283 v8 build good idea?

:HMMM: Ok, the deal is my dad is thinking about building a motor starting with a 283 bored .125 to a 301. He built these motors back in his time during the early 60's and we want to know if a build like this would stand up to competition now a days. We are ganna go all out on this motor and possibly put around a 200 shot of nitrous on it. We are ganna put it into a stripped car and most likely run 4.11 gears. What do you guys think. Anyone ever built one of these motors? Think we could hit 12 second 1/4 times?

well, it's only '64-'65 motors that can go .125 over I belive, and they were never strong that way. putting a 200 shot of NOS thru it, would kill it quickly I'd think. that wasn't around in the 60's. how about a 283 with a 327 crank, get a 301 that way.

Start with a small-main 327, its already 4" bore.

MMMMM...no. Matt is right. Even most of the first '64 blocks couldn't handle it with out barrel shaping the cylinders and torsional flex on the block was murder. Heating under nos apps would make me shiver in fear of a cast iron shower. Is this a budget thing or wanna be different with a small cubed chebbie? Wanna be different? drop a 307/327 crank in it and take the gears down very deeply. It's gonna be a while before you can tune this thing to run respectibly. 12's are a big stretch to achieve. ("BIG")

Costs more to build a small cube, high RPM, low torque engine then to build a big cube, low RPM, hi torque engine. Scooter will tell you it ain't so, but most of the rest of us have allready learned this lesson.

A small cube engine will run fine, if the car is under 2,800 pounds and either has a 5 speed or a high stall (3000 and up) converter. As for the 4.11 gears, depends on the tires size but probably not deep enough for the amount of RPM you would have to twist this engine to get it in the 12's. Yes, now we'll hear about all the 3500 pound cars that run in the 12's with a 301, just won't hear about all the one's that DON'T!!!!

Might be better off to forget the nostalgia stuff and go with a stroker engine, 383 or bigger, get the car weight at or below 3,000 pounds. Get a good aftermarket stroker kit, aluminum heads with 180 CFM runners, determine your tire diameter and the RPM you want to be at at the finish line BEFORE selecting a gear ratio.

Low RPM big cube engines generally are a lot less maintenance and have increased longevity, too.... Kind of like the old Fram commercial, you can pay me now, or you can pay me later......

Yeah we just wanted something different. He told me that they used to turn 9,000 and sometimes 10 with these motors. The car would be strictly for the track anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seminole_Wind

Yeah we just wanted something different. He told me that they used to turn 9,000 and sometimes 10 with these motors. The car would be strictly for the track anyways.

---

Nothing wrong with running something different, as long as you have the check book to do it.....

I believe horsepower and torque per dollar as it relates to quarter mile performance, more cubes is better. No replacement for displacement. If you really want a pounder and want to be really different, then get one of Erik or Pat's big inch big blocks, same car with their setup will go in the 10's!!!!!!!!

Ohh yeah and matt i never said anything about him putting nitrous on it in the 60's bub. Go to youtube and type in 283 drag theres a 283 with 250 shot of nitrous running 10.40.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seminole_Wind

Ohh yeah and matt i never said anything about him putting nitrous on it in the 60's bub. Go to youtube and type in 283 drag theres a 283 with 250 shot of nitrous running 10.40.

---

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Deja Vu all over again. Check out gasserules's posts, he's been having this argument on here for years.....:LOL: :LOL: And yes, all those hydraulic cammed, stock valve train 301's turned 9500 RPM.......:LOL: :LOL:

When adding a 200 shot of nitrous, you must have some very stable cylinders on the bottom end, some block fill would help, but still not guarantee a lot of longevity. Might work, but IMO it's a gernade with the pin allready pulled half way out......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seminole_Wind

Ohh yeah and matt i never said anything about him putting nitrous on it in the 60's bub. Go to youtube and type in 283 drag theres a 283 with 250 shot of nitrous running 10.40.

---

I know that, N20 was not redially available for automotive use at that time, or common. but that is why your dad's .125 over 283's lived:) a stock bore, or probably even up to a .060 over 283, could run n20 fairly safely.

Seminole..."anything" can be done. We are asking questions to relay what we have experienced. Our interest in your success is at heart. That's why we ask good questions because it's very hard to read your mind as in what you and your Pop want to accomplish.

Back in the '60's I had a few .125 over SBC's and they weren't that happy. If you want a 301 why not get a standard bore small journal 327 and drop in a 283 crank or better yet find an early z28 crank.

if you're gonna build a 283 i would try and get a corvette fuel injection for it, use a stock 283 crank dont overbore it if you want it to last, leave it closer to stock bore, use all light weight heavy duty parts on the bottom, and build a valve train made for spinning HIGH rpms, thats the way 283s make power is revving like crazy, get some heads made for flowing right with the fuel injection, i've never messed with a classic vette injection system so i dont know how tuneable they are....next put a 5 speed behind the car, use a good heavy duty rearend with like a 4.56 gear, possibly a ford 9", get a 4link kit for your car so your rearend will hook up, use the best clutch money can buy, and dont forget to put brakes on the car cause you'll need um..... i'm sure you could pull under 12s with that setup.... its gonna cost you a lot though.... and probably cause a few headaches along the way since a high rpm 283 (which is what a 283 is best used for) has not so much torque, you're gonna need that rear gear to make up for the loss of torque, and a good launch

First off welcome to the board Seminole. If you stick around for a while I think you'll find there are some very helpful and informative people around here........a lot of guys that have been there done that. Many of the posters here were indeed around in the 50s and 60s building and racing cars.

Let me try to put this into a bit of perspective for you. The title of your thread asks if a 283 build is a good idea (for a drag car) most of the responses will likely indicate that it will work better (and be cheaper) to start with a larger displacement engine. Can you make the 283 (301) run 12's .....you bet with enough money in it and usually for only short periods of time between tear downs. Bearing, ring, rod and piston life are greatly reduced as engine RPM increases (and engine explosions are really spectacular above 6000 RPM).

The 283's were good engines for their time and some racers had really good luck racing them and yes a FEW did turn the really high RPMs, but these were not as common as some people would lead you to believe. The ones that did were strictly very expensive, finicky, race only engines with very limited life expectancies. The engine your contemplating will not be real cheap to build in the first place..... will you be able to build another one when this one does expire? Last I looked there are not a ton of 283s laying around like there were in the 60s and 70s.

Just a questions.......if the 283s could be so successful in a little drag car why don't you see a bunch of them at the strip every weekend (and Scooter your 1 Nova does not constitute a "bunch" :LOL: ) ????? The answer is because you can make a 350 go faster cheaper.

If you want to build a 283 as an exercise in being different go for it and have fun (that's what it's all about) if you want a 12 second car on a budget start with something a bit bigger with a better support base of parts.

As long as you insist on building a screaming small block,start with all new parts,GM perfomance block,newcrank,custom h-beam rods,forged ultralite pistons,customground cam,roller lifters,alum. heads with all the good stuff etc. This will build you a very reliable 302, perhaps 425HP. The same money put into a 454 should take you well over 600 Hank

I built a 283 with Camel Hump heads and Duntov cam and ridiculously-strong valve springs back in the '60's. No bottom end, but Revs! Never heard anything like it. Only ran about 5000 miles, but fun. Wouldn't do it again, though.

I did a Pi## winding 289 in the 60's..... same story no bottom end, but deep gears and a 4 speed in a Falcon body (best shift point was 7200 RPM). Ate clutches and had to adjust the lifters on a weekly basis. Lasted a bit over 9000 miles ( less than a year).

Went to a "mild" 351W and decided a liked torque and longevity a whole lot better.

I guess everybody 's gotta do it once. The guys that do it twice need help.:LOL:

i am fairing ok with the exception of spun mains :LOL: build your 301 and go have some screaming fun! BTW if you put a 327 crank into a 283 youmake a pos 307 thats a no no! its a 327 with a 283 crank that makes a 302. hey i run 12's c'mon guys! :LOL:

307 is a no no??? I would like to hear your reasoning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

307 is a no no??? I would like to hear your reasoning.

---

I think Scooter is just dead set against an arm longer than 3" :LOL:

My stock bore 283 ran 15's maybe in the 14's with a few changes I made in a 3200#car. If you want to be different then do as one post said and do the small Jour 327. Its different and will give you a little bigger disp. I am building a SJ 327 now and have about $1,100 in the short block. Will cost another 1,500 for good top end kit and my long block will be complete for about $2,600 and hopefully about 400 HP. I did not attempt to averbuild my 283 simply because I don't want to distroy it. The bigger you build it the more chance it has of not staying together very long. And if it doesn't stay together you will be stuck looking for more hard to find 283 parts.

The deal is hes 65 and im 20. He really wants to build the motor just to have one again. We already have 2 1961 283 blocks so thats not an issue. Whatever we build its ganna have all the goodies and i guess if we dont like the 283 we can swap it out for another motor. By the way thanks for the info this is the only place that anyone even knew about 283's or motors to say the least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seminole_Wind

Ohh yeah and matt i never said anything about him putting nitrous on it in the 60's bub. Go to youtube and type in 283 drag theres a 283 with 250 shot of nitrous running 10.40.

---

Yes, as everyone on here has told you, you can do it. I didn't look at the 283 you refer to, but chances are it's running an aftermarket steel crank, aftermarket 4-bolt main caps, aftermarket rods and the block is filled to the top with 'crete, negating the water jackets. So, it's not able to be operated on the street. I further suspect that he has to pull the pan often to change out the bearings.

It's simply a matter of moving air through the motor. The more air you move, the more horsepower you make. For instance, a 400 small block spinning 6,000 r's will move an ideal 699 CFM using an efficiency figure of 100%. A 302 will have to be revved to 8,000 r's to move the same amount of air. A 350 would move the same amount of air at 6,900 r's.

As you buzz the smaller motor faster to move the same amount of air as a larger motor, the requirements change in respect to the camshaft, cylinder heads and static compression ratio, moving further and further away from streetability. Any cam you bolt into a motor will have an operating range of about 3,500 r's. In other words, it will make power from 1,000 to 4,500 or 2,000 to 5,500 or 3,000 to 6,500 or in the case of a 302, to make the same power as a 400, 4,500 to 8,000 r's. So, the motor will not pull the hat off your head at revs lower than 4,500. Doesn't sound much like a street motor does it? This is way past a hydraulics camshaft's capability, so a solid or roller mechanical cam will have to be used. Here's an example of the cam I might choose in such a motor.....
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft
Please read the characteristics of this cam in the upper right corner of the spec sheet. You'll need race gas to operate it at minimum 12.5:1 static compression ratio. And check out the valve lift. Do you think you'll be changing out valve springs often?

Now, with all that having been said, yes you can build a nice 302 that will rev to less than the example and be streetable. Just be aware that you can make more power for less money with a larger motor to start with.

It all comes down to knowing what you want. Hot rodding doesn't make any sense, anyway,we're all nuts. If you want a lil' screamer, then go ahead and build one. My previously-mentioned 283 had to be driven around town in first gear, with 4.11 rear, but I loved it! Young and foolish, maybe.Older now. (Still foolish.)

the 350 disease :LOL: yes it takes a little more effort but its well worth it to some of us. watch out for 11's out of mine this year :D

double post dang it

The 283 with a 4" bore is a big gamble. That bug bit me 2 months ago. I found that you can't trust what the internet says about this. Some say mid years can do the bore,,,even Mr. Vizard states this but some say that some 283 blocks were also used as 327 blocks and they can be identified by the scalloped bottoms of the cylinders that will clear the 327 crank throws.
Heres what the machine shops in my area told me,,," WHY????, GET A BIGGER BLOCK!". One shop owner with over 30 years has tried many in years past and plainly told me that only about 10% of 283's will take the bore and no year or identifying block caracteristic will identify them due to core shift.
He wanted $200 to even attempt it because no body shows up to pay for a wasted block when told the bore attempt went thru the wall! Some (few) 283's will but even those should be sonic checked to verify AND,,,probably an expensive 'off-center' bore due to core shift.
I went .060" over to be safe,,,,whats 10 cubic inches??? After all we're talking about a build thats under the 327 here anyway! Go 292 and gear the snot out of it and use a motor design(cam/compression/gear) to utilize the hi-rpm ability. Just my 2 cents,I'm building a 292 right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R Pope

I guess everybody 's gotta do it once. The guys that do it twice need help.:LOL:

---

**) **) **) :whacked: :whacked: :LOL: what does 3 or 4 times mean? :LOL:

Hilarious-