What year is this SB, Code and Casting show different years

I've got a SB with a Code of V0202USA which should be a 1983 out of a C20 - 3500 pickup. The casting number 14093638 shows it to be 1986-94.

The heads have center bolt valve covers and it has a roller cam with stamped roller rockers. Did GM ever put roller rockers in roller cam engines that came in passenger cars and pickups? It was in a junk 1989 pickup but was not the original engine.

Is there any other way to identify what year and application this block is?

What year did the heads start using the center bolt valve covers?

Yes on Mortec I am finding the same thing as you.No not that I know of there wasn't any roller rocker OEM's.GM did a number of different things.Some blocks listed as rollers where flat tappet cams with the bosses drilled and tapped.I.E.:my 1995 was like that.Unless you remove the intake or the dist and shine a light to see the rollers,you can't assume it is a roller cam.

That engine comes up just as you and Gary both found, essentially a truck engine that can either be 2 or 4 bolt mains, and either a roller or flat tappet cam. It is not a Vortec, and there are no factory roller rockers that I have ever seen, even in marine applications. Are you sure they ARE roller rockers? Post up a picture, it will be interesting to see.

It looks like they made bazillions of that same engine over that time span. I think the first center bolt valve covers appeared in about 85, but don't hold me to that.

Don

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

That engine comes up just as you and Gary both found, essentially a truck engine that can either be 2 or 4 bolt mains, and either a roller or flat tappet cam. It is not a Vortec, and there are no factory roller rockers that I have ever seen, even in marine applications. Are you sure they ARE roller rockers? Post up a picture, it will be interesting to see.

It looks like they made bazillions of that same engine over that time span. I think the first center bolt valve covers appeared in about 85, but don't hold me to that.

Don

---

Ok guys, THIS ENGINE HAS A ROLLER CAM AND ROCKERS! I am offended that you question if I know what they are! An engine this old could have been rebuilt with these parts! GM did put roller cams in some engines from 1986-94.

The question was not if it had roller cam and rockers but why the Code and Casting numbers don't match years.

[QUOTE=jayd;432087]I've got a SB with a Code of V0202USA which should be a 1983 out of a C20 - 3500 pickup. The casting number 14093638 shows it to be 1986-94.

The heads have center bolt valve covers and it has a roller cam with stamped roller rockers. Did GM ever put roller rockers in roller cam engines that came in passenger cars and pickups? It was in a junk 1989 pickup but was not the original engine.

Is there any other way to identify what year and application this block is?


Jay..............see where you are asking about rollers rockers??.We'er saying GM didn't build them that way.Come on guy.Com down.We are just trying to help here and answer what was written.

I wouldn't worry about the numbers matching.The bottom line number is the rear casting number.That is the best I can do for you.

Boy, I've met some people with thin skin, but you take the cake ! :rolleyes: You have to understand that people of all different skill levels come on these forums and some don't know a roller rocker from a doughnut. Since we have never met you, and you only have 23 posts, we have no idea what you know and what you don't.

If you come across with this chip on your shoulder when people go out of their way trying to help you, you won't last very long on this forum, or any other. Personally, I'm done trying to help you. :mad:

Don

Mortec is a piss poor source for info...it is only a partial list.
USA code can be (according to the MSA book:
1983 350 LT9 4bbl in a series 10, 20, or 30 truck 160 hp federal emissions 350turbo
OR
1990 350 L-05 TBI 210hp 700R4 in a 10 or 20 series truck (C or K)

mike in tucson

The 14093638 casting number reads as a 1986-1994 350ci boat/car/truck 1 piece rear main in EITHER 2 or 4 bolt mains. GM didnt put roller rockers in a car or truck but MIGHT have at Mercury for a boat.....hope the cam was changed with it got installed in the truck....if it was a boat cam.

mike in tucson

Okay – so you have already determined that 14093638 is a 350 2/4 bolt main and flat or roller cam. The V0202USA adds more clarification, i.e., made in Flint on the second day of February and the USA tells us that it was originally a 165 horsepower engine destined for a 1983 truck. It is not a Vortec engine.

That was its original configuration when it was built on the line in Flint in 1983 – in the 28 ensuing years, any number of modifications could have been made. Bear in mind that blocks with that casting number all have the cast-in provisions for GM’s roller setup however; GM only performs the additional machining on some to install roller cams. The rest do not receive additional machining and received flat tappet cams. Same for the two versus four bolt caps and the only sure way is to open the engine up. Again, in 28 years, a lot could have been done to this engine and that’s probably why numbers don’t line up.

Typically trucks of this vintage received a flat tappet and for the ¾ ton and heavier chassis 4-bolt mains - just a guess based on taking a few of them apart.

You asked if GM “ever” put roller rockers in roller cam engines - well “ever” is a long time, but I have not seen roller tip rockers stock. I’ve seen a ton of PRW aftermarket types where people have replaced the stockers with 1.5 or 1.6 roller tips, but never stock.

That said – I have seen some strange things come out of GM – like high performance, steel crank with a 350 part number in a 305 engine, dual spring big valve heads on otherwise tame engines, high strength “pink” rods on a stock engine, etc. What occasionally happens toward the end of a production run is a shortage of the exact “stock” part and the factory boys on the line will “upgrade to the next highest assembly”. The 305 and 350 both have a 3.48 stroke but the 350 forged steel crank was not intended for the “lowly” 305, yet it will work just fine and no one will be the wiser until the day the engine is opened up and a trained eye catches something that doesn’t look quite right. It’s possible that your truck motor started as a roller cam short block and got drafted to fill a temporary shortage on the truck line as the “upgrade to the next higher assembly” which could explain the mismatch of internals from the factory.

Tell us what you want to do with this engine. Share your “dream machine” plans and let us become engaged with your project. We’d like to help and this site represents the best hot rod minds to be found anywhere. As for the rub – please don’t use bold, capital letters – no one here is trying to offend or patronize, but bear in mind – we can’t “see” what you’re talking about and pictures help a lot. The gentleman you flamed has a lot of experience and you’ll notice over ten thousand posts here. He knows his stuff and we’re just “getting to know you...”

Regards,
Glenn

Thanks to glennsexton and robot for your excellent responses!

I was just trying to figure out what I had and why the Code and Casting numbers don't match as far as when it was made and what internals/hp it had, at least when produced.

It runs great and has good compression, don't know if I will change anything at this point. When you go to a parts store you have to give a year/vehicle/engine size to get any parts.

Thanks again to glennsexton and robot!

look at the build date on the block casting...will tell if it is a 1983 or a 1990 casting.
Code is in format D2165 means D = 4th month = april
21 is 21st day of april
65 is 1965
the cast code is on block behind head/manifold....cast into block. It is just above the
flywheel (just in front of the bellhousing)

Good Call robot - also note that "USA" was only used in 1983 - so I'm thinking it was a late 1983 build for a truck - As to the parts house shuffle, tell them it's a 1983 Chevy C20 with a 4 barrel carb and that should cover 90% of the soft parts like plugs, rotor, distributor cap, etc...

Glad she runs well - what is the vehicle that it currently resides in?

Glenn, USA was also used in 1990, see my post above. Mortec is an incomplete database.

Right you are robot - I was looking at a 1988 book (obviously not going to find a 1990 code there!!) - and that, my friends, is why CHR is the best source because we're all always "learning" something new!

As to Mortec - I stopped using them a while back when their web site went down and just never re-bookmarked them. I agree they've gor a few "holes" in their data base.

Here's a pic of what it's in.

http://members.cox.net/jdproduc/cars/1937_Dodge_A.jpg

Glenn, my MSA book only goes to April 2000 so it too has limits. But, since the Small Block was last installed in 2001 (in Cadillac Escalades as I remember) and maybe some other low runners, the book probably covers most codes. I should go look on a Vortec motor and see how it is coded....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glennsexton

Okay – so you have already determined that 14093638 is a 350 2/4 bolt main and flat or roller cam. The V0202USA adds more clarification, i.e., made in Flint on the second day of February and the USA tells us that it was originally a 165 horsepower engine destined for a 1983 truck. It is not a Vortec engine.

That was its original configuration when it was built on the line in Flint in 1983 – in the 28 ensuing years, any number of modifications could have been made. Bear in mind that blocks with that casting number all have the cast-in provisions for GM’s roller setup however; GM only performs the additional machining on some to install roller cams. The rest do not receive additional machining and received flat tappet cams. Same for the two versus four bolt caps and the only sure way is to open the engine up. Again, in 28 years, a lot could have been done to this engine and that’s probably why numbers don’t line up.

Typically trucks of this vintage received a flat tappet and for the ¾ ton and heavier chassis 4-bolt mains - just a guess based on taking a few of them apart.

You asked if GM “ever” put roller rockers in roller cam engines - well “ever” is a long time, but I have not seen roller tip rockers stock. I’ve seen a ton of PRW aftermarket types where people have replaced the stockers with 1.5 or 1.6 roller tips, but never stock.

That said – I have seen some strange things come out of GM – like high performance, steel crank with a 350 part number in a 305 engine, dual spring big valve heads on otherwise tame engines, high strength “pink” rods on a stock engine, etc. What occasionally happens toward the end of a production run is a shortage of the exact “stock” part and the factory boys on the line will “upgrade to the next highest assembly”. The 305 and 350 both have a 3.48 stroke but the 350 forged steel crank was not intended for the “lowly” 305, yet it will work just fine and no one will be the wiser until the day the engine is opened up and a trained eye catches something that doesn’t look quite right. It’s possible that your truck motor started as a roller cam short block and got drafted to fill a temporary shortage on the truck line as the “upgrade to the next higher assembly” which could explain the mismatch of internals from the factory.

Tell us what you want to do with this engine. Share your “dream machine” plans and let us become engaged with your project. We’d like to help and this site represents the best hot rod minds to be found anywhere. As for the rub – please don’t use bold, capital letters – no one here is trying to offend or patronize, but bear in mind – we can’t “see” what you’re talking about and pictures help a lot. The gentleman you flamed has a lot of experience and you’ll notice over ten thousand posts here. He knows his stuff and we’re just “getting to know you...”

Regards,
Glenn

---

Oh-why do I feel so dirty here.I know.I just got trashed.Glen you guys just repeated what Don and I said.Weither it was built in Nov or March for parts doesn't matter much or if it was built in Mich or Tonn doesn't matter either.80% of the time a yr range(pick one)will cover any needed parts.The O/P was kind of vegged in why he needed the info and had he opened up to Don and me why we could and would have answered his questions.

Oh well another "family" spat.I just wanted to call your attention to the comment and hopefully convince you we as a group all bring experience levels to the answers to the threads.Here without the O/P talking to me,thought the answer Don and I gave was sufficient.