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Hello everyone. This forum has been a great help to me in building my 5 window. I need to ask you for more help. I have my exhaust run on my chassis and think I have ample room under the passenger side floor area below the seat to mount the battery. Is this a good location and is there a good battery box available to do this or is there a better place to locate the battery? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions on running and locating a trans cooler? Thanks
Let's start with the trans cooler. Don't know what kind of rad you're using, if it has the cooler built in why not use that. Plumb it just like an oem application. Some folks will poo-poo this kind of setup, but then drive one just like it everyday with their civilian car. If you've got adequate cooling system it's not that much of an extra burden unless you're planning on a lot of hard duty. The alternative is a "remote" cooler which actually mounts closer to the trans. Now this may end up being in the same spot you're thinking of for the batt, but we'll address that later. Here's just one possibility; http://www.gottashow.com/trans_cooler_kits.php. If you're not into the braided line thing and are handy with making up your own plumbing, the same cooler unit with out the hose/fittings can be bought from B&M through Jegs or Summit for around $60. This is usually mounted to brackets attached to the X member near the trans. I have seen them with a simple folded aluminum sheet "scoop" fabbed to direct more air to the fins. It kind of depends on how your under carriage is configured as to whether that's necessary or not.
As for the batt, I usually mount them in the forward, passenger side of the trunk. If you've put in a bulkhead between the interior and the trunk, then you decide which side of the bulkhead works best for how you intend to use the car. Some folks don't like putting it in the forward part of the trunk because they're concerned about it going dead at the same time you've got a load of junk back there, like the three suit cases for your wife, and the lunch sack for you. The odds of that happening aren't real big unless Murphy is one of your dependants. I personally think that under the floor is actually more inconvenient, and makes carpeting more difficult, not to mention the amount of space it takes, usually right where the exhaust would like to go. Now, size can be another issue. Again, my preference, I like the Odyssey battery; http://www.odysseybatteries.com/applications/auto.htm I've had good service from the 925, they're about 7" wide, 6 5/8" long, and just over 6" high. They're not as prone to short life as the gell cell (such as Optima) batts that don't take well to repeated drain down and recharge cycles.
A good idea is to have a HD battery cutoff switch, they come with both a bypass circuit that lets a small amount of current by for clock or computer use, or not. Also, if you've got power door and/or trunk latches, and maybe windows, it's a good idea to also mount terminal lugs inline on both ground and power to an external place, through the floor, in a fender well, wherever, just in case the batt does die when everything is locked up, you can clip on a jumper batt and at least get it open.
If you really want a below the floor batt, and conventional size, any of the typical parts suppliers have a variety of box choices in either steel or stainless, fixed or drop down; Speedway, Parr Automotive, Yogis, Yearwood are just a few.
Thanks for the reply. Great information there! I have the Walker z-series radiator with a trans cooler. I was just considering adding more cooling capacity for the trans. I bought a nice trans cooler at one of the local swap meets. I added the odysey battery page to my favorites list. I had noticed in several Deuce builds in recent magazine articles that the batteries are being placed in the trunk. I thought I would ask opinions from some of you that have their rides on the road. Thanks again for taking time to reply.
I'm glad to hear Bob likes the Odyssey battery.
I bought the Odyssey 925 with their cool chrome battery holder and put it right in front of the rumble seat on the passenger side. Pretty compact package there!
Regards, Kitz
Here's a home-made battery box on my 32 roadster.
Constructed from 1/2" x 1" rectangular tubing.
18 gage stainless floor plate with a 1/2" thick pad of neoprene rubber between battery and stainless plate.
As you can see a couple of heat deflecting panels - front and inside - were pop riveted on.
With glasspacks, not needed, but when I went to turbo-muffs and later to Two Chamber Flowmasters things got tight.
I found that running the battery under the body seldom required the addition of water.
Twice in about a three year period.
I'm running Optima's now and find them to be an excellent battery.
Some Costco stores are selling Optima batteries.
Here's a shot of my home-made trans cooler.
2" thin wall tubing, plugged at both ends, a couple of 1/4-NPT threaded weld bungs welded in.
1/4-NPT to #4 AN stainless braided line.
Used in conjunction with a Derale trans cooling pan - the model with cooling tubes running through the 1" deeper pan.
It works very well in cooling the T-400 behind the 462" Buick in my 32 roadster.
The only time the trans ever got warm was running the switchbacks gong up to Sequoia National Park on a hot summer day.
That due to the 2400 rpm stall converter not locking up all the way.
A 20 minute stop at the view site and things cooled down enough to make it the rest of the way.
I run this setup here in the Arizona desert in weather up to 103 and have run it on Nevada's highways in 107 degree heat.
As long as the converter is locked up it does very well and I have yet to get the trans over 190 running the desert highways.
My 31 on 32 rails project roadster has the same cooling setup although 1 3/4" thinwall tubing is used on it.
(You don't want to go too thin, maybe 16 gage at the very most and 18 gage works just fine.)
As a fwiw - I believe the stock spreader tubing is 1 1/2" OD tubing and it would probably work ok.
Thing is, with the 2" tubing there is over 120 square inches of radiation area.
Black powder is used on the 32" cooler and black is known to radiate heat better than any other color.
You probably wouldn't lose too much by using a different color.
A tubing trans cooler such as this is known in the aircraft industry as a "Skin Effect Radiator."
I like the cooling in the tubing like that!!!!No added weight and it utilizes existing pieces to make it even better.
C9x, I can't open the attached photos for some reason. Dang! Kitz, my brother runs the Optima battery in his modified dirt track car. They are tough batteries! I will look at battery boxes available and then decide where to mount it. Bob mentioned a bulkhead between the trunk and passenger compartment. Should these be welded in or bolted where they can be removed? I will be using the stock seat location and the original package tray. The reason I am asking is that I have found cracks in the hinge area of the trunk lid opening and a crack along the beltline below the side glass behind the door. If the bulkhead was built right, it would strengthen the body quite a bit. Right? This car was a drag race car at one time. These bodies must flex a bunch. Thanks for the replies.
FWIW, I run the small Odyssey battery www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680mjt.htm between the frame rails of my '32. Since I have an electric door solenoids and an and electric trunk opener, I could not place the battery inside the car. It has worked out fine for me. The only drawback to a battery of this kind is you cannot crank on it for a long period of time.
I ran one of those 925 Odyssey batterys for a couple of years worked well until I installed the sound system in the car. The Odyssey did not seem to be able to handle a constant high volume draw and I found that it was not re-charging itself fast enough... I ended up changing it out for an Optima which seems to work much better with my application eventhough it takes up more space. My sound system reqires about 1580 watts of power so my battery requirements are probably more demanding than what most might need.
As for placement, my battery is located in the rear bulkhead just as Bob described.
Dave Brisco
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce4papa
Drop me an email and I'll send you the pics.
C9Mach@msn.com
One of the cool aspects of discussions like this is that rarely do two people approach a similar situation with exactly the same perspective, which in turn affects the chosen outcome(s). As a result the "right" answer depends on who's approach most matches your own perspective. In the end the broad outcome may be identical (e.g. the car starts, the trans fluid cools) the differences are in the aesthetics, perhaps the chosen chassis layout, the skills/interests of the builder, budget, etc.
papa, I don't have a personal recollection of whether your car is steel or glass, but based on you description of cracks at the belt line just below the quarter windows it must be original steel as that is a very common occurance. When I used the term bulkhead it was loosely as it's structure will vary from car to car. In some it may only be an upholstered piece of panel board, in others it could be a full on structural member of the body. Obviously there are variations in between as well as nothing at all. As you mentioned the original Ford bodies flex quite a bit.............they probably didn't intend for them to last 75 years.:) It's very common for folks to weld in a tubular structure to add rigidity to the body, especially in roadsters, but also in coupes. The package tray does pretty much nothing to increase body strength, in fact a lot of folks remove it for added space.
A clarification on my comment about the Optima battery. It may not be clear to all that my critique was stated conditionally. I suspect it comes down to how an individual maintains their battery. If you're the type who is very conscious about keeping the battery charge level up, disconnecting or switching off the battery whenever the car is parked for more than a few days or so, and have a good charging system, then the Optima will perform well. Heck, they sell a ton of them so they can't be horrible. My observation is that folks who aren't as meticulous about battery care will let their battery run down requiring a major recharge. A normal lead acid battery doesn't especially like this kind of treatment either, but will recover, especially if it's a deep cycle, marine style unit. Obviously too many of these types of deep cycles won't be tolerated by any battery. That being said, it appears from what I've seen/heard, that the Optima won't tolerate more than a couple/few of these cycles before giving up. They are very good by comparison for high vibration applications. And lots of folks who don't "punish" them probably get good service. They don't offer any particular size advantage, which was the main thrust of my suggestion. Yeah, the Odyssey doesn't recharge quickly, but again tha'ts only going to be an issue if you either have a high electrical demand (ala Dave's window shattering stereo system), or you tend to ignore your battery for long periods of time while it sits idle. Personally the Odyssey works for me because my cars have a relatively light electrical load, and I'm pretty good about hooking my stuff up to a battery tender charger when parked or in a prolonged layover (like winter storage).
Good points Bob.
More than one way to do it right, something I think a few forget now and then.
For the steel cars, I like the inner frame reinforcing bit and plan to bend up a mini roll bar for under the cowl on my 31 (steel) roadster on 32 rails project.
If you don't run one of these you get a lot of cowl shake crossing RR tracks, cattle guards and the like.
If deuceforpapa's car is glass and the bulkhead - behind the seat area - is to be strengthened do not glass a plywood bulkhead to the body sides.
It will create a 'shadow' - or subtle bump - you can't get rid of.
This info from Wescot fwiw.
One nice way to reinforce the bulkhead area in a glass roadster is a square tubing framework.
A couple of horizontal bars, one bolted to floor and the other to the rear cockpit rail and maybe half a dozen vertical bars tying it all together.
Saw this done on one of Roy Fjastad (Deuce Factory) son's cars and it was a nice way to go.
I believe the framework was covered with sheet metal as a fireproof barrier and it probably had a piece of plywood spanning the area as well.
The plywood making life easy for the upholstery guy.
Bob is correct on the taking care of the batteries over the winter bit.
I moved my first Optima from the 32 to my car trailer to supply the potty room with light.
Eventually rewiring the trailer's original interior roof lights as well so the trailer lights didn't run off the truck battery.
I forgot about it after moving from California to Arizona and 8-12 months later the voltage was down to 8 volts.
I've recharged it several times and 11 volts is about as high as it gets.
Stupid is as stupid does someone said once upon a time....
We currently have 6 Optima side terminal batteries, 2 Odyssey PC1200 batteries, and 1 Delco.
A few observations from this angle:
The Odyssey batteries are 4+ years old and still going strong. They never exhibit corrosion around the terminals nor need any cleaning. Our battery
boxes are built for the Odyssey size which is considerably smaller than a normal battery. If we loose a battery in Nowhere, USA, it is going to be hard to replace it. That's why we have two of them in the same vehicle and have a isolator switch. They arent the cheapest to buy but for the cost per month, they probably are a good buy. The Odyssey battery can be mounted in any orientation so it is handy for smaller cars with tight spaces.
We burn thru Optimas it seems. They are relatively cheap at $130 or so. They seem to last a couple or three years.....we rotate them in vehicles so that the vehicle driven far from home always has the newest and the local parts truck gets the oldest. Optima's warranty is sporadic....some places replace them without wimper but others take more effort.... for a battery that wont hold a charge, Optima has a detailed test procedure.....slow charge for 24 hours and a load test. Gee, if I'm on the road, I dont have 24 hours for them to test my battery!
Optimas have replaced DieHards as the stock sized battery of choice for the hot weather.
mike in tucson
Very good info from each of you. The body I have is steel and I won't have a heavy battery load as I don't plan on a stereo or power windows/locks. I am concerned with installing parts that are easily found in local parts houses.This is my first rod build which leads to all the questions. You guys are such a valuable resource, having "been there/done that". I appreciate each and every reply. And I do appreciate the different perspectives on making these installations and parts selections. Much appreciated.
....Wayne @ Redneck Street Rods is building me a '32 3 Window & he advised me not to put the battery under the car so I had him put it in the truck like he recommended. He said that sooner or later I'd regret putting it under the car. Like in a rain storm when I had a dead battery as I was crawling around under my car, soaking wet I'd remember what he said! Bill
Whoa! I didn't see that one coming! Ha! I'm sure Wayne knows someone that has experienced that one for him to mention it. Wayne may have been the one soaking wet! I remember one Louisville National where it rained hard enough for a guy to drown changing out a battery under the car.Thanks for the reply.
Wayne and Billlsbird have a good point.
Even so, the battery in my car is seldom touched and the couple of times I did drop it, one was for battery replacement and the other to change cable (terminal) style.
I like it out of the trunk area when a fuel tank or fuel cell is used within.
A small battery - CCA wise - works ok most times, but every now and then the engine can get fussy and require a bit of cranking.
Since I changed from electric pump to manual I find that leaving the roadster sit (Carter 750 cfm carb) for a week or two can take a bit of cranking to get fuel into the bowl.
Not a problem with an electric pump . . . which I'm going back to....
I mounted mine just behind the sat on the passenger side.
It makes it clean and easy to run any cables and wires needed. Also drilled a 1 1/2" hole on top the fram and ran all wire through the frame rail and made it very clean.
You can see pics here
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0street%20rod/
Located mine in the trunk ..in the storage area ....
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...O/CIMG1773.jpg