Need Tech Inspector & Dave Seversons thoughts

O.K. guy's need your insights as I have researched and researched and have come up empty. As you know me & the kid went 305 sprint car racing last year and he won the track championship and our motor seemed to dominate,but as you would guess them other guy's are gonna try and step up their programs so I gotta try and step up ours. Theres not much else I can do to the motor and stay within the rules "and I refuse to cheat in the least bit" Buttttttttt I do have the option of going to injection. Right now we have a 650 alky carb on top of a jap knockoff of the nascar air gap manifold also running a velocity stack.we can run injection up to 2 3/16 butterflies. we are running the iron 305 #601 heads and ya can't touch the ports or gasket match. I just need to know if the injection will make any more power or torque ?

I believe you would pick up a bit in both torque and horsepower, but the biggest improvement would be in throttle response.... Throttle steering the car and the ability of injectors to pick up the revs so much quicker then a carb would probably be the biggest improvement. Along with the injection, I'd set up the throttle pedal for the longest possible travel so the kid can work the throttle in very small movements, really helps in the mid summer dry slicky racing.... Another benefit would of course be the high speed bypass pill..... allows a good "fat" bottom end on the engine and allows some real tuning the mixture on the big end.... I'd say go for it!!!!!

PS--That's the same size we used to run when they had the ridiculous 310ci limit at Jackson Speedway.... Even without any downtube injectors they worked good, actually think that throttle response was better with the small injectors....Hard to tell, though. Jackson was also a non-wing track, we ran the same chassis with a 410 in it and a wing. Always felt like the small engine and injectors had quicker response... Could have also been a lot to do with no wing, though.......

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Originally Posted by HWORRELL

O.K. guy's need your insights as I have researched and researched and have come up empty. As you know me & the kid went 305 sprint car racing last year and he won the track championship and our motor seemed to dominate,but as you would guess them other guy's are gonna try and step up their programs so I gotta try and step up ours. Theres not much else I can do to the motor and stay within the rules "and I refuse to cheat in the least bit" Buttttttttt I do have the option of going to injection. Right now we have a 650 alky carb on top of a jap knockoff of the nascar air gap manifold also running a velocity stack.we can run injection up to 2 3/16 butterflies. we are running the iron 305 #601 heads and ya can't touch the ports or gasket match. I just need to know if the injection will make any more power or torque ?

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I am not Tech. or Dave but I have one question.
Have you had this engine on a dyno and tried different carbs??
The reason I ask is on our IMCA mod. 383 we found 11 hp more by running a Chad Baker carb.
The carb. we had before was a Willis carb.

Eric,dyno time is not an option especially for a $400 to win 305 sprint car. Don't get me wrong dyno time would be great but it's just not in the our budget.

Dave thats what I was thinking,just had to let someone else confirm it.
found a nice 2 1/8 unit on ebay guess I'll bite the bullet and see if I can win it.

It's been awhile since I messed with injection but I'm guessing I need a 0 pump and I'm thinkin 18A nozzles,22lbs on the main,56lbs on the high speed and about a 95 pill to get us in the ballpark????

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Originally Posted by HWORRELL

Eric,dyno time is not an option especially for a $400 to win 305 sprint car. Don't get me wrong dyno time would be great but it's just not in the our budget.

Dave thats what I was thinking,just had to let someone else confirm it.
found a nice 2 1/8 unit on ebay guess I'll bite the bullet and see if I can win it.

It's been awhile since I messed with injection but I'm guessing I need a 0 pump and I'm thinkin 18A nozzles,22lbs on the main,56lbs on the high speed and about a 95 pill to get us in the ballpark????

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Should be close with the 2 1/8" We used 18's in the 310's if my (feeble) memory serves me correctly... We also ran the dial-a-jet....not recomended for young drivers, they always discover that leaner is meaner....with the expected results!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Oh yeah, one other thing H.....

You're going to need to put a midget together for the kid.... I tried to get tickets for the Turkey Bowl this year in Tulsa, looks like the only way to get in is to go with a car.... Thought maybe you could help me out here?????

Dave,been working on the midget deal, may be able to fanangle him a couple rides this summer.Thought real hard about renting him a ride for the Chili Bowl
but that deals become so big that if you have never run in a previous one you have to run the tuesday night qualifiers and finish top 4 in the main just to get a chance to to run in one of the regular night qualifiers. "an almost impossible feat" I had the privelege of running in 12 chili bowls with the second one being my first,that building is so big that they had a boat show and a swap meet going on at the same time,wasn't a single enclosed trailer there even with the likes of Wofgang,Mcspadden,Schrader,etc. Nowadays it takes 2 plus days to get em all in there.I think there was 248 ? cars there this year. But if we get a chance to do it I'll be sure to let ya know.

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Originally Posted by HWORRELL

Dave,been working on the midget deal, may be able to fanangle him a couple rides this summer.Thought real hard about renting him a ride for the Chili Bowl
but that deals become so big that if you have never run in a previous one you have to run the tuesday night qualifiers and finish top 4 in the main just to get a chance to to run in one of the regular night qualifiers. "an almost impossible feat" I had the privelege of running in 12 chili bowls with the second one being my first,that building is so big that they had a boat show and a swap meet going on at the same time,wasn't a single enclosed trailer there even with the likes of Wofgang,Mcspadden,Schrader,etc. Nowadays it takes 2 plus days to get em all in there.I think there was 248 ? cars there this year. But if we get a chance to do it I'll be sure to let ya know.

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Speaking of Wolfie, was at his shop the other day.... He's building some non-disposable type sprint car chassis.... Since the big crash he's all about safety and affordability..... Nice stuff, of course!!!! Weird thing about Doug, he at one time was the best of the best----but all the time never forgot where he started out.... If you haven't got his new book yet, get it... Speedway has it on their site. Also, friend of mine just sold one of the Wolfgang 4X cars back to Speedy Bill. Ron restored it, then had it in the Museum at Knoxville.... Speedy Bill saw it and had to have it!!!! Anyway, the car is "back home" and in Bill's museum if you ever get through Lincoln.....

Yeah I want that book,we where just taking about it during the 500 party.
I've got Op's,Andretti's,Schrader's and Hewitt's books and they're all good.
Wolf was one of my hero's so gotta have that one. Been trying to get the kid to sit down and read em for awhile now,guess I forget he's 17 and only interested in split tail. But he sat down last week during the snow storm and read Hewitts Law.

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Originally Posted by HWORRELL

Yeah I want that book,we where just taking about it during the 500 party.
I've got Op's,Andretti's,Schrader's and Hewitt's books and they're all good.
Wolf was one of my hero's so gotta have that one. Been trying to get the kid to sit down and read em for awhile now,guess I forget he's 17 and only interested in split tail. But he sat down last week during the snow storm and read Hewitts Law.

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Man, I can't even remember 17.... So know that Ronnie sold the 4X car, he's working on restoring the very last Daryl Dawley super mod car that he built before the sprinters.... Don Reiners drove it (the guy who eventually drove for us) to a track championship.... Found the car over in Minnesota and brought it home.... Soon as it's done it's headed for the Knoxville museum, too...

Good old Op..... Sure do miss him... Had the privilige of racing against him both before and after his big nasty.... What a guy!!!! The original outlaw... I was in Indiana wrenching for Bob East the first summer Op "invaded" the area.... It was awesome to watch him race when he was in his prime.... At the old 18th Street Speedway one night he won the heat, the dash, and the main.....then wento out the back gate with the track owners daughter!!!! It was quite a summer, have to sit down and talk about it sometime with ya!!!!:LOL: :LOL:

Well, waiting for some pics, and tell the kid to keep his head screwed on straight... Sure be fun to get with you guys sometime for a bit of racing... I do need some moly, and Shapiro Supply is right there in St. Louis........

Howard, thanks for including me in your request, but I yield to Mr. Severson and others who have more experience than I do. I'm just an old carburetor kind of guy. :)

Well from what I have seen usually a port fuel injection engine will not make as much power as a carb. There are a few factors here but the main one is that the fuely does not give the same charge cooling effect as introducing the fuel at the carb. In addition many port jobs point the injectors at the opposite runner wall which reduces drivability at least.

However the port job can be very tunable and after a lot of experienced tuning it might overcome this. I would conclude that for naturally aspirated stuff EFI is better suted for street .................

Kitz

It's not EFI Kitz. Just good old fashioned Hilborn mechanical injection!!!! Makes sprint cars (even the small engined one's) go really fast!!!!

OK, for a drag type engine I could see the advantage in Hilborns for sure. I was thinking more street ....................

Kitz