster that was having his original tub repaired. he said they spent TONS of work/hours to try to restore it. In the end, almost nothing of the original body was left. the owner then decided to scrap this idea and get a brookville body instead and start from scratch (do people actually have that kind of money?????)"
Actually they do. Not me of course, but a lot of other people :( . After all the winner of the 2005 Ridler Award (Ken Reister's 36 Ford Roadster built by Chip Foose) was rumored to have cost a cool $1.5 million to complete. Obviously nice cars and trophies are very important to some people. Again not necessarily me, I just like to own and drive them - not much fun driving inside a trailer.:D
hey Deuce,
talked to Eric, the guy who rebuilt the rod back in 2000, I was just told my grill insert is the original one (as well as grill shell, radiator, and possibly front axle). However, I do not see a crank hole in the insert. Do you have a close up photo of an original grill insert that I can use as a reference? Didn't they have a crank hole in them?
Gas tank is also the original 32, no wonder it is so beat up and rusted LOL :)
OK, the title also read 1932 roadster and serial number starts with 18. Eric said that when he got the car it still had its minnesota title which read 1932 Ford Roadster, and he checked the vin nb and it matched the title. Could that mean the frame did come from a roadster? Since the front is all from the original car (grill shel, insert, radiator and possibly axle) and so is the gas tank, seems that what was replaced was the body. there is a slight chance I might be looking at a real 32 roadster that was restored with a body replaced... but then again, hard to know for sure... GRRRR if only I could go back far enough to find the first owner!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Hippie
If you are wondering why i want to know, it is because it fascinates me. I wonder what secrets untold hide behing my roadster - it adds a certain "romance" to the car.
You might try an internet search for the Minnesota DMV and see if they offer a history of registered owners. I got one from CA DMV. It only shows previous owners by name and date but I was able to track some of them down using Google.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiboyGal
http://www.bettatalk.com/images/DSC04329.JPG
Your shell looks to be a original 32 Ford piece ... but the insert does NOT have the crank hole ... as it should.
http://i5.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/07/ab/a2_1.JPG
This is a photo of a repro ... but you get the idea. :3dSMILE:
If your chassis has the original transverse springs ... the number of leaves is a clue as to what it came under ... but as it is a Hot Rod ... it does not really matter ...
18 in the number means it was a V8 car ...
:D
Deuce is right, V8. Just a thought to confuse the issue, if it is really a Wescott body, why not buy new doors from them if yours are really bad? That might solve your prob. less expensively and allow you to continue to drive your car. I like the history you have found, and maybe you could find out how old your (roadster) body is and have a kool historical ride. Wescott advertises their first body as still being on the road.
Jim
Hi deuce, I was wondering about that too, but yesterday I closely looked at the grill insert with a couple other hotrodders. I noticed the bottom part of each insert is lodged inside the insert metal 'frame' However I also counted 5 inserts that are not "inserted" but rather welded at the botton. We then compared with another 32 grill, and found that these 5 inserts would be the exact ones that would hold the crank hole. Inshort, if I had removed the crank hole, replaced the inserts and welded them back in the grill, this is exactely what I would have ended up with. In light of this latest 'discovery', I am concluding that this may very well be the original insert, minus the crank hole. As a matter of fact if you take notice of the grill insert frame, at the bottom, where the crank hoel would be, you can see that it does not connect. A crank hole would have covered this, but since it has been removed you now can see it not connecting at the bottom (look at photo and it looks like a red spot instead of a metal color). A new grill insert manufactured without a crank hole would go all te way around the grill and connect, wouldn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
PS: I forgot to mention that I closely looked at several original 32 grill inserts at a car cruise night and found them to be consistent in craftsmenship to my grill. however comparing new inserts I found they were not 'built" exactely in the same manner. The metal inserts are also very old, showing rust and have many layers of different paint on them.
It was a common practice to eliminate the crank hole, so your insert probably is a modified original. Just like they used to fill the radiator neck hole. I have articles in some of my old magazines somewhere of doing both modifications.
Don
HiboyGal,
Just some more info, all original '32 grille inserts were painted gray, not chrome.
Jim