chevy small block 355

Rig: bored .30 over, forged pistons, floating wrist pins, cast steel crank, lunati cam, .540 valve lift, 2500 rpm stall, th350 tranny, 670 street avenger carb, dart 2.02 200cc runner heads.

Car: 1979 Z28 camaro.

I am hearing a slight bassy knock from the passenger side of the car. Before the rebuild, i made sure my measurements were good. and they were. I start it up for the break in. sounded beautiful, but it had an extremely low low tick, could barley hear it. so i changed the oil with 10w30 valvo. After around 120 miles put on, the tick sounds like a slight bassy knock from the passenger side, not the lower, the upper. I noticed and my machinest noticed. that the block wasn't casted correctly. Number 4 piston hole was actually some how curved in the piston hole itself. it basically had a small swirl in the hole. well my machinest took most the swirl out, but didnt bore it too far over for piston slap. idk. im lost. it does it on first start up, then when it gets warm its gone.


the slight knock isn't major, its not like a hammer hitting my floor pan. but it's very steady knock.

but even before i rebuild it, the engine always made weird noises. I guess its the ghost in motors.

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Originally Posted by bigdana12

Rig: bored .30 over, forged pistons, floating wrist pins, cast steel crank, lunati cam, .540 valve lift, 2500 rpm stall, th350 tranny, 670 street avenger carb, dart 2.02 200cc runner heads.

Car: 1979 Z28 camaro.

I am hearing a slight bassy knock from the passenger side of the car. Before the rebuild, i made sure my measurements were good. and they were. I start it up for the break in. sounded beautiful, but it had an extremely low low tick, could barley hear it. so i changed the oil with 10w30 valvo. After around 120 miles put on, the tick sounds like a slight bassy knock from the passenger side, not the lower, the upper. I noticed and my machinest noticed. that the block wasn't casted correctly. Number 4 piston hole was actually some how curved in the piston hole itself. it basically had a small swirl in the hole. well my machinest took most the swirl out, but didnt bore it too far over for piston slap. idk. im lost. it does it on first start up, then when it gets warm its gone.


the slight knock isn't major, its not like a hammer hitting my floor pan. but it's very steady knock.

but even before i rebuild it, the engine always made weird noises. I guess its the ghost in motors.

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i bored engines all the time there no way in hell if the bore is worn there going to be a hole out of shape less the bore never cleaned up the it should of gone to 040 . on honing ..a bad bore honed strait most all of the time will be past the size limit the piston can take. depending on the alloy of the piston it may just be loud till rebuild time or just loud for a short time till piston skirt breaks off many pistons now have a hi silicon make up run them to loose and it not good.

Change the oil and put straight 50 wt. back in it, see what happens. If it's piston slap, that should quiet it down. I didn't say it will cure it. Nothing short of a piston that fits the bore will cure it, but at least you can find out what it is.
I had a cracked piston on #1 SBF a few years ago. Pretty loud.:eek:

well the casting of the block wasn't the best. It's a first gen chevy motor. I placed the piston in number 4 and it didn't slop around from pushing to side to side. I have no clue whats the noise is coming from. someone told me to put 10w30 mobile full synthetic oil in it. i did that. and it knocks on cold start ups, but goes away when it's warm. When the people drilled the cylinder walls for the block, they weren't perfectly lined up. everything is new on this motor, besides the block.

i'm probably going to take off the passenger side valve cover and check my rocker arms. make sure ones not tightened down all the way. it doesn't effect the performance though. it'll burn tires and takes off bad out of hell.

holes are bored not drilled . they are set off the deck or oil pan rail or main saddle /cam centers spacing or centering could be off some but nothing your going to see . if bored the boring bar gets centers on the old worn part this is were the top ring stops or the lower part of the old bore . has alot to do with what i going to do and how much wear is in the bore

even side ? check fuel pump if you have one

Borrow a stethescope, or put a long screwdriver handle against your ear, you can narrow down where the sound is the loudest. Its really hard to tell anything without hearing it up close and personal..
In the late 70's I slapped rebuild kits into chevys and got away with a LOT of things I consider heresy today.. A bore being slightly off center is common but usually doesnt affect a street motor. I could rant a bit on your machinist... but,, again, without being up close and personal I dont know the circumstances/situation...

the block only had 56k on the motor, a lip wasn't even showing on the cylinder walls. i think i have a rocker arm tightenedd down too much or my fuel pump rod is damaged. I'll look through it and keep posted.


my machinest is a really good friend of the family. i never had second thoughts about him doing stuff for the family or business. He delivers and he delivers rightfully.

If your machinist is a friend of the family-----------------------

You can take off or short out the wire to the plug on that questionable cylinder and if its a piston slap it will probably quiet down--------

Full floating pins?????? how much clearance on them????/seems to me like you have a mixture of things that aren't the best choices for compatibilty----forged pistons but cast crank??

How did the machinist do the bores?????boring bar with a block fixture??? or just clamped to the block deck????how was the bores honed???electric drill and bottle brush or a CK10 type hone with deck plates torqued down?????I'm not trying to be an ass hole , but there are lots of shops that don't have proper equipment to do a top level job and they take short cuts and talk a good line of bs

no, he's a really good mechanist. no questions asked. He makes parts for the farm. anything to do with the diesel motors or implements. he's been in the business for over 40+ years. i couldn't tell you the specs. he told me but i forgot what they were. but he's precise as hell. he did over 100's of motors. sleeve to regular non sleeve motors. he knows his shit really well.


i bought the rotating assembly from summit.

Connecting Rod Material:Forged 5140 steel
Piston Material: Hypereutectic aluminum
Wrist Pin Style:Press-fit ---- now full floats
Crankshaft Material:Cast steel

sorry. the rods are forged.

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Originally Posted by bigdana12

no, he's a really good mechanist. no questions asked. He makes parts for the farm. anything to do with the diesel motors or implements. he's been in the business for over 40+ years. i couldn't tell you the specs. he told me but i forgot what they were. but he's precise as hell. he did over 100's of motors. sleeve to regular non sleeve motors. he knows his shit really well.


i bought the rotating assembly from summit.

Connecting Rod Material:Forged 5140 steel
Piston Material: Hypereutectic aluminum
Wrist Pin Style:Press-fit ---- now full floats
Crankshaft Material:Cast steel

sorry. the rods are forged.

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BINOG HYPEREUTIC pistons are not forged and they will not take any added piston to wall go back to post #2 they do not grow like a 2618 . i done many bore jobs and i redone some were i had to bore the next size up from the shop down the road from me. they would tell you they have over 100 years of added machine time under there shop roof . well i stick with my 20+ years doing 100s of bores and getting paid to fix there screw ups

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigdana12

no, he's a really good mechanist. no questions asked. He makes parts for the farm. anything to do with the diesel motors or implements. he's been in the business for over 40+ years. i couldn't tell you the specs. he told me but i forgot what they were. but he's precise as hell. he did over 100's of motors. sleeve to regular non sleeve motors. he knows his shit really well.


i bought the rotating assembly from summit.

Connecting Rod Material:Forged 5140 steel
Piston Material: Hypereutectic aluminum
Wrist Pin Style:Press-fit ---- now full floats
Crankshaft Material:Cast steel

sorry. the rods are forged.

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Have you had the machinist who did the work listen to the engine? If there's a noise in the engine then something isn't right! People reading to the description of a noise (we all describe things differently) can do little more then render an educated guess, someone knowledgeable about what's been done inside the engine right there listening to it could probably pin point the problem quickly.

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

BINOG HYPEREUTIC pistons are not forged and they will not take any added piston to wall go back to post #2 they do not grow like a 2618 . i done many bore jobs and i redone some were i had to bore the next size up from the shop down the road from me. they would tell you they have over 100 years of added machine time under there shop roof . well i stick with my 20+ years doing 100s of bores and getting paid to fix there screw ups

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----and you've never made a mistake, right????????:LOL::LOL::LOL: be careful, the last man on this earth that was perfect got crucified!!!!

Pat's not qualified for that ----he failed the "burn" test------------



Pat and I are a lot alike in what and how we do things and with me it mainly came about because "OTHERS" made lots of common mistakes and dumb things---Pat and I have several thousands of dollars of equipment for the sole purpose of doing things right and exactly on size---and everytime we look at a mike or indicator, its not acceptable for it to be "close enough"

And I'll go a little farther to make the point that this late model CNC machines run by computer nuts won't get the results that you are looking for(unless you have the level of machines that " Nascar" type shops have and they are starting out with cores that you can't get)

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Pat and I are a lot alike in what and how we do things and with me it mainly came about because "OTHERS" made lots of common mistakes and dumb things---Pat and I have several thousands of dollars of equipment for the sole purpose of doing things right and exactly on size---and everytime we look at a mike or indicator, its not acceptable for it to be "close enough"\

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---and I know of a half dozen other machinist's just around here locally that apply the same standards to their work! My only point is that it's a bit presumptive to assume that if it was done in another shop it wasn't done correctly.... IMO it goes back to something I learned many years ago----no matter how good you are, there's always someone better!

Dave---I did a search just to see who you had up there and I couldn't find anyone????????

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

---and I know of a half dozen other machinist's just around here locally that apply the same standards to their work! My only point is that it's a bit presumptive to assume that if it was done in another shop it wasn't done correctly.... IMO it goes back to something I learned many years ago----no matter how good you are, there's always someone better!

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you know dave i never said i did not make mistake .what that has to do with what i posted ? . the guy said one bore was not up to par so his guy the best around open the bore up by honing it out ? you can not do that with hyper pistons ...WHY DO I KNOW THIS I Have FIX THE SHOP ENGINES DOWN THE ROAD with over a 100years under one roof of engine builders .. ... that is all i said GEEE some get butt hurt .i never said i was the best but far from the worst just better then the guys that put .006 +on piston to wall on hpyers . not to many fix my stuff but thanks for caring for me. if you think i am going to talk my self down to make you feel better? my customer know the work i do .i do not care what you think or who you know . stuff that leaves my shop is the best i can do with what i have .i have many happy customers that i built engine.s for and if you do find one not happy ...good luck.. if so. i try to make things right. so getting back your post. yep i must be the guy thats better and i am down the road from the bone heads that can not fit pistons i hope they keep it up.. helps me pay my bills

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Dave---I did a search just to see who you had up there and I couldn't find anyone????????

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oh really? How about Scott Sehr, Jerry Ross, Gary Bott, Woodke's Racing, Schwanke Engines (he leases engines for 3 or 4 different race series, and some ASA stuff), to name a few.....Also had a local shop that did the engine in Henderson's sprint car that just last weekend got 3rd at the Knoxville Nationals...... Sehr has a couple engines out there powering NHRA record holders and the past 3 years Divisional Bracket Champs. One of Bott's engines won 2 Mains and a 2nd in 410 sprints last weekend, Jerry Ross is one of the few around here who has a crankshaft grinder and can custom stroke and index cranks. Don't worry fellas, plenty of really first rate shops around here!!

Could add one old fart retired guy who did our engines when we were running Sprints.....No big deal, but we did win 3 track championships in the same year racing 3 nights a week, and the same year won 14 out of 16 A Mains at our home track.....

All a Google search shows up is the "Social Networking" brigade who are promoting themselves and their shops all over the net...... not necessarily the guys who have stuff out their winning races!!!!

How did your engines do last weekend?


Ooops!!!! Shouldn't start naming names, knew I'd forget one!!!! Erik Erikson down in DesMoines, Ia. has become the go-to guy for cylinder heads!!!! Top of the line Serdi CNC work, flow bench, etc. Does a lot of head work (and other engine stuff) for the ASCS series spec engines.... Used to be a member here on CHR till he got tired of the put downs..........:(:(:(

Dave-----------since you named names of your local shops, I did some more searching--seems Sehr is about 60 miles away and makes some nice videos but doesn't show any shop equipment---couple others were 120+ miles , one of them seems to have passed away in 2009 and Erikson down in Iowa is 291 miles from you??????????????

How did my engines do last weekend???????????Dave I don't do bracket racing and there isn't any dirt racing around here anymore-----how have they done in the past???????/Do you want me to start with the 50s, 60s etc or go backwards from 2013?????????whichever way, you would find many national, world, track records plus continuous streak of low ET (not stupid dial in bracket stuff) and numerous awards for best engineered, best appearing crew, best appearing car etc, dozens of magazine centerfolds (including several the last few years ) and a constant string of requests for appearances at shows and events----------

I don't need to be building engines for other people and at 72 am ready to just put a modified weed wacker on a kayak for a power source----------


Now , do you want to discuss the probility of what this guy should do from the info he posted????????????/

Jerry, "local" is a relative term.... When you live out here in the sticks, it's not at all unusual to make a 300 mile drive to one's favorite shop.... Heck, we used to race in Rapid City (350+miles) on Friday night, Knoxville (345 miles) on Saturday night, and our home track, Hartford, on Sunday---it was a quick 50 mile trip. Also, many Saturday's we substituted Jackson (95 miles) for Knoxville on Saturday....

Stupid dial in bracket stuff???? Are all of us bracket and Super Class racers Stupid because we're still out there competing every weekend??? Without all the stupid dial in bracket stuff going on at drag strips across the country, the Pro's would run out of places to race pretty quick!!!!

I know you're a famous retired racer, used to watch you car run. My only point being that you aren't the only ex-racer around here, and that we DO have competent and competitive engine and chassis shops along with some very, very good racers out this way. Us country bumpkins may not get the publicity like the big city boys, but we still go plenty fast!

and I don't need to be doing Hot Rod stuff for other people either.... I still do it because once a racer, always a racer (as you well know) and I do it now because it's still fun!!!!!!!!

As to what the guy should do with his noise, I made a suggestion back on the first page of posts.....

Dave----------I'm a farm boy from central Illinois, I used to drive team of mules, shuck corn by hand with them 2 thumbed gloves and shovel it into the crib----
My Dad was originally a mechanic and I picked it up from him--did a lot of bigger sleeves and pistons in Farmals and Allis Chalmers--plus Fords, cases, Olivers etc---

I don't believe that you folks that bracket race are stupid--I think bracket racing is stupid , but if you want to drag race thats what is available at the tracks----

I think that the present system of all national events is stupid---I liked the7 divisions with the group of national type events scattered around----

Anyway---I'm going to Cordorva Il for the World Series of Drag Racing on Aug 23 and 24---I'm going to especially to see Cruz Pedregon run the tribute firebird he built of our 77 firebird---Why don't you come down and join us---I'll buy the beer and brat---------

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Dave----------I'm a farm boy from central Illinois, I used to drive team of mules, shuck corn by hand with them 2 thumbed gloves and shovel it into the crib----
My Dad was originally a mechanic and I picked it up from him--did a lot of bigger sleeves and pistons in Farmals and Allis Chalmers--plus Fords, cases, Olivers etc---

I don't believe that you folks that bracket race are stupid--I think bracket racing is stupid , but if you want to drag race thats what is available at the tracks----

I think that the present system of all national events is stupid---I liked the7 divisions with the group of national type events scattered around----

Anyway---I'm going to Cordorva Il for the World Series of Drag Racing on Aug 23 and 24---I'm going to especially to see Cruz Pedregon run the tribute firebird he built of our 77 firebird---Why don't you come down and join us---I'll buy the beer and brat---------

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Wish I could, Jerry!!!!! But, my usual reply is just like myself and all the rest of the Chicago Cubs fans say, "Wait until next year!!!!!":LOL::LOL::LOL:

Now that I'm retired, I'm so dang busy I don't know how I ever found time to work!!!! Health issues and a bit of pressure from my kids has forced me to promise to take it easy after this last run of cars with my pal Mike is over!!!! Lots of places I want to get to----Last time I was at the US Nats was in '67, last time at the Winternats was '82 or '83.

I keep saying I'm going to do just my stuff and do some travelling---hope I can make myself stick to it this time!!!! My bucket list alone would keep me out of the garage for years!!!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:

last time i talk to erick e was over two years ago and he did not do any head building or on the level he did . i have not seen him on the yellow bullet in years .seen him on E bay but times are hard to sell big $$ engines

i found the problem out, my inner spring bushing got pushed up some how. I talked to my buddy, he said aluminum heads are common to do that. don't know how to explain it rightfully.

Well there ya go! Thanks for letting us know what you found (and perhaps listening to us rantin' a bit too!!) Hope to have you stick around - this really is the best bunch of guys and gals you'll find. Passionate and outspoken - but genuine hot rodders to the core with tons of knowledge.

Regards and Welcome
Glenn

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Originally Posted by bigdana12

i found the problem out, my inner spring bushing got pushed up some how. I talked to my buddy, he said aluminum heads are common to do that. don't know how to explain it rightfully.

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valve guide ? inner I.D locator/ seat disc. ok i better stop here before some asshole and his cronies follows me around with a hammer and some nails :)

the valve guide is what i would guess could be described as a bushing---maybe a guide liner???

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

the valve guide is what i would guess could be described as a bushing---maybe a guide liner???

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i would think with alum head the sound would get louder when the head heated up as it would grow less the valve guide is stuck to the valve /bent valve .... valve to guide to tight no oil ...... then the hole thing is moving up and down . i seen linere move . but over all the shoulder guide s have very good hold out from moving

could be the retainer hitting top of guide when cold--as head heats up valve/rocker tip clearance grows so noise goes away====

I got a high dollar late model modern hemi core (2009) that has a guide missing in one head---also most of piston missing in that cylinder---don't think I even want to take it apart---maybe ebay or c list????????/