355 build help

alright i have a 54 ford with a 239 y block. its a boat anchor. i wanna build a 355that i can really have some fun with and be reliable.i would like to keep the cost under $4k. im thinkin about getting a short block, and then going with some vortec or afr 195 heads ( leaning towards the afr). ive been looking around and the afr heads with the right cam and intake, carb setup should put me around 425 hp ? is that a good estimate ? also ive never put together a motor before. so any recomendations on short blocks, as well as other parts are appreciated. thanks guys.

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Originally Posted by greengrenade

alright i have a 54 ford with a 239 y block. its a boat anchor. i wanna build a 355that i can really have some fun with and be reliable.i would like to keep the cost under $4k. im thinkin about getting a short block, and then going with some vortec or afr 195 heads ( leaning towards the afr). ive been looking around and the afr heads with the right cam and intake, carb setup should put me around 425 hp ? is that a good estimate ? also ive never put together a motor before. so any recomendations on short blocks, as well as other parts are appreciated. thanks guys.

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Look through these 108 different dyno builds, then ask any questions you may have. Generally speaking, for a street driver, twice the intake runner volume should equal the cubic inches of the motor. Or put another way, half the cubic inches should equal the intake runner volume. Round the 355 off to 360 and bolt on a set of 180 heads in other words. Race motors will take more head than that, but you want to keep it civil if you are building a street motor.
http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html
When you scroll to the bottom of the page, click on the orange bar for the next set of combos....

Putting a 355 Chev is going to be a pain as you will blow a lot of your $$ making it fit.A 5.0 Ford or 351W Ford can be bolted in with over the counter mounts for engine and transmission that will set you back about $70 total ,I have helped a lot of guys with this swap and have pictures and part numbers on file available via email also stout crate motors that will fit into your $4K budget.A C4 or AOD will fit right on your stock '54 crossmember with no mods needed.First pic is 5.0 in my '54, pic#2 is AOD on stock '54 crossmember.

x2 for the 302 ford, i bought a roller shortblock at the local junkyard for 70 bucks, tore it down mic'd everything all it needs was a good hone job set of rings and bearings. i traded a hood, for a set of "runner" heads am coming in at 9:51 comp traded a set of explorer exhaust manifolds for a set of brand new foxbody headers. fords are alot cheaper then they used to be.

i will be in this 302 motor under a grand and itll still run high 12's and be completely streetable.

Another thought is with 400HP plus you will need to beef up a transmission that can handle it,more expense, also the '52-54 Fords have a very shallow rear wheel well so unless your go a narrowed 9" (more $$) you won't get much of a tire in there to handle the HP. Figure another $3k needed in your budget minimum.A '54 Customline weighs in at 3240 pounds with a 239 Y-block a 5.0 weighs almost 180 pounds less or 90 pounds less than a SBC,less weight is like free horsepower.A goal of 300-350 Horsepower will make it within your budget of 4K for an SBF and transmission.

very true, i will be pushing around 315 to the tires for under a grand. and in a 2500 car thats fun

i was looking around over on the hamb to see if anyone had done a sbc in this year ford. not much info. the guy i bought the car from already had a new aluminum radiator in for a 302 swap he was going to do. i want to do a 4 or 5 speed too. also im doing a bag setup this winter so the rear will be getting swapped and all the wheel wells changed etc. the only reason i wanted to do a sbc was the amount of power i can get for low cost. plus parts seem to be allll over the place for chevys. so what all is involved in fitting a chevy? the guy who is helping me with the 4 link for air ride does skilled fab work so im sure its nothing he couldnt handle

wow. thanks for the list of setups man. 12,13,14,79,80,96,97 were along the lines of what i was thinking. there are some other nice setups on there though. awesome link ! :D

Don't know where you are getting your info,parts for a 5.0 or 302 Ford are just as common as SBC parts there are plenty of Ford sites on the web full of classifieds,pick up a Summit catalog and see for yourself check out Edelbrock or Trick-Flow head prices.So here a a few simple facts,the SBF can be put in a '54 with over the counter mounts as stated above,a SBC will have to have mounts fabbed,your Ford uses a Front sump oil pan as do SBF Fords they used front sump pans in Mustangs and Broncos for years ,SBC's are rear sump will not clear your Fords crossmember and steering linkage,SBF has front mounted distributor,SBC's are rear and an HEI will interfere with the firewall so you will have to use a small Mallory or MSD with a small cap,location of SBC's oil filter requires a very short filter to clear frame in Ford.no clearance problem with a SBF.Then there is the steering box clearance,but if you really want a "belly button" motor have at it.

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Originally Posted by greengrenade

wow. thanks for the list of setups man. 12,13,14,79,80,96,97 were along the lines of what i was thinking. there are some other nice setups on there though. awesome link ! :D

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Stating that you have a 4K budget,it is interesting that that site does not post prices;) HMMM? Here is more fun for you this link is for a shop in Phoenix over 36 years in business,the parts used are posted,and you have plenty of choices,not only that the prices are posted and you can actually hear these combos run on the site.www.tuffdawgengines.com :cool:

ill take that statement back actually. its not that parts for the fords are hard to find. there pretty much just as easy as the chevys. the chevys seem to be a tad cheaper ( not much ) but i like the versatility of all the sbc. everything is interchangable. if i wanted to go to a 383 in the future it wouldnt be hard. if i did a 302 and wanted to go up to say a 351 windsor in the future, it wouldnt be as cheap or easy to do as the sbc. its not a big difference but its enough to keep me on the sbc idea for now. also a lot of those combos i pointed out had some pricey parts included. i would plan something SIMILAR but maybe toned down a notch for now and cheaper to work with. i am also leaning towards the chevy because ive found a few m21 muncies locally for decent prices. i was talking with a guy on the hamb that said a chevy II oil pan would work. still searching for info. and the steering box is another issue im looking for info on. im just looking for as much possible info as i can soak up right now. thanks for the response jeff. i think you actually gave me a lead on a few intake manifolds over on the hamb for my 239 ? :D thanks for all your help man

start with a 351 then, you can stroke up to ungodly numbers like 451 or something

can anybody give me some good links to setups for a 351. im gonna start searching for info now. i really wanna keep it under $4k. what kind of power can i get for this money ? reliability ?

OK,we really have to get you thinking "Ford in a Ford" so here are some places to educate you: www.sbftech.com this site is HARDCORE SBF Ford, you can learn a lot there it is a "NO B.S." forum do a lot of reading there.Also www.fordmuscle.com,great info in tech archives and forums,www.network54.com/forum/11947/ Now if you really want to make some massive torque and power see if Tech Inspector still has the Dyno-Sim numbers He did on an F.E. Block Ford several months back for a guy named Jeff (not me), the F.E. big block Fords are actually one of the easiest to swap in your '54 you just flip the stock big block mounts and set it in place,due to the port placement in the heads there is actually more exhaust clearance than the small block.For some info on a 351W & '54 Ford build with lots of pictures check out HAMB member "desertdroog".

cool thanks man. i actually love the f.e series motors. before i got my 54 with the y block i was really looking for anything with a 390. awesome motors. and i usually am all for keeping a ford in a ford. i just figured it would be easier to do a sbc swap. im only 18 and still learning so i kinda want to keep it simple since this is my first time doing all this stuff

ive been looking and looking and i think i might stick with the chevy. i dont think i can get the power out of a windsor that i can with the same money in a chevy. ive looked into the oil pan issues and the guy who is helping me build the air ride system can fab up some motor / trans mounts. and chevy parts are absolutely everywhere. i would like to do a short block and build the top end myself. im thinking the afr 190 heads and one of the comp cams. not sure on intake/ carb combo yet. can anyone recommend a short block to start with ? or maybe a different way to go about it ? any advice is appreciated

Get a roller SBC block.

I would have to agree--we are doing a lot of roller cam sbc and blocks vary as to dipstick on drivers or passengers side of block and wheather there is a fuel pump mounting boss and whether it is drilled or not---carb engine need the fuel pump or addition of electric pump--
I also have several billet alum adapters so we can use 2 piece seal cranks and/or early pan

239 Y block? Didn't know there was one, i recall 272, 292 and the 312. I would not cut loose a good 'y' block, they have the best sound ever and the 'cool' factor outweighs any possible benefit of another sbc - regardless of horse power.
You want to get way cool, grab one of them latham superchargers with the sidedraft carters that pop up on ebay and add that to your motor with a pair of thunderbird valve covers and that is one of the holy grails of hot rodding.
But then, i am not normal so my advice isn't always spot-on.

im all for the y blocks. but the 239 only came in 54 and the internals are different than the 272 292 312s. there were veryyy little speed parts made for them. and its gonna need a rebuild soon. parts are a mother and they make no power. i like the y blocks. but i really want something i can just beat on and have some good power and not have to worry about too much. and i dont feel like dealing out tons of cash for something that makes 130hp

it took me almost a month just to find a 4 barrel manifold for the 239. and it had a teapot 4v bolt pattern so i needed an adapter, and had to switch the oil pump and distributor out to run the newer 390 holley. ive considered the larger 292s etc but there not cheap to make power with.

You're right about that, 'y' blocks are right salty to build and low on power. You aren't far from me and a guy was in here a couple days ago that has a complete FE 390 with C6 in his shop and wants it to go away, he said make an offer.

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Originally Posted by greengrenade

it took me almost a month just to find a 4 barrel manifold for the 239. and it had a teapot 4v bolt pattern so i needed an adapter, and had to switch the oil pump and distributor out to run the newer 390 holley. ive considered the larger 292s etc but there not cheap to make power with.

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i wanna do a 4 or 5 speed. plus im not doing the swap untill summerand im really tight on space right now so i dont think i can make an offer right now. thanks for the offer tho :D

so can anyone point me to a shop or company to get a block or short block from at a decent price. like i said id like to stay under 4k, and spend the majority of my money on heads, and a good cam, carb, intake combo.

With all this talk about the old "Y" blocks, I did some digging in my archives and found some pretty interesting stuff about the 239 - including the specifications that may be of interest to anyone still running one of these old guys. Enjoy

"The first Y-block was the 1954 239 cu in Ford engine; known for its deep skirting, which causes the engine to resemble a “Y”. It was rated at 130 hp and it replaced the 239 cu in Flathead which was rated at 106 hp. The Y-block was considered a major advancement over the Flathead. It is known for having oiling problems in the rocker shafts due to the fact the oil first went to the crankshaft bearing, then to the camshaft bearings, then to the rocker shafts. This problem plagued the entire Y-block family and could be remedied by running a copper line from the oil pump and then to the rocker shafts. (I did this on a 312 that I had and it really did cure the oiling problem to the rocker shafts!)

The oiling problem was caused by the passage from the center cam bearing to the cylinder head being offset by an inch and too small. The motor oils of the 1950’s were low in detergents, but high in coke; when combined with short trips and infrequent oil changes, this led to blockage of this passage. This left the lower end with ample oil while the rocker shaft assemblies literally burned up. The external oiler kit essentially provided oil to the rocker shafts from the oil pressure port on the outside of the engine.

A quick reference to the engine specifications for 1955-57 will show the Ford V-8s ahead of the Chevrolet counterparts in displacement, horsepower and torque. The real enemy of the Y-block was its displacement limit. The original architecture was very small and tight. Even with the benefit of today's technology (aftermarket rods and stroker cranks), the real limit of a Y-block is about 348 cubic inches, while the Chevrolet could be modified well past the factory limit of 400 cu in. The ever-increasing size and weight of the standard passenger car, the added parasitic losses for accessories (power steering, power brakes and air conditioning), cheap gasoline and the horsepower race all caused Ford to outgrow its first OHV V-8 engine. It is interesting to note that both Ford and Chevrolet went to optional "big block" engines for 1958, 352 cubic inches at Ford compared to 348 cubic inch at Chevrolet.

As mentioned above, the 239 Ford Y Block engine was first introduced by Ford in 1954 as a substitute for the 239 flathead engine. At the time the Ford Y Block 239 was thought of as a significant improvement over the 106 horsepower flathead, by almost 30 horsepower.

The original Y Block 239 included unique parts that weren’t compatible with Ford Y Block engines developed later on. These included a mechanical camshaft and 14 mm sparkplugs with a washer that would later be replaced in 1955 by a tapered seat 18 mm spark plug.

The Ford Y Block 239 engine was an innovative Ford production V8 that had a number of features not seen before on V8 engines. These features included full pressure oil filtration, valve guide oil diverters, shaft rocker arms, a single water pump, counterweighted fuel pump concentric, oil trough for timing chain oiling, and staggered oiling at the connecting rods.

In the following years from its debut, designers made some select improvements. In 1956, they added an oil singer at the back of the crankshaft. In 1957, they exchanged the old asbestos rope seals with neoprene rear seals. Then, in 1958 they replaced the cartridge oil filter system with a disposable oil filtering system while upgrading the ignition system and oil pump.

The Ford Y Block 239 Cubic Inch engine was included with Ford trucks from the years 1954 to 1964, Ford cars from 1954 to 1962, and the Ford Thunderbird during years 1955, 1956 and 1957. It was succeeded by the Ford-Edsel (FE) and the Ford Windsor engines."

GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
• Model Designation: V8 - U4 (first serial number: U4-100001: additional letters between basic model letters and serials numbers refer to paint)
• Valve Location: In head
• Bore and Stroke: 3.50" x 3.10"
• Piston displacement, Cubic Inches: 239.4
• Compression ratio: 7.2
• Maximum Brake Horsepower: 130 @ 4200 RPM
• Maximum Torque Lbs.Ft. @ RPM: 214 @ 1800
• Normal Oil Pressure Pounds: 50
TUNE UP SPECIFICATIONS
• Spark Plug Make: Champion H10
• Spark Plug Gap, Inch: .035
• Firing Order: 15486372 (from front to rear: Right 1-2-3-4; left 5-6-7-8)
• Ignition Timing: Wide mark is TDC, each succeeding mark represents 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 degrees before TDC. Set timing 3 degrees BTDC on cars with manual shift transmission and 6 degrees BTDC on Fordomatic equipped cars. Marks located on pulley.
• Engine Idle Speed, RPM: Manual shift trans. 475; automatic shift trans. 450
• Cylinder Head Torque Lbs.Ft.: 75
• Compression Pressure & Cranking Speed: 130 Min.
PISTON AND RING SPECIFICATIONS
• Fitting Pistons with Scale:
o Removed from Above
o Shim thickness to use: .002
o Pounds Pull on Scale: 5 to 10
• Rings: (for tapered bores for minimum clearance fit rings in tightest portion of ring travel)
• Ring Gap, Minimum: Compression: .010
• Ring Gap, Minimum: Oil: .010
• Clearance in Groove: Compression: .002-.0035
• Clearance in Groove: Oil: .0015-.003 Wristpin Diameter, Inch: .9120-.9123
• Wristpin Diameter, Inch: .9120-.9123
VALVE SPECIFICATIONS
• Operating Clearance:
o Intake: .019 Hot
o Exhaust: .019 Hot
• Clearance for Timing Intake:
o .019
• Valve Seat Angle, degrees: 45
• Valve Timing: (BTDC = before top dead center; ATDC = after top dead center)
o Intake opens: 8 degrees BTDC
o Exhaust Closes: 5 degrees ATDC
• Valve Spring Pressure Pounds at Inches Length:
o Spring: 54 @ 1.82 (only one spring used)
• Valve Stem Clearance:
o Intake: .004 Max.
o Exhaust: .005 Max.
ENGINE BEARING SPECIFICATIONS
• Connecting Rod Bearings:
o Journal Diameter, Inches: 2.1880-2.1888
o Bearing Clearance, Inch: .037 Max.
o Rod End Play, Inch: .012 Max.
o Rod Bolt Tension, Lbs.Ft.: 45-50
• Main Bearings:
o Journal Diameter, Inches: 2.4980-2.4988
o Bearing Clearance, Inch: .0042 Max.
o Main Bolt Tension, Lbs.Ft.: 95-105
CAPACITY DATA
• Cooling System:
o Without heater: 20 quarts
o With heater: 21 quarts Fuel Tank: 17 gallons (station wagons and couriers 19 gallons)
• Engine Oil:
o 5 quarts
• Transmission:
o without overdrive: 3 pints
o with overdrive: 4
• Automatic Transmission:
o 9-3/4 quarts
• Rear Axle:
o 3-1/2 pints;
o Station wagon: 3
STARTING MOTOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Unit Number: FAC-11001A&B
• Brush Spring Tension: 48-56 ounces
• No Load Test: 70 Amps, 6 Volts @ 3000 RPM
• Torque Test: 700 Amps, 3.5 Volts, 16 Lbs.Ft. Torque
LOADAMATIC DISTRIBUTOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Distributor part number: FAE-12127A
• Cam Angle, degrees: 28
• Breaker Gap, Inch: .014-.016
• Condenser Capacity: .21-.25 Mfds.
• Breaker Arm Spring Tension: 17-20 Oz.
• Distributor Vacuum Advance Data:
o Centrifugal Advance:
- Degrees advance at 500 RPM: 3-1/4 - 4-3/4, Inches vacuum; .72
- Degrees advance at 1000 RPM: 10 - 11, Inches vacuum: 2.2
- Degrees advance at 1500 RPM: 12-1/2 - 13-1/2, Inches vacuum: 3.46
- Degrees advance at 2000 RPM: 14 - 15-1/4, Inches vacuum: 4.4
GENERATOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Generator Number: FBC-10000A (generator rotates clockwise)
• Generator output: FBC-10000A 35 Amps @ 900 (engine speed)
• Brush Spring Tension: 30 oz.
REGULATOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Regulator Number: FAC-10505A
• Cutout Relay:
o Voltage to close points: 6.3
o Reverse Current to Open Points: 0-8 amps
o Voltage regulator setting: 7.4 volts
o Current regulator setting: 34 amps
ENGINE TIGHTENING SPECIFICATIONS (FT. LBS.)
• Spark Plugs: 25-30
• Cylinder Head Bolts: 65-75
• Intake Manifold: 23-28
• Exhaust Manifold: 23-28
• Rocker Arm Shaft Bracket: 12-15
• Rocker Arm Cover: 2 - 2-1/2
• Connecting Rod Cap Bolts: 45-50
• Main Bearing Cap Bolts: 95-105
• Flywheel to Crankshaft: 75-85
• Vibration Damper or Pulley: 85-95

To add to the list, here in Canada the Y-block also came in a 254ci version in the Mercury and Monarch. IIRC it had a longer stroke than the 239 and I think it was only available with a 4 barrel.

actually the manifold i got for my 239 was off of a 54 merc 256 y block. that was about the only 4 barrel manifold i could find. i think offenhauser and edelbrock made 1 but there few and far between. and i think offenhauser even made a 3 deuce manifold for the 239. i could be wrong though. other than that i have founde veryyy little speed parts related to the 239

ttt. any recommendations on where to go for a good short block ?

Send me a PM of what you might want--we build a lot of 383-396 strokers based on late roller blocks--of course we can also do stock strokers, but the stroker stuff is about the same price--we probably have 20 sbc in progress now and yours could be added to the run(not mass produced , but machined in serial with other sbc so set up times are more effienct)