SBC Identification Numbers Decifer Help

The casting number is 3970010 which puts it as either a 68' 327 or 69'-79' 350, however my id numbers are getting difficult to decifer. from left to right the first alpha numeric number on the deck plate behind the alternator reads: 1SB167145 then a second set of numbers are stamped KI1 04 C .
The best i can come up with is its a mckinnon block assembled in canada november 4th, but the C code shows as a 57' chevy 265 or 283?? Im pulling the motor to either drop into my 75' camaro so i can install a built 327 into the 57' GMC. but i always check a motor prior to installation or sale. The date codes that are supposed to be on the back of the motor are not present, the area where they are supposed to be a big letter "K" is there and then there is also a large number "2" stamped on the back of the block. any help would be appreciated. i can take pics if you need to see what im looking at. im usually able to take a quick look at a motor and i know what it is, but the way these codes read its not really making much sense unless it was a motor assembled in canada then shipped to the states and restamped during its installation into the model on the assembly line

The 3970010 is a casting number for a 69-79 350 cubic inch (and also a 69 302) motor. The single letter C indicates a 57 265 OR a 58 thru 64 283. This should be really easy to sort out......could the "C" possibly have another letter or two more letters?.....but there is no two-letter code beginning with C that indicates a 350. Is the pan off? If so, if it is a 4 bolt main, you have your answer. Is the block drilled along the top edge (just under the head surface) for the plug wire looms? Does the engine have a road draft tube in the valley? Pull the pan and look....the bore will give it away.

mike in tucson

Attachment 50381Attachment 50382Attachment 50383Attachment 50380i came up with the same info, the vin id plate is as it reads im putting pics up to show exactly what i see, i did pull the passenger side exhaust to get to the date codes, i know so far its a saginaw plant motor given the clock stamp and then there is a bunch of other codes stamped in as well. hopefully the pics will help speed this along.

Canadian blocks all have "EH?" codes everywhere

McKinnon, Canada is noted by the letter K, ive seen others with the KI1 code which was said to be Mckinnon built on a chevelle forum site in an older manual. its the rest of the codes that arent making much sense, not unless it's a saginaw built motor? the date stamps im still looking up along with the codes stamped next to the saginaw clock i found on the side of the motor on the passenger side.

Attachment 50384Attachment 50385Attachment 50386not that the heads are helping my quest to find out what exactly this is sitting under the hood (albeit coming out for a motor i built) but here is what i found.

So any help on deciphering the block would be great as I'm now officially stuck as I've spent hours going through web sites all with the same generic decoding jargon with the vin id stamp starting with the letter V there must be another resource out there with the numbers stamped on this engine

Feb 28, 1968 on the head casting, the other head will be a bit different date

Casting 3911032 is a 68-70 307 or 327 with 69.6 cc chambers and 1.72/1.5 valves

Yeah I got the same numbers from the heads. Its the block I'm trying to figure out with its vin/id numbers

Block date code is on bellhousing stub out behind distributor (horizontal surface). Stuff on side of block is strange, looks like it says Nov 31 1975 but that cannot be....that date didnt exist.
Stuff on pad at front is VIN plus some other stuff.....K11 04 C isnt a format that is familiar. In my reference MSA-1 book, the
K means Canada, the 11 means November but the 04 might mean 1974 or 1964.....but the C is strange...BUT the single digit suffix codes were last used in 1964 so it could jive. IF so, this means somebody cobbled together a 1964 Impala 283 L32 (2bbl) block with some 307 heads.

yup, and thats why im having so much trouble with this motor, the block date code is not where it is supposed to be, in fact the only stampings on the rear bellhousing section is the cast number and then next to that behind the distributor on the flat portion is the letter K and also a number 2, those two are not stamped together, the VIN is really stumping me but the vin code is either : 1SB167145, 16B467145 or 1SB467145, the "S" and "1" are really hard to make out, as far as the suffix code?? the ones that are clear are KI1 04 C, if anything was stamped after the C, i doubt it since there is nothing that would indicate that to me, i did spray black paint into the pad and slowly wiped away trying to enhance the letter/numbers. but with the block cast number being at minimum 1968(327) the C suffix isnt making any sense to me since the letter C by itself is 1957 265/283 CID engine, and the KI1 is impala/and some chevelle applications?? with the date codes on the side of the engine with the saginaw clock its making it even more difficult to try and nail this thing down since 1. the casting number ranges from 1968-1979, the suffix code shows as a 1957, and yes the date stamp on the side of the block is undetermined given the date doesnt exist. The last is the obvious possibility that the heads are from another motor since the motor is not all original given its edelbrock intake so im sure it is a mix match motor, but solving or rather resolving what the motor is exactly would be great before i go dumping into a car to sell. just in case the motor is worth more to someone restoring a specific car or truck. but i really do appreciate the help so far in trying to figure this out. i will attempt to see if there is any other casting marks on the motor itself but so far ive seen nothing where there should be markings

you didnt read my post #2 above.....the C is listed as a 283 up THRU 1964....that jives with the casting date.
The date behind the distributor is NOT stamped, it is cast into the block. There are no stampings on blocks that are not on a machined surface.

ok so im really looking hard at the second digit which i posted as either a letter S or 6, if that is actaully and 8, then the whole thing would make a lot more sense, given 1=Chevrolet 8=1968 B=Baltimore and then the 6 digits for the production line. any thoughts from the pics i provided if that 6/S could be an 8. i only mention it since 1968/69 engine vins were in a different format. but what then would the suffix code go to??

By the way, to answer your question about the engine being "worth more to someone restoring a specific car", the unfortunate answer is that this combination is about as undesirable as it gets.....not a 55 265 block (restorer desirable) nor a 327 block and the heads are only good to melt to make sewer pipe (cast iron). Which they do melt them in Tyler Texas to make pipe. Sorry.

sorry robot i meant cast not stamped. and 283 does not jive with the cast number of the block since 3970010 was used on 1968 327 and 1969-1979 350 and 1968/69 302, and if that S/6 (second vin digit) is an 8, it would make the whole thing go together really well, since 1968 would be a 327 and the heads are 1968 307/327 motors. any thoughts on the second vin/id digit??

robot i didnt mean to imply that worth more meant top dollar, this isnt some DZ motor were talking about, but from a restorer standpoint, if you can matchup a 68' motor application to the correct car it certainly helps overall value of the vehicle, id hate to go dropping it into a car just to sell when there are plenty of people that could use the motor much more than what my purpose is for. heck id even trade em this one for a project that met their needs for another runner with the later accessory holes for the power steering mounts on the heads. but i know what you mean about scrapin stuff out or melt downs, ive done enough business with vintage motors to know that someone is always looking for a specific year range or model to at least offer it up before i proceed on a motor swap.

One of these sites should help you find the info,

Chevymania!
Chevy Small Block Cylinder Head Codes - Chevy Camaro
E-ROD LS3 | Hot Rod with Crate Engine | GM Performance Parts
http://www.mortec.com/sfampage.htm

OSK....the 64 fitment is for an Impala with the "C" code. 195hp 3 speed tranny and a 2 bbl

Bad80 I've checked all those. The thing is the c code doesn't match the cast number cause the cast number wasn't used until 1968. I'm guessing its possible the suffix area is either worn off and or that second digit on the partial vin is an 8. Cause the way its stamped looks more like 68/69 format than later models and the early 60's . Any thoughts from the pics?

Hi Mike,I have been following along this thread and as I too have not been able to make out what sort on engine I have in my Bucket. I purchased the car as a 327 cu. in. and when I looked into the numbers etc. I came up with 350 cu.in. . But reading this site I honestly don't know anymore. The thing is that the engine is such a strong runner,apart from changing the intake and other dress up items,I have had no need to pull it apart. So I have taken some photos of the markings and if you can,I would appreciate your verdict please.Thanks for your trouble,Whip.Attachment 50498Attachment 50497Attachment 50496Attachment 50495Attachment 50494Attachment 50498Attachment 50497Attachment 50496Attachment 50495Attachment 50494

CKJ code was used in three applications:
1973 Chevelle 350 ci 175 hp turbo 400 L-48 4bbl VIN K
1977 Chevelle 350 ci 170 hp turbo 350 LM-1 4bbl VIN L
1973 IMPALA 350 ci 175 hp turbo 400 L-48 4bbl VIN K

mike in tucson

Attachment 50509

Im focused on the circled numbers in the pic since they are fairly worn, the suffix code could have more that came after the letter C so id like to start with just the vin id number and work from there, robot, you've been a big help in checking these things so far so id like your opinion on the numbers cast here if you could. im about 99% positive the number 4 is correct even though its pretty worn out, but the second digit could be either S,6, or 8. as far as the suffix letter goes?? well it could have more but theres nothing on the front plate thats left of it that gives me any incling that there are letters or numbers following it. The things we know for certain is the motor cast number is found on only 1968 327's, 1969-1979 350's and 68' 69' 302's, given the suffix does not resemble a DZ code i can rule out the 302's easily, we know the heads are 68' heads either from a 307 or 327 but those could have been swapped easily over the lifetime of the motor itself, this motor does not have the road draft tube so it would have to be a later 60's small block and up since it was mandated that the PCV valve replaced the road draft tube like earlier ones, i know that from my 63-65 cast 327 in researching that motor in the last few years. so putting this as a 57' 283 i would seriously doubt due to the lack of a draft tube on the motor.

Thanks Mike for that,now I know for sure. The young guy I brought it off told me it was a 327 and TH350 and as it was such an excellent buy at $5000.00 it was mine. When I stripped it down for the rebuild the trans turned out to be a TH400 so I'm still pleased with the overall package.

I enlarged the pic 4X what you have posted....the number is
16B467145 because there is a good 6, a good 4, and a good 1
to compare the light stamped digits with. The only marginal call
is the B at the third place.... could this block have been decked
in past life? You might do a bit of research regarding late model
VINs.....this is either the complete VIN or a derivative of a 17 digit VIN

However, the 16B prefix is not a typical GM 9 digit VIN series.....
Sometimes, a block is rebuilt and some stuff is stamped....but 9
digits seems extremely long for a rebuilder.

I've been doing alot of research into the VIN format for chevy small blocks pre-70's, according to what i have found the format on this motor is consistant with the same format used in 68' 16847145, 1-Chevy 68-Production Year followed by the production sequence 47,145 cast in the McKinnon plant foundry indicated by the letter K in the prefix. I believe that in late 69' was when the format changed to the 13N100001 format.

The only thing is trying to decifer which letter is missing in the Suffix code. according to several sources it should have been a 2 letter code most likely with the missing letter being in the 1st position. does anyone have a source for the McKinnon production for 1968 or the sister site in St Katherines, Ontario? or how the McKinnon plant stamped & cast it's motors since it was also disclosed that in 68/69 GM released several changes to how the VIN stamp was done and can vary by production line.

On the plus side there is a lot of money someone put into the motor since exposing the valve cover and pulling the distributor. since the motor is up for sale i didn't want to strip it down any further, but if it doesn't sell i'll probably break it down and check out what other goodies i can find. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robot

OSK....the 64 fitment is for an Impala with the "C" code. 195hp 3 speed tranny and a 2 bbl

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the only issue with that is GM didn't use this casting number that early.

That 3970010 Block is a Large Journal 4" Bore Block no older then 1968 HM would be a 1967 327 ? -> Maybe could be Early 1968 L/J 327 but the Heads were off that Engine so it's hard to say with out Looking at the crankshaft #s . Also there were 2-Bolt and 4-Bolt 3970010's and the Pre-1973 Blocks had the 010-020 marked in the Front for High Tin and Nickel some L-82 Blocks after 1973 had 010-020 . By 1977 the 3970010's had White Iron Main caps . Here are some pictures of a 1971 350 3970010 2-Bolt 010-020 . Your Block is not older then 1968 .


http://i44.tinypic.com/308jnlt.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/inr2p1.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/qsuqlw.jpg

Appreciate the info on the additional markings. If it doesn't sell as listed I will tear down the motor and check out what you posted. I know its had work done but not sure if its been bored, I'm positive its got a hopped up cam by way of the dual stage springs but id have to crack er open to see the rest of the internals. I'm so picky with my motors I just like knowing exactly what they are

Also them Heads would have cost a good amount of Money to set up with Larger valves for Performance . I had a set off a 307 Truck same casting's . The 70cc Chambers are not bad But them 1.72"in Valves at best are good for Low speed Torque / Towing and MPG Small inch Builds . But Never can say for sure Till they come off same as the pan Could be a 4-Bolt with a Forged Crank .

Decided i couldnt take it any longer to sell it without decifering the engine. the following is some pics i took during the break down process. the valve size unfortunatly was not changed from the 1.72's like i had hoped. the pistons are a .060 over stock and turns out the cam bearings were in need of replacement, go figure! there were all kinds of numbers written all over the block in paint pen that i found when stripping off the really poor paint job which im assuming was done by the machinist since most of the numbers appeared to be 0010. so based on what i found it looks like its a 350, oh well. also the front pad numbers are more clear and looks to be 1SB47145, looks more like the saginaw built motor out of the McKinnon plant. I do have all the measurements written down i took of the parts and tolerances so if i need to provide some more info i can.

The First picture here was a series of numbers i uncovered when pulling the panAttachment 52176


This is where i expected to find the cam grind number and this is what i got
Attachment 52175


these numbers are on the front of the block by the fuel pump
Attachment 52174


pic of the crank, im assuming its missing a number and should be a 305/350 crank
Attachment 52173


the other casting numbers on the front of the motor.
Attachment 52177

so question for the motor guru's, i picked up a set of felpro head gaskets but like many aftermarket head gaskets the water ports on the gasket are much much smaller than the actual block. is there an advantage to opening up the head gasket to match the ports on the motor? or is it better to keep the restriction on the heads to keep em run hotter?