If you were starting from scratch, what would you build?
It is going in a saturday night special hot rod. Shooting for 500 hp N/A ....with the option of spraying it for more.
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If you were starting from scratch, what would you build?
It is going in a saturday night special hot rod. Shooting for 500 hp N/A ....with the option of spraying it for more.
LSX, no contest. This is undoubtably the best product GM performance parts has ever put out. Some day I will own one.
Definitely the LSx. I love my LS1 great power and drivability. Either get the LSX crate to build your own or start with a drop out. Best bang for the buck on a drop out is an LQ9 or LQ4 from a truck or SUV. What kind of car are you plnanning to put it in?
Pat
I agree with falconvan, the LS series are way better.:)
It is going in a 1941 Dodge pickup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Cool
Are you also a fan of the L92 heads?
Those seem to be the factory heads of choice, there are also a number of aftermarket companies selling prepped heads that really make some power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipper_1938
Surf on over to LS1Tech.com Lots of info there, plus there is a hybrids and conversion forum that will help you with your swap. Without that I would have been way longer and more expensive on mine. Very little that has not already been done by someone.
Pat
Are stock cranks and rods worth using? or is aftermarket stuff required?
A lot of guys ar using the stock cranks and rods and just changing the rod bolts. These are 6 bolt main blocks and they hold up pretty well. I have not dealt with modified versions though so best to ask that question over at LS1tech in the Internal engine forum. Lots of good reading over there.
Pat
LSX, I love my 5.3 powered 51 Chevy
LSX,LS I was wondering today what is the difference, and what would be the best model truck or car to be looking for something of the LSX motors.
The car motors are aluminum block, came in Corvettes starting in 97 and V-8 Camaros and Firebirds starting in 98. And in GTOs and Cadillac CTS-V until 2004. Then in 2005 the LS2 came along which is called Gen IV because of some subtle differences mostly in sensor and their locations. The 97-98 motors run good but have differences than the later models. Trucks started getting the motors in 99 with the 4.8 and 5.3 liter, These were iron blocks and I think in 2000 or 2001 started getting aluminum heads. 6.0 liter came in the 2500 and above trucks and then in the SUVs. The 6.0 are designated LQ4 and LQ9. The LQ9 is in the higher end SUVs and has higher compression. That's a very brief description. Mixed in there are the crate motors and the newer LS3 6.2 and the Hipo 5.7 LS6 and super high end 7 liter LS7.
Hope that helps
Pat
helps alot but one other question, is there a differnce in the lsx vs the ls blocks if any at all. and if so, waht about the ls 1 through 7 are those compatible. as like the earlier blocks.
LSX Bowtie Block (Standard Deck). 3.990" finished Siamese Cylinder Bores (ready to be honed to your specifications). 9.26" semi-finished standard Deck Height (ready to be decked to your specifications). Max 4.250" recommended Stroke. Capable of 364 to 482+ cid. Orange Powder Coat finish. Accepts all Gen III & IV LS Heads, Cranks, Cams, Etc. Approximate Finished Weight: 225 Lbs.
Amazing what even a little reading can get me.
Good research! Depending on your budget and goals, the 6.0 truck engines seem to give the best bang for buck. They are cast iron block and wiegh about 80 pounds more than the aluminum block motors. The aluminum block motors won't take much of an over bore (max .005 on early models), the iron blocks will take more. The guys that are using power adders are mostly using the iron blocks. Based on your originally stated goals, I would look for a 6.0 either LQ4 or LQ9. But even the 5.3 motors will make good power. One of the car mags built one with an LS6 cam and not much else that was pumping 350+ hp at the wheels I think. Plus they still got good mileage and drivability.
Pat
so in your earlier post pat you said higher end suv's for the 6.0 so the Cadilac Escalade, and or what else maybe the GMC Denali
Yeah, the Escalade and Denali have the LQ9. Maybe some others had it as an option. Look for vehicles listing 345 hp. But the LQ4 is no slouch either, it just has 9.6 compression instead of the 10-1 that the LQ9 has. Otherwise they are the same. The LQ4s ranged from 285 to 310 HP basically the camshaft was the difference I think. If you do Google searches on LQ9 and LQ4 you will find a bunch of info. If you want to go bigger cubes, there are a number of companies building stroker kits that will take you over 400 cu in.
Pat
Here's an interesting article in tune with your question. They went with a carb set up instead of EFI, but you still can get some ideas
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...sts/index.html
Pat
That is a good read, I am taking a liking to this new tech, that I have been so blind too.
Also I haven't really decided if I want to actually go carbed either, I have had a mind set on the whole EFI idea. I bet that gets expensive also.
The EFI is not too much more expensive, maybe even cheaper, depending on how complete the motor is that you buy. For me I had a pretty much complete motor and it was cheaper to stay FI than to switch to a carb...
yeah but what if some one was to start going semi radical; all the tuning and the componets to do it?? also what about transmission compatibility will ealier styles bolt up.
Yeah, the learning curve on the tuning electronic gear can be daunting. But enough people are doing it that it can't be that bad. Since I don't plan on changing mine up much, I paid a local tuner to do a "Drivability Tune" on mine. He came to my house and we drove around for 2 hours with his laptop plugged in. He would tell me to do something and observe what the motor was doing, then we would stop and he would make adjustments to spark curve or tranny shift points. Then he stuck an air fuel sensor in my tail pipe and drove some more and he made adjustments to the injection. The car drives like a dream now and is super responsive and quick. He also made sure it was a "safe" tune by not letting it get too lean. All these things we used to do with jets, timing light and advance curve while reading plugs.
Transmission bolt pattern is the same for previous Chevy Transmissions. You may need a spacer for the flex plate to run a T350, T400 or Glide. If you are going manual, no reason not to use the T-56 6 speed. If you are building a super strong motor and want an auto, then the 4L80E is quite strong and probably what would come with a 6.0 pull out from a truck. If you want to get real exotic, they also have strong 6 speed automatics now too.
Pat
So since all the electronics need each other do I need the electronic trans to have the engine run right. If so what about changing the computer to ignore them sequences (or whatever) if you cant tell I am not really to bright about the electronics of anything, that is why soo many questions.
You do not need an electronic transmission. You can just tune those control out. Lots of guys are running old style. Challenge becomes connecting the kickdown or TV linkage to the throttle. But the electronic transmissions do work well and are controlled by the ECU, then only a couple wires to hook up and they are already in the harness. The 4L60E is basically a 700R4 with electric controls. The 4L80E is stronger, but also bigger and may require some trans tunnel mods. Some folks say they like the gear ratios better in the 4L80E too. Depends on whether you want an overdrive. That can be great because you can run steep gears and still have a decent cruise RPM.
Don't feel bad about your knowledge level, a little over 3 years ago I was like you feeling my way. I am still a novice, knowledge and experience wise, but I am totally sold now that I have experienced and seen what the modern stuff can do. In my mind, this transition can be compared to what guys in the 40s and 50s experienced going to overhead valve engines from flatheads. Keep doing web searches, reading and asking questions. Just remember some "Internet experts" myself included, may not always have the best answer so get more than one opinion and make sure the answer fits your application.
Pat
Hey thanks Stu I will definately be doing some more research and asking many more questions once they come up. As of right now I will be looking for a mill for future reference, since I have a brand new engine as it sits. It just goes to prove that when it is done, we are not. There is always something that we always can improve on for sure, atleast that is the way I am when it comes to this ever evolving hobby we have.
I'm with Pat on these LS engines. Great platform for a hot rod. I'm in the middle of mine right now. Having the engine harness modified (versus a Painless harness) by a young fella in Southwest Missouri. The price was right and he'll do a simple tune and eliminate the VATS and anything else you might want rid of. Like Pat said....check out LS1 Tech's site. Lots of valuable information on the LS engines. So far from what I gather....looks like the bottom end should easily handle 500-550 hp without anything more than ARP rod end bolts. If you go with a F-body drop out....you'll retain the lighter aluminum block. There is links on the suggested blocks in the Hybrid Conversions section at LS1 techs site. For instance....my 01 WS6 engine retained the throttle cable instead of the drive by wire that a Corvette has. That'll save you money if staying with the fuel injection. Also....in the F-body section....there are guys boasting dyno pulls of 490 hp with nothing more than a T-Rex cam swap, LS6 intake, and long tube headers EDIT (and a high rpm stall convertor) . You really need to converse with the young fella's. They really seem to know their stuff.
I belive the only difference between a LS and an LSX is the latter isnt an in-car productions motor. Its a platform crate engine....cast iron...with the potential of huge displacements with the use of long stroke cranks. If your wanting a monster....go with the LSX block from GM Performance....think they have them priced way down right now. If 550 hp is what you'd concider a mid performer....then IMO a drop out from a F-body would fit the bill perfectly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine
BTW. Thanks Pat for the hint on the Corvette donut mounts. Those will look real nice polished up.
Dave G
Some people groups all of the LS engine variants under the LSX banner, not just engines using the GM racing block.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stovebolter
Yeah, it's all semantics. Folks started out saying LSx or LSX to mean any of the LS1, LS2, LS3, LS4, LS6, LS7 motors and their truck/SUV variants. Then GM came out with their LSX named over the counter HIPO iron block and confused that. In any case it is a great well designed platform that is already becoming the successor to the SBC, and is encroaching on the BBC too! More and more vendors are building good stuff for it so the price for mods will eventually come down.
Go for it and keep us posted on your project
Pat
The L92 heads are the whole reason I want to build one. I think those heads are capable of serious horsepower for cheap.
Big ports, big valves, and an efficient combustion chamber. :)