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Hello everyone,
On a post I made earlier on the 429/460 post, an entry was made that said that it was believed that Zink had been removed from Shell Rotella engine oils. I was really torqued about that so I went to Shell and ask about the issue. They say that that rumor is completely untrue. Zink has not been removed from Shell Rotella motor oil. So we are good to go using Shell Rotella on our flat tappet engines.
Two lane
It's not a matter that the Zinc was removed, but that the amount of Zinc has been reduced. The question is the PPM of Zinc/Phosphorus that's currently remaining after their reformulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by twolaneblacktop
And, I believe the re-formulation was mandated by law to meet the Federal requirements. Currently, to my understanding there are only a few exemptions to the requirements, one being oils designed for special purposes such as racing. Most of the oils that meet the flat tappet requirements are under this category. To my knowledge, Rottela is not one of these. I believe there are several different types of Rottela and some of them have higher zinc formulas. However, the new zinc formulas are not the same as it used to be and not as beneficial as the old. While the numbers are high, the effectiveness may be low.
The Truth About Zinc & Motor Oil | Driven Racing Oil
Well the folks at Shell clearly stated that Rotella's Zink content was unaltered. Period. Guess they were not telling this old guy the truth?
Unaltered from what base? Ask them what the PPM of ZDDP is in their Rotella oils today, compared to five years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by twolaneblacktop
I may have miss led you,
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...07/classic-oil
the old rottellaT is the same. lot of old diesel engines out there . true there are newer oils for the new diesels but the old ones still need maintained . i run it in everything with no additives. last time i checked the zinc level was 1250 ppm . been a while but they have to produce oil for old engines.
i believe the majority of the cam failures were not due to the oil . bad start up has killed many a cam. water leak, fuel leak etc causing shut downs. i also suspect some failure were caused by some mfr problems.
hopefully i have done my last carb flat tappet build.
yep, i dont really think it was oil in all cases. seems comp had a big problem. i've just used rotella since i first heard of the reformulated oils. i use it in equipment here so i just use it for all of them.
I have used Castrol GTX 20-50 in my 429 for as long as I can remember (40+ years) but also use Havoline 20-40 in my other cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
So far all good.
Having said that our 'newest' car is a 1988 model!
I need to find the current specs on Rotella t but I can tell you it does not have the same zinc content it once did. I buy zddp by the large bottle and add it to all my diesels with flat tappets. I've seen too many severely worn tappets the last 4-5yrs not to add the additive.
that's what i remember hearing from them years ago. the rotella t is unchanged but the newer oil is for the new engines. 1200 ppm is plenty . they also warned of adding additives to it .
I have to tell you, you all are terrific. Still don't know what is wrong with my Ford 460 tow truck. I have been so busy with work that I haven't even had it towed yet. Gotta make hay while the sun shines. It is going to be 60 degrees tomorrow and I'll shoot some photos and post them. Great discussion. everyone should read this!
Rotella is about 1000ppm now. Used to be higher. Had a 64 VW with a Stroker motor. Ran 3 different cams so swapped twice. First cam was broke in, in 1997 and when I pulled the cam it had normal wear. Zinc was higher apparantly in all oils then? Put in the same Mahle lifters and different size Engle Cam. Broke it in with Rotella on suggestion from the Bug community. This was about 2005. I did find out after that, actually right after and switched to Brad Penn. But the Damage was done.... When I pulled that cam (Maybe 3000 Miles) for the 3rd ( Even larger Lift and Duration) all the lifters had pitted. You can make your own conclusion. Brad Penn is what I would use. They also have a break in oil. Joe Gibbs Break In oil said to be good and I use it on the 3rd cam and went to Brad Penn after. Mobil 1 has 15-40 that has high Zinc as well.
Found these oils online when looking for classic engine oils
Hot Rod & Classic Car 20W-50 Motor Oil
Classic Engine Oils - Classic Car Oil Products | Castrol United Kingdom | Classic Oils - Car | Motor Oil & Lubricants | Castrol United Kingdom | Car - Motor Oil & Lubricants | Castrol United Kingdom | Products | Castrol United Kingdom | Castrol - Mot
Classic Car Motor Oil already mentioned above
https://www.bpnorthwest.com/kendall-...10_a_7c5277138
where did you get the info on rotella being 1000 ppm ?
My understanding is it is not the zinc content but rather the detergents in the new oil formula causing the problems?
Again, my understanding is the new detergents are washing the zinc away before it can adhere to the surfaces and this may be the actual problem being blamed on the zinc content. Just the skinny I'm catching wind too..
they will still spread this denny. it has always been 1200 ppm and there is nothing in rotella that is harmful . i use it in everything on the farm. i use it for break in on builds. once it leaves they can run whatever they want. but i make it clear just hanging a nascar emblem on it does not make it better.
Denny, the question is, "Has not changed since when?" The reformulation of oils was mandated back in the early 80's, and other than oils labeled for specialty use, like Rotella being spec'd for diesels or others for racing/not for street use it was mandatory. Your guy at Havoline could easily think he's telling you true, since it's been 30+ years since the mandate was issued to protect cat converters.Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
Not trying to be a know it all or disrespectful, there are different grades of rottella oil and I believe "T" is what you are using. Other types may not qualify. There are lots of people that believe any oil is ok, and that is their proghtive. I believe that a flat tapet high performance cam needs more sheer protection than a roller cam requires. Oil to me is like insurance, you'll cuss it's cost until you need it, then usually wish you had more..Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
If your Havoline carries an API Rating of SJ, SL, SM or SN (API Link - API Engine Oil Classification ) then it doesn't have 1200PPM of ZDDP and you're not doing anyone any favors by telling them that Havoline is OK for your old flat tappet engine. Not saying it won't work, just saying it's a crap shoot and it's no better or worse than Valvoline, Pennzoil or any other major oil company product.Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
You can get any answer that you want by asking the right questions.
roger , you need to read first and jump second .
Havoline is 750 ppm is exactly what denny said. rotella has 1200 pm.
every time this stupid zinc crap comes up it is a pissing match on brands . a lot of bs information spread around . i hear goose grease and bear shit works better .
Shine, I totally missed the 750ppm/850ppm line. Not sure how, must be old age or something. Back before '80 all of the major oils had 1200ppm (or more) of combinations of phosphorus & zinc.Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
Denny, my apology, but I wasn't "Jumping" anyone, just trying to point out what I saw as an error, but in error. I'm done with this subject.
Sic em Shine.Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
Maybe I am the crazy one here but I never called the oil companies I called my cam company?? I called Isky and they told me Brad Penn, not there break in oil simply there regular oil to break in there cams, don't add anything to it to disrupt their additive package. I figured if I was going to ever have a warranty claim or complaint my "choice" of oil was always going to be the wrong one!
Had lunch with Isky last week at our pit in Bakersfield
Brisket or ribs ?......... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton