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Just found you all and hope this topic hasn't been worn out.
I'd like to put "lakester headers" on my roadster, but do not want to run blocked off and into the exhaust pipe. I don't want to end up as "jail-bait" or arrive after a 4 hour drive with a boomin' migrain, either.
Has anyone figger'd a way to have their cake and eat it too on this subject?
Thanks in advance
You don't think running lakester headers would be a good idea or the baffles/steelwool idea?Quote:
Originally posted by techinspector1
I've seen guys do this before with a baffle/baffles in the pipe, sort of like a big flat washer with a hole in it. Personally, I'd be thinkin' about packing 'em with steel wool as well. No, let me take that back, I wouldn't do this in the first place 'cause I don't think it's a good idea.
I talked to a guy that makes 'em and that is what he was saying
(steelwool and drilled baffle plates), but said most run them (headers) wide open. I don't think that would be a good idea.
Visit the world of motorcycle accessories/exhaust..............lot's of nice baffles there, various sizes, various tones.
Here's some humor showing I can laugh at myself and maybe give a message at the same time. Back in my Dune Buggy days I had a beautiful set of chromed headers on a 1600cc VW engine in a gold metalflake Sand Rover. One morning I got stopped by a patrol car and issued only a warning by an officer who liked the car but noted that the exhaust was not "stock" and that I better quiet it down ASAP! So that very day I cut the bottoms out of two aluminum beer cans, noting that they would hide in the ends of the header bell throats and drilled three holes in each header outlet at about 120 degrees apart. Then I stuck a Brillo pad inside each header bell and bolted on the beer can bottoms and drilled about ten 1/4" holes in the beer can bottoms. That quieted it down nicely and I was very pleased with my innovation. About three days later I noted the noise was back and there were threads from the Brillo pads streaming out the holes in the beer can bottoms. Upon taking off the beer can bottoms I found there was almost nothing left of the Brillo pads (in just three days driving)!. The moral of the story is that any packing material whether steel or fiberglass has to be held by some sort of internal structure and that the actual pressure of the exhaust is quite high! So maybe some sort of washer welded in or some sort of "Trapp-type" spiral baffle might work, but it has to be sturdy to handle the heat and pressure of the exhaust. Soon thereafter I was rear-ended in traffic and the headers were destroyed but the insurance replaced them with a very heavy gauge Swedish set of headers which had some sort of sturdy baffles and the sound from the new headers was really just music to the ear! Sooo, beer can ends might fit but I have proved they don't do the job right! For me that's a LOL! For what it's worth, I recall that after the Brillo pads were gone the perforated beer can ends were on the car about nine months before I got the new headers and the beer can baffles even survived state inspection, but surely the purpose of headers is improved flow so it seems silly to deliberately block them and maybe a spiral insert is the best answer.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
How about putting a set of Super-Trapp's on the end of the collector???
Hey 32 " We're all getting warmer, Don and Dave have it real close, Is it possible to take the Gut's out of a Super Trapp and install them in the Lakes Collector, so the Trapp wouldn't be sticking out ? Never messed with the trapps but they've been around a long time now. Maybe someone who's ran Trapps can tell you .
I've run super trapps for many years and if you want to take baffles out of the super trappp muffler, all it will be is most likely a straight through muffler which it looks like your trying to get away from. The noise would be mighty loud. Try stainless specialties. They make alot of different mufflers and will make almost anything you ask for at a reasonable price.
I've ran Super Trapps on a few cars. The best part of them is if you get a repair ticket for "excessive noise", all you have to do is make the appropriate adjustments, and get the ticket signed off. We had to use them drag racing on a 1/8 mile track they had in Sioux Falls (closed now) to meet the 90 db rule. They worked so good there I started using them on the street.
Chevy 37,
I'm sorry I maybe didn't explain it good enough, I was talking about taking all of the plates out of the Super Trapp and installing them inside the Lakester Header Collector , that way 32 Skidoo could adjust the sound to his liking, but I was not sure of what the inside of the Trapp looked like ie. the mounting system for the plates. If you mounted the Trapp to the Lakester Headers it seems like to me that it would defeat the Look that 32 is trying to acheve.
Thanks to all who responded. You all were hitting on target with the disadvantages that I'm thinking will develop by trying to run them as the only exhaust.
I've run across one company that says that they are planning on coming out with a series of inserts and discs that will mount in the
cone of a lakester header, but they do not know when they will be bringing them out.
I just got a new Summit catalog and note on their page 68 they show "Supertrapp Replacement Components" as Muffler cores such as SUP-400-1140 but they don't give the diameter or length so you would need to call the folks at Trapp. I note with considerable amusement that on the same page they show "SuperTrapp Muffler Endcaps" such as SUP-402-3046 which look a LOT like what I used when I cut the bottoms off of aluminum beer cans!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
With all due respect to my buddies here that statement pretty much says all you need to know a bout the esthetics of Super trapps Don!!;)Quote:
Originally posted by Don Shillady
I note with considerable amusement that on the same page they show "SuperTrapp Muffler Endcaps" such as SUP-402-3046 which look a LOT like what I used when I cut the bottoms off of aluminum beer cans!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Bob, very well said! If I were doing it I would just add the lakes plugs and put the pipes under the frame. The "Trapp-adapt" is just going to plug up the headers worse than a simple glasspack. I just thought it was interesting that I was able to adapt the beer can ends and get essentially the same result as the high buck approach as well as dispose of the liquid in a biological way. Your comments are very valuable and tone up the Forum considerably!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
I have lakster type headers on my 32 roadster with a 401 Buick. I used a 4" kit from Speedway Motors to build my headers. I took a pair of 12" glasspacks with a 3" diameter and cut off about 1/2 of the outside case so they would push up into the cone of the headers. I welded the muffler to a plate with a 2" hole in it. The plate replaces the block-off plate the used to be between the header cone and the turnouts. I just shove the muffler in and bolt the turnout back on with the muffler plate between headerand the turnout. I have driven it quite a bit and have never been stopped for it being too loud. It is kind of loud under acceleration but at cruising speed it isn't bad as the wind noise kind of takes over.
Tim
Sounds promising. Do you have to use "turn-outs"?Quote:
Originally posted by IBUILDM
I have driven it quite a bit and have never been stopped for it being too loud. It is kind of loud under acceleration but at cruising speed it isn't bad as the wind noise kind of takes over.
Tim
You don't hyave to have turnouts but it looks kind of goofy with a plate on the end of the cone with a 2" hole in it. With the turnout on it you can't see the hole.
California law does not allow for exhaust to be dumped in front of the cockpit area.
I would imagine most other states are the same.
In most roadsters running at speed, the cockpit is a low pressure area aerodynamically speaking.
That means air exhausting from the hood side louvers as well as lakes style headers will be pulled into the passenger cockpit area through the front and rear door gaps.
It gets worse if a top is installed.
Do yourself - and the rest of us - a favor and run blockoffs on the lakes style headers.
Making a good looking run of pipe to the under chassis exhaust system where it can dump out the back behind the rear axle at the least shouldn't be too difficult for anyone who can build the lakes headers to start with.
It's not about noise, it's about a good sounding exhaust note.
Mechanical music if you will....
Too much common sense, here.:D
I was hoping for THE LOOK and THE SOUND. Another case of wanting to have my cake and eat it, too.
Thanks for all the imput.
Will let you know what I go with.
If you're looking for the sound as in "back in the day" you'll find that muffler choice, placement and tail pipe length all had a part to play.
No one ran lakester headers on the street.
The closest you'd find there would be guys who'd occasionally pull the caps on their cutouts.
Most times two bolt caps, other times three bolt caps.
There were cable operated cutouts, but they weren't popular in Southern California.
What you're talking about doing is simply making noise.
.............well, hopefully, not too much.:DQuote:
Originally posted by C9x
What you're talking about doing is simply making noise.
C9x, your comments bring back some memories. I was raised back in the boonies. Our answer to what you were talking about was a piece of 2" black pipe welded onto the exhaust pipe with a cap screwed on. When you got away from the folks and the house, you got out with a rag and unscrewed the cap.
Our family car was a tank....'51 4 door Plymouth. One night I was going to a friend's house and part of their driveway was a series of "stairstep" bluff rock. I failed to judge the amount of "bottoming out" and tore the "plug" clean off, leaving a gaping hole. That was a good one to explain when Dad went to work the next morning. That was never done again.
Your comments also brought up a subject that could be a whole new thread - what does putting mufflers as far back as possible do to the sound or putting them as far forward as possible do to the sound (mufflers being the same)? Is a cross-over pipe between dual pipes ahead of the mufflers necessary on a "mild" engine? etc.
I don't know what you decided but I came across some inserts specifically for Lake style headers in Speedway Catalog #221, page 171. There are inserts which look like small glasspacks without the outer casing and helical auger baffles but they are not legal in Califirnia. Anyway it looks like there are inserts if they are legal where your are, sorry I did not seem them before.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Thanks, Don.
Haven't done anything as of yet. I've been talking to an outfit out of TX that is experimenting with plates and discs which will fit the "cone" of the lakester-type headers. They will fit into the cone and bolt to the flange on the Patriot or "Limefire" headers. They are working toward getting them street-legal as far as noise is concerned.
C9x brought up some issues that have me concerned, such as the
low-pressure area that the cockpit becomes at highway speeds. Nothing quite as interesting as gassing myself on a long trip, besides ruining what hearing I've left.
This is an old thread, but I'd like to add a little more. I had no luck finding baffles for my Sanderson headers, so I fashioned a set of my own. After some research, I patterned these after lawnmower mufflers. I attached three photos - the first shows the baffles in the middle fabrication stage, the second is an end view that shows the fit of the 2" ID perforated tubing. Third photo shows one side installed in the header.
Note that the end cap is flush with the header cone. if you look closely at the first photo, you can see one other plate that is a close fit in the cone, located downstream from the rear exhaust tube. The way it's designed, I can use these either hollow, or packed with steel or glass wool. Running them without packing is a little too loud for me, and ordinary steel wool quickly burns out. I'm trying to source ceramic "glass wool" that should work under the heat and pressure. Actually, I found some, but I don't need it in the industrial quantities offered.
I fabricated these using 16ga cold rolled sheet for the plates, and the same gauge perforated sheet for the tubes. When I fitted the internal plate into the cone, I positioned it so that when the end cap is bolted down, it will squeeze the inner plate tightly into the cone for a good seal.
Total fabrication time was about four hours.
Attachment 57011These weld up baffles are what you need for the lake type headers. Some measuring and welding needed, possibly some wool added depending on your sound level needs.....you can put a plug in the main outlet, or a restrictor, or run em open holed with the baffles to take some of the nasty out of em...they are out of Minneapolis.....Gear Drive Speed and Custom
First of all, your Gear Drive Speed & Custom is buying that kit from Ken Mulinix at Car Chemistry in Waxahachie, TX. If you use Ken's unit I would highly recommend that you anchor at least two, and preferably three places around the perimeter of the large baffle. Anything less will result in the large baffle plate deforming outward from the mount point due to the heat and exhaust pressure pressing outward (wanna see pictures??), which will leak and rattle. The rings are stamped from nominal 18ga metal (calipers ~0.05"), which is pretty thin. Might as well buy them from the source if they are what you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohead1
Second, not a big deal, but this was a thread from 2005 that then got updated in 2010 to show a home built alternate. Nothing wrong with resurrecting old threads, just sayin' it's not a new discussion.
They are Lake Headers to give them their proper name, I have tried the baffle system several times and its not successful i'm afraid, If you want to arrive without your ears blown out run them through a undercar system.Quote:
Originally Posted by '32 skidoo
.
I made my Lake Style baffles, copying the Car Chemistry approach but increasing the internal pipe size and beefing them significantly, thread link here - http://www.clubhotrod.com/hot-rod-ta...r-baffles.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by roadster32
Mine are great at idle and cruise, loud but tolerable. The exhaust note is aggressive under normal acceleration, but at WOT they get pretty abrasive, to the point that with windows down and rpm's climbing past 5K I've wished I had ear protection a few times. I pulled the baffles and drove around the ring road at the Old Marais River Run, and they're wicked loud at all time.
Gear drive .com or car chemistry . Com has inserts for lakes
See Post #25?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjbeattiejrf150
