.....Hi everyone, Is there any special machining or any trick to putting solid roller lifters in a 400 small block Chev.??? Is this what they mean by 'retro rollers'???? THANKS ;) Bill
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.....Hi everyone, Is there any special machining or any trick to putting solid roller lifters in a 400 small block Chev.??? Is this what they mean by 'retro rollers'???? THANKS ;) Bill
There is no special machining to install solid roller is 400 SBC. Retro lifter mean after market Hyd Roller lifter. Now if you chose to use 350 Rods in a 400 you'll need to be sure order small base circle cam for more rod and cam clearance.
You will need the retro rollers..... and new pushrods........
If you do decide to go soild roller just make sure you don't "over cam" it.Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
.....Thanks Race car, Shawnlee & Eric! But now I'm confused, Shawnlee said I'd "need retro rollers" but Race said that "retro means aftermarket Hyd roller lifter". So I need 'retro solid roller lifters', correct??? or do they not make them???
Eric, quote; "don't go to big', glad that your keeping on eye on me!!! Yes, I was probably thinking 'too big'. What would you say is the BIGGEST cam that I could go with; 413 cu. in., 10 to 1 compression {my 'forgot the what you call it' compression is a little under 8.5 to 1 {dymanic?}, AFR 195 heads {but I was also thinking maybe bigger AFR heads, the 210's?}, dual plane manafold {but I'd go to single plane}, 3000 true stall, 4:11 true track rear gears. Cam now is 230/236 @ .050 duration, .522 lift {w/ 1.6 rockers}.... Is there a reason why you can't go to big w/ a sollid roller that's a different why you shouldn't go to big w/ a hyd roller??? THANKS, Bill
NO you need RETRO roller lifters ONLY for going in a older flat cam engine not set up for GM stock hyd roller block... Soild Roller you do not call them retro just the hyd rollers. I WOULD PUT A BIG ROLLER CAM IN THE DAMN THING PUT SOME CR TO IT if not why bother with it???? you have a light car it is not like your going to pull a fifth wheel with it ???
With your comp. ratio,stall speed,and gear ratio. you might as well run a hyd. roller cam.Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
I would guess no more than 240 degree's at .050.
I would keep the 195 cc heads but I.M.O. it would be a toss up between the RPM Performer and the Victor intake above 4,500 RPM'S.
......THANKS ;) Pat, I don't want to get to carried away cuz I want to run pump gas. As it is my motor pings like crazy on regular.... Eric, ok so I'll look for one that's not more than 240. I though the bigger heads would be better with a bigger cam? Guess not, but that's ok as it's cheaper to not change them :)... Isn't the single plane better at higher RPM's?? Bill
Sorry,I wrote that very poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
You are right about the manifold.
At 4,500 and above the Victor is the way to go.
I would not even look at the bigger heads un-less your wanted to turn the engine above 7,000 but you don't have the comp. ratio to support it.
....Thanks Eric, Nope, don't want to spin my motor to 7000!!! I'm afraid at 7000 it'd spin my parts right out the bottom end! AFR has a new Eliminator head that they say puts out way more HP & TQ. It comes in a 195. I'll try to attach a link...... Oh Eric, Would you use the Victor or the Victor Jr. ??? Thanks again, Bill
AFR link; www.airflowresearch.com/eliminator.php
Yes,the Eliminator's are great heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
You will be able to build an easy 500+ on pump gas with either a hyd. roller cam or mech. roller cam.
I would run a Victor JR with a 1 inch open spacer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
Hi Bill That sounds like a good combination you are putting together. With 10:1 Compression and pump gas you will want a cam with at least 250* at .050 " . If you run less duration your have to run less than 36* total timing. I have a very similar setup in my 55 Belair.
415 CID 10:1 Comp. Sportsman 210cc heads Crane solid roller .556/252*565/260* at .050" Victor JR Demon 750DP. Pulls like a big block and i get 18 MPG.I have had this engine in the car for 7 years. Good luck Chris
He has already stated he does not want a 7,000 rpm engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidedraft Deuce
If he get's a cam that has 250 or more at .050 he will be back in the 7,000 rpm area.
He does not have enough stall at 3,000 rpm to run a cam that is 250 at .050
yes thats a big cam 050 mild 250.. i would say he will not care for it much at low rpm
Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
Then He should run a Mechnical and save $400.00
No,I would like to see him run a hyd. roller cam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidedraft Deuce
The mechanical is for high rpms...........................
Yes,I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnlee28
He has already said he does not want a 7,000 rpm engine.
.....although my engine was blueprinted & balanced & built by a professional, it is built with cast parts; stock cast crank, stock 5.56 stock rods {but all ARP bolts, studs & forged pistons}. This is why I don't want to spin it to high. I think it would blow up with cast parts, wouldn't it? Plus it's a street car & I feel a 3000 true stall {3000 RPM is where it quits gaining RPM's when I punch it with the Trans Brake on} is already pushing the edge of 'street-able' for cruising around. 30" tall rear tires, 4:11 rear end with a Turbo 400 Trans & I'm at around 3000 RPM @ 65 MPH....
The only reason I want to go with a Solid roller is I heard they sound better than Hydraulics!!! {you know, the sound 'bling' thing ;)... Is this true??? If not, I'll go with the Hyd. roller.... THANKS ;) Bill
The mech. roller is less money than the hyd. roller cam.Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
I would run a cam that lets you run a steel gear rather than the bronze gear.
I have customers that get 10,000 miles out of the bronze gear and some will only get 3,000 miles before it becomes razor sharp and puts all the metal down in the pan.
I have a Solid Street Roller they don't require a bronze gear and have a wider lobe separation than a drag racing grind. The wide lobe separation lowers the Rev rage and makes a lot of low end torque. The cast gear for the distributor is pressed on the billet cam. The cam I have In my 415 makes 14Inches of vacuum and Idles at 800 rpm.
To your original post : the reason I said to run more duration than you have currently is that will bleed off some low speed cylinder pressure witch will help with your detonation problem.
Yes they sound a lot better than a Hyd.
Yes they cost less.
Yes they make more power.
No you don't have to spin the motor past 6000 RPM that's why its called a street roller.
The wider L/S will actually make more cylinder pressure causing more of a chance of detonation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidedraft Deuce
Not all street rollers are made from a billet some are made from cast iron.
GM supplies the "Melonized" gear for around 43 bucks. It works on steel and cast cams. Have three Steel roller cam engines running for over three years with this gear in them and no failures or strange behaviors from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
The cam that I suggested will not make more low speed cylinder pressure than the cam he has now. Your nit picking what I am saying and just confusing the facts. I am just trying to help him make the right decision and your trying to prove that you know more than I. Later
Hey,Bud I do this for a living.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidedraft Deuce
Why don't you stop making posts when you are cluless about certain things.
Anyone that builds engines knows that a wide L/S cam will build more cylinder pressure.
Why not sit back and learn a thing or two.
**) **) **) :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
Well you must be starving because you can't even read.
The cam he has now is: "Cam now is 230/236 @ .050 duration, .522 lift {w/ 1.6 rockers}"
The cam I recommended: "With 10:1 Compression and pump gas you will want a cam with at least 250* at .050 "
Now tell me who is the "clueless"(can't even spell) one.
Even the rookie bench/keyboard racers like you should know this one.:LOL:
Where's my popcorn?
:LOL:
My engine did not have to have a cam of that duration........................nor did I have to resort to derogitory school room name callin to get the right cam for it either..............Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidedraft Deuce
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnlee28
I thought the same thing when he called me clueless!!:CRY:
Here is a good link on cam basics.......http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...selection.html ....This is link directly to the section on LCA ......There is more to it than a straight forward X=Y type caulculation,meaning just the static compression ratio is not enuff.....The heads /roller rockers at 1.6 and intake valve sizing ,vehichle weight,etc all come into play for cam sizing.
He has 1.6 rockers ,meaning the actual engine duration is larger than the advertised cam duration,also the LCA has alot to do with it too, ,meaning a cam with alot less than 250 can be used in this situation.
Erik has folowed along with this entire build ,which goes many posts deeper than this one,he knows which heads ,what works been done to them,vehichle type ,tire size ,gear ratio,weight and intended usage and specific internal parts that are not listed in this post.
I would not be soo quick to wheel out a parts suggestion,when its someone elses money and fun at stake,unless I was 100 percent shure it was exactly what was needed ,not something that will work,especially when someone else has already given good information.
how about picking a cam for me!! :LOL: 302 chevy 12:5-1 pop up's 2.02 1.6 valves camel hump's <dont give me no crap :LOL: > valve springs are good up to .600 lift gonna have an 830 or larger carb on it with a tall single plane. i have a list but was wondering what some of you guys would pick
I have had a 400 small block with the short 5.56 rods for 40000 miles in a Cobra,with a solid flat tappet ,254 @0.50, 5.75 lift with 1.6 roller rockers .I ahve revved the sh#t out of it all the way to 7500rpm, often ,always, and it has never broken.The short rods are not ideal, and I have recently rebuilt with 3.750 steel crank and 6" h beam rods. The stock cast parts are very strong actually.
Hey Gassersrule, That carb is toooo big for a 302! My cam is an ISKY Z35 grind on a small base with 1.6 rockers,makes great power,but a little lumpy under 2000 rpm. I use an 800 spreadbore double pumper on a 406 that pulls 8000rpm.If you use stock 1.5 rockers this cam will be very streetable.
750 wasnt big enough ! yes see, i need that big of lift on 1.5 ratio rockers :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnlee28
Shawn thanks for the post. Your right there was not enough info in the initial post to pick the perfect cam given all the variables that have to be taken in to consideration to do that.
The Popularhotrodding cam theory supports everything I posted.
However I have built several 400 SBCs and the one Bill described is very similar to the engine that's currently in my 55 Belair. I did extensive research to come up with a combination that had a very broad torque curve and Max. H/P yet runs on pump gas. Initially I had a flat tappet that was .536 252 .542 260 and a old edelbrock torquer. With that setup I made 420 RWH. I then installed a roller cam with similar specs and a victor jr. That combo netted 465 RWH on 93 pump gas.A 1.6 rocker only adds about 3* of duration to that set up. So as you can see i am not just throwing random suggestions out there.
My post was based on fact not theory.
I can see by the number of post that you and Eric have that you spend a lot of time on this forum. So I can see why you would defend him with out hesitation. I can assure you I am not new to the world of cars or forums.
I have over 30 years of Hotroding behind me not including the time I spent In the garage and at the track with my dad. I have belonged to the oldest and most respected car clubs in Michigan for over 25 years.
I call it like I see it and I think all my post were correct and reactionary to what was posted by Eric .
Side Draft Deuce,Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
he has "cast parts" cast crank,cast 5.565 rods.
Are you still going to stick with your recommendation of running a cam that has 250 or more degree's of duration at .050?:whacked: