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Hello guys im mike. I have a 1980 Datsun Nissan 280 ZX. Its in kinda ruagh shape so i desided to rat rod it. Now for the fun part, im putting in a 350 small block with a supercharger on top. But i dont want it to stick out of my hood, with a very hard cam, And i want around 500 to 600 horses. I know i need a 4 bolt main block forged chank h beam rods. But what else do i need? All i want is around 500 hp and im on a budget.
You would probably be better off to forget it. Budgets and extremes usually end in disaster.
Well thanks im willing to get what i need to make a good sound engine im just saying i dont need a 5000 doller blower to give me 1000 hp. Im going to build it right but only to the point i need. Am i making sense.
yes, my thought was a 500-600 hp sb in a datsun leads to chassis, hooking up, steering, gears, all the safety features ie (brakes), trans etc. I'm thinking it will have to be a hefty budget. I'm not trying to be rude but it always ends up more and more to make it right.
BZZZZZTT. Wrong answer. Drop the Hot Rod magazine and step to the rear of the bus please.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike4098
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welcome t chr mike
Hi Mike, welcome to the forum. Don’t mind the rather short answer from Tech, besides being one of the most knowledgeable members here, he is also right. The magazines (OK to us old timers they’re still magazines even if you do read them on the net) and Saturday TV shows tend to make it look a lot easier than it is and also tend to gloss over the real costs of building an engine.
First off, let’s start off with the car. The Datsun 280/SBC swap can be a neat combination…provided the car you’re starting with is sound. If there is any structural rust they tend to twist up like a pretzel when you start putting any kind of power to them. I’ve personally checked several of the 240s, 260s and 280s and even out here in AZ it’s hard to find a solid one. I’d check the car carefully from underneath and if there are rust issues, find another car or scrap the idea.
Next let’s look at the engine you want. You want a Super Charged 500HP small block and want it to fit under the hood. It’s doable (kind of) but you will be limited to a Weiand 142/144 style Super Charger or something like a Pro Charger. I’ve personally built a couple of the 142/144 supercharged engines for customers over the years and frankly while they do add some power I haven’t been overly impressed when it comes down to cost verses benefit. The Pro Chargers take up a lot of under hood space……you’ll also find pricing on the Pro Charger is a bit hard to come by as most installations are custom and it’s one of those products that if you have to ask chances are you can’t afford it.
The more cubic inches you have the easier it is to make HP and to get to the HP level you want you might as well plan on building it as a stroker 383. Whether you build a 350 or 383 to make it produce a real 500HP with a Super Charger and live the only thing left of your original donor engine will be the block.
Here is what your parts list is going to look like:
Rebuildable 350 4 Bolt main block
Balanced 383 Rotating assembly (Crank, Rods, Pistons, bearings, flexplate/flywheel and balancer).
Aftermarket heads (your choice, there are a lot of good options out there).
Roller Cam and lifters
Rocker Arms and push rods
Super Charger and manifold
Upgraded internal hardware (Rod, Main and Head Bolts)
Oil pump, pickup and oil pump drive
Timing Chain
Cam bearings
Tin and hardware (Valve Covers, oil pan, timing cover etc)
Carburetor
Gasket set
Distributor
Misc, like plug wires, break in oil, filters, fuel lines, fuel pump etc.
You’ll have to do your own research, but what I’ve listed will run in the $5000-7500 range. You get what you pay for, you can go cheap on everything but remember it only takes one sub standard bolt to turn everything into $.07 a pound scrap.
Next will be a trip to the machine shop. The block will need to be cleaned and checked, bored, line honed and square decked, pistons installed on the rods and cam bearings installed. Doing a 383, the block will also have to be clearanced. Prices vary a lot depending on location so you need to check locally, but figure between another $500-1000 on block prep.
Now the next question is do you have a place to work and the skills and tools necessary to put everything together. EVERYTHING will need to be checked and clearances verified even if it just came from the machine shop. Anybody can have a bad day from the machinist to the little china man manufacturing the new crank kit. One bad part, one clearance that is too tight or too loose turns your investment into a pile of scrap metal. If you don’t think you have the skills to actually put it together leave that part to a professional too (more $$$).
Easily this engine can run between $7000=10,000 by the time it’s broken in and ready to be installed.
Once the engine is built, you’ll be looking at a cooling system to cool it (and super charged engines like a lot of cooling), an exhaust (headers), a transmission that will stay together behind the engine, a drive shaft to connect everything and probably a rear end upgrade.
The members on this site are more than willing to walk anybody thru an engine build and help with figuring out the things like compression ratios, cam profiles, best heads etc you will need to know before you start ordering parts. The problem is it can take a lot of time to type all of it up and in most cases the guys and gals here can tell when someone is actually going to build a motor or it’s just a pipe dream. We also know the answers the original poster gets are often not what he wants to hear so when an honest answer is given he or she never comes back. To borrow a saying from one of the members here (Dave) “If it was easy (and cheap) everyone would do it”.
At this point you have a few choices, come up with the money to built it the way you want, lower your expectations, or do something different.
Anyway, again welcome.
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Just adding my "yep!" to all that has been said. I like to say that all it takes to get cubic horsepower is cubic money. Engine building is not an inexpensive undertaking. Make a plan, do your research, and try to stick to it. Mike has laid out a pretty good synopsis of what you need to consider.
As an example: in 1980, I needed a quick new engine for my daily driver, and didn't want to go through the process of rebuilding my worn out engine, so I bought a crate engine from GM for about $1,200. There was a glitch in it, and GM found that all of the engines in that lot had the same glitch, so rather than wait for a new engine, I took them up on an offer of a new crank, and a rebate if I wanted to handle the swap myself. So, in the process of tearing the new engine down to replace the crank, I decided to go ahead and change the cam, and have the whole thing balanced. In the end, after all of the little things got taken into consideration, I wound up into that engine about $3,500 to $4K, and that was a lot of moolah in 1980; it ain't peanuts in today's figure, either, but it will be real easy to drop two to four times that into a custom build.
Just sayin'. It's easy to dream, but reality bites.
For a vehicle of that type, size,weight,-----you should also consider a take out package of a later model, more up to date tech --------
look at the alum LS PACKAGES FROM later gm stuff--they are lite, compact, and have HP and economy on fuel milage------you will need matching ECM and wiring harness from vehicle its out of but those lift out deals are quite popular these days ( especialy when they are going into something that would need considerable fab work anyway.
You guys and gals are "up on the tire" with this young man. Well said everyone. Even a naturally-aspirated build will cost about $10 per hp. You should figure roughly $1,000 just for for machining and balancing if you're going to do it properly. Can you rebuild a motor on a tree stump with pliers and a screwdriver for less? Yes, of course you can, but don't plan on 500 hp.
double post.
Thanks guys yall are a lot of help. I know it will take alot of money, thats why im getting a 2nd job. And i dont read magazines. Lol
Another option you may want to consider is an LSX engine, 525 hp out of the crate from GM with a warranty........