Blower or Turbo on a 406???

I have a 400 .060 over.
Speed Pro hyperutectics
vortecs
lunati bracket master II cam
All balanced

Alright guys, this was discussed before. And you guys recommended I didnt use a blower. I reconfigured my c/r and its going to be 10.84:1 with my current setup. I dont want to even try running pump now. I will be running Power 110 race fuel.

Now what I'm wondering, is whether a blower is suitable for this, as the temps would be dramatically reduced in the combustion chamber on race fuel

Also, whats your guys thoughts on a turbo setup?
And I know I'd have to change many things, crank, pistons, etc.

The current setup I have now SHOULD produce 430 hp. I wanna push around 500 horse at the flywheel. Do you guys have any other ideas? Can my stock block even handle 500?
Any advice is appreciated, especially erik, pat, denny, nitro, and anyone else.

Thanks :)

comp is too high. race fuel, you could probably get away running 6 PSI on 9:1 but, that's pushing it.

Hey Face, good to see you posting this. It can easily be done. Cam is your biggest obstacle for the fuel selection and comp ratio. What feels good to you? I like blowers in all shapes and forms. There isn't a project that I haven't tried a turbo with (toungue in cheek) and it can be done. Most will tell you to back it down on comp ratio and select the right cam. I agree in most cases. NO BOMBS! If your heart is really set on it, change the cam to a suitable pick, keep the 110 running in it for fuel and go very conservative in boost pressures. The racing world said we couldn't run 13.75 C/R in our TA/FC and we ended up setting the national record for three years in a row on the same combo with 50+ runs between tear downs. Hang in there bud and you'll get it done. Remember the temp needs to be controlled at the clyinder head and heat it up in the lower part of the cylinder. Turbos and blowers are all forced induction. How we achieve it is a bit different. Which do you prefer? Turbo or Blower?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

Hey Face, good to see you posting this. It can easily be done. Cam is your biggest obstacle for the fuel selection and comp ratio. What feels good to you? I like blowers in all shapes and forms. There isn't a project that I haven't tried a turbo with (toungue in cheek) and it can be done. Most will tell you to back it down on comp ratio and select the right cam. I agree in most cases. NO BOMBS! If your heart is really set on it, change the cam to a suitable pick, keep the 110 running in it for fuel and go very conservative in boost pressures. The racing world said we couldn't run 13.75 C/R in our TA/FC and we ended up setting the national record for three years in a row on the same combo with 50+ runs between tear downs. Hang in there bud and you'll get it done. Remember the temp needs to be controlled at the clyinder head and heat it up in the lower part of the cylinder. Turbos and blowers are all forced induction. How we achieve it is a bit different. Which do you prefer? Turbo or Blower?

---

I like turbos better, Just the sound of them gives a guy shivers :LOL: Do you think my stock 400 block can handle 500 horse. If I do run a turbo, I would be keeping the PSI to a minimum. Probably 7 pounds at the most. Maybe 5.
Heres the cam Im running

SB-Chevy - Bracket Master II
Lunati Hydraulic Flat
638-00010LK Adv. Duration: 292°/292°
Gross Lift: .480''/.480''
RPM Range: 2000-6000

Now with power 110, how much horse would you assume it will acheive over pump 93? That stuff puts ice on intake manifolds lol its so cold!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by facemelter

I have a 400 .060 over.
Speed Pro hyperutectics
vortecs
lunati bracket master II cam
All balanced

Alright guys, this was discussed before. And you guys recommended I didnt use a blower. I reconfigured my c/r and its going to be 10.84:1 with my current setup. I dont want to even try running pump now. I will be running Power 110 race fuel.

Now what I'm wondering, is whether a blower is suitable for this, as the temps would be dramatically reduced in the combustion chamber on race fuel

Also, whats your guys thoughts on a turbo setup?
And I know I'd have to change many things, crank, pistons, etc.

The current setup I have now SHOULD produce 430 hp. I wanna push around 500 horse at the flywheel. Do you guys have any other ideas? Can my stock block even handle 500?
Any advice is appreciated, especially erik, pat, denny, nitro, and anyone else.

Thanks :)

---

First of all the hyper. pistons scare me a little.
For any blown or turbo or nitrous assisted engine I would use a forged piston.
A stock rod will live at 500 hp if prepped right but the question is for how long.
If it has the cast 400 crank in I would say it is a little un-safe at 500 hp.
You need a cam that favors the exhaust side by 10 degree's and cut on 112-114 l/s.
At .060 on a 400 it will be hard to hold a gasket in it at any boost level.

Your setup is a little scary for me, IMHO. As Erik stated, forged pistons would be a good idea. Also, Are you absoulutely sure that 10.84:1 is a good idea? I also heard that 9:1 is as high as it should get. Just my two cents. If you are sure that you want to run racing fuel, I don't think that comparing it to a 93 octane engine would fair.


If you get this setup to work, you will have one MONSTER engine!!! I am interested in how this turns out. Good luck, Mike.

.60 over is a big deal on a 400 when you're pushing all that power, those siamesed cylinders are going to create some hot spots, especially with those thin walls....... but if you're going to do it, i would spare no cost on the bottom end strength, go fully forged, also the top end is going to need to hold some pressure, o-ring the heads and install the best darn gaskets you can get your hands on...... if you build it right you can handle some boost on that high of a CR but just dont try pushing too much boost

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreamin' Mike

Your setup is a little scary for me, IMHO. As Erik stated, forged pistons would be a good idea. Also, Are you absoulutely sure that 10.84:1 is a good idea? I also heard that 9:1 is as high as it should get. Just my two cents. If you are sure that you want to run racing fuel, I don't think that comparing it to a 93 octane engine would fair.


If you get this setup to work, you will have one MONSTER engine!!! I am interested in how this turns out. Good luck, Mike.

---

10.84 isnt too much c/r IMO. Maybe for pump gas, but keep in mind, im running race fuel. Also, the combo on this engine, is off of Chevy HI performance mags combo they did, not saying its the magic formula or anything, but its what im going off of. The combo is for naturally aspirated setup and I'm weighing my options for a 500 horse 413. Any thoughts on throwing the juice at it? maybe a 75 shot?? For a small shot would it be absolutely necessary to have forged pistons??

Heres the link to the build.
check it out

http://w w w.chevyhiperformance.c o m/techarticles/148_0306_chevrolet_406_big_block_torque/

Do a little searching for info on turbo wind up. Try to keep in mind the a larger snail shell on the exhaust side will keep the turbo much more manangable at lower RPM so as not to bring in the boost too early, too hard. By letting the turbine wind up a bit slower to gradually build boost as the engine starts to rev you reduce the risk of predetonation and back pressuring the turbo and stopping the effective flow. Turbos work on heat exchange rather than exhaust gases just passing through the turbine. The Lunati you picked will work with this app but is not the best turbo cam for an all out turbo reliant app. It will allow your engine to perform through the band if you allow boost to come in a bit later in the power band and keep psi no higher than 7 and probably a good idea to stay with 5-6. Hyperutectics with handle the app but have a greater rate of expansion than forged so this needs to be considered before putting this thing together. If you go forged, go light like a set of Arias. These have a better skirt design and more options for rod length changes as you can order them for the same price by telling them where you want the pin located and they are very strong with no offsets to worry about. Always be deligent in control of upper cylinder temps and let the heat stay in the bottom of the cylinder.

If you had forged pistons, I'd recommend a shot of nitrous to get you to the 500 hp mark. It is the least expensive way to do it. But since you have hypereutectic pistons, I would run it the way it is. You have to build a blower, turbo or nitrous engine from the ground up. Add-ons are definitely not the way to go in your case. Thin .060 overbored cylinder walls and hyper pistons are a recipe for disaster.

One more question about your block. Which casting number is it? 207, 509? Thesals brings up a good point about the .060 overbore. You can use gaskets that will hold. As for block strength, the 509 is a very good scource to use. It's 11 pounds lighter and runs 13% more nickel in the casting. Very durable for your wishes. As a two bolter it still has a wide main cap that seats very well in the block and can be easliy adapted for a splayed cap. The main webbing is thicker and reduces growth that you might experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

One more question about your block. Which casting number is it? 207, 509? Thesals brings up a good point about the .060 overbore. You can use gaskets that will hold. As for block strength, the 509 is a very good scource to use. It's 11 pounds lighter and runs 13% more nickel in the casting. Very durable for your wishes. As a two bolter it still has a wide main cap that seats very well in the block and can be easliy adapted for a splayed cap. The main webbing is thicker and reduces growth that you might experience.

---

I will have to check the number, I dont have it off the top of my head. Also, wouldn't you think the stock caps would be fine? Its not the caps that break, its the casting they're bolted into that does.

I would reccomend Cometic head gaskets. They use multiple layers of material and can be ordered any thickness you desire. They eliminate the need for ringing the heads and they can be reused multiple times.

Good recommendation Typhoon. And Face, the 509 main caps do have a bunch more material for coverage over the journal.

We can talk about block strength all day long but it does not mean a thing if he has the hyper. pistons.
We use to peel the tops right off them just right above the top ring land and this was on a 400 hp stock car engine.
I.M.O.,I would never run hyper. pistons in a blown application.

this is true... i would never run cast or hyper pistons in a blower application.... i dont even like to run them in a stock application.... but i always build things to take WAY more abuse than they're gonna get.... but thats because i've gone the cheap route before and learned my lesson

Yup, no reason to worry about the block, caps, or head gaskets. Pistons are gonna be junk real quick. Get a set of forged pistons and start over, the hypereutectics aren't gonna make it....

If you end up with a turbo, get a water and oil cooled center. We make our own Turbo's and sell them around the world, and one of the most common thing that blows a turbo is NO airfilter! along with no oil to it. It will pick up a screwdriver quicker than you can say Oh Sh.., it's gone and instant turbo death. :eek: That goes for rags, shirt sleves, nuts & bolts, etc, we see it all. the cars we build them for make between 700 and 1400 hp, and drive them on the street. I can drive 700+ hp next to you, and you wouldn't know it, :cool: and very drivable, you can't do the same with a blower(cool factor type), which we have had also over the years. You could drive the turbo anywhere, I wouldn't drive a blower a 1000 miles cross country, but I drive everything I build. ;)

Pat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HemiTCoupe

If you end up with a turbo, get a water and oil cooled center. We make our own Turbo's and sell them around the world, and one of the most common thing that blows a turbo is NO airfilter! along with no oil to it. It will pick up a screwdriver quicker than you can say Oh Sh.., it's gone and instant turbo death. :eek: That goes for rags, shirt sleves, nuts & bolts, etc, we see it all. the cars we build them for make between 700 and 1400 hp, and drive them on the street. I can drive 700+ hp next to you, and you wouldn't know it, :cool: and very drivable, you can't do the same with a blower(cool factor type), which we have had also over the years. You could drive the turbo anywhere, I wouldn't drive a blower a 1000 miles cross country, but I drive everything I build. ;)

Pat

---

You would'nt drive a blower a 1000 miles cross country????:whacked:
Did you forget about all the GMC 71 series blowers for the past 40+ years ago on all the diesel trucks that ran tens of thousands of miles day in and day out??

It's easier to intercool a turbo without obstructing your vision too much. If you want to make big horsepower on gas, you have to intercool so I would side with the turbo. Intercooled engines are all around less prone to exploding, especially if you're going to be doing things like using hypereutectic pistons.

Alright guys, I've decided to not go the turbo route on my 400. main reason being is now, i have hypers, cast crank, and recond rods. I guess I'll have to settle with just 400 horse lol.
I appreciate all of everyones input in this.
Thanks