gm sent wrong engine??

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03-12-2007, 06:12 PM
lit549

gm sent wrong engine??

can anyone tell me if this is right motor?? casting# on block is 10066036. the number on the paper tag is 12499529. i know that this is a target motor with bigger cam, but the motor does not run like 290 horse motor!!!! i think gm sent me a target motor(249hrse) and labeled it a 290 horse motor. how can i tell?? it doesnt lope at all, has 15 in. of vac and wont time right(shows more timing than it runs like,shows alot of timing but u can tell its lugging) takes more timing too run right, and balancer is right on tdc, checked it. any suggestions????? do you think i need too put a adj timing gear because i was told that with this 327 cam (450-460 lift) back in the day that gm had too retard it 30 deg because people would here it run at the dealership and hear it lope and they wouldnt buy because they thought something was wrong with it so gm recalled them and retarded them to take the lope out of it. so is this motor 30deg slow, do i need to put offset cam gear too fix it or did i just get a motor that i cant time because no one can figure it out!! numbers on front pad by the head are imo713-7h04, if that helps at all.:whacked: :whacked: :whacked:
03-12-2007, 06:27 PM
Dave Severson

If the cam was 30 degrees off, the engine wouldn't run at all....
03-12-2007, 06:42 PM
lit549

Thats what im saying . if i put 34deg timing in it it lugs(sounds too slow) ive had three diff old school racers listen to it they all say the same thing theres no way that motor has that much total timing in it because if it did it wouldnt even start and it sounds way too slow!! they all do the same thing time it buy ear and vac gauge. then put light on it and total is thru the roof!! something isnt right ive checked everythig and fixed spit and hesitation. I CANT GET TIMING TOO READ RIGHT. im thinking cam gear has to be off a tooth or something, it still doesnt run like a 290 hrse motor its way slow, no matter who looks at it(experienced mech or me) im frustrated again , i really am starting too think ive got a plain ole 249hrse target motor, because it runs like it!!!!
03-12-2007, 07:07 PM
southerner

Well ............at least the delivery people didn't break it in half.
03-12-2007, 07:13 PM
ceh383

Quote:

Well ............at least the delivery people didn't break it in half.

Now that's funny.....

I'd pull the timing cover off and see if it's all lined up correctly.
03-12-2007, 07:29 PM
lit549

ill try that because im no mechanic(obviously), but ive been around enough hotrods to know something isnt right. thanks guys.
03-12-2007, 07:34 PM
bigdude

Do you have the right timing tag on it? There is a difference between a 305 and a 350, could you have the wrong tag on it? Is the tag at about one aclock or about two?
03-12-2007, 07:37 PM
southerner

:HMMM: Did you check the centrifugal advance in your distributor to see that it asn't sticking ? Be easier to pull the distributor cap and see if the rotor snaps back after grabbing the rotor and twisting the advance forward.

It does happen that the the cetrifugal advance sticks, seizes or is not working right. :eek:
03-12-2007, 07:40 PM
ceh383

I just did a search and that part number comes up to a 290hp 350. I see no intake on it. If the intake was not properly installed you could have a vacuum leak....
03-12-2007, 07:43 PM
lit549

2-0clock

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdude

Do you have the right timing tag on it? There is a difference between a 305 and a 350, could you have the wrong tag on it? Is the tag at about one aclock or about two?

yeah they sent two tabs one for 7" and one for8" im running 6.75 so i put the 7" tab on it it is at 2-0clock. and also southerner i have checked the adv weights (first thing i did) and they are moving freely and canister is working(suck on adv hose and it idles up).:D
03-12-2007, 07:46 PM
lit549

part #

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceh383

I just did a search and that part number comes up to a 290hp 350. I see no intake on it. If the intake was not properly installed you could have a vacuum leak....

wich # did you pull up because i put in 12499529(gm tag part#):whacked: and it is 290/350 but if you put in 10066036(casting#) it shows 249/350.
03-12-2007, 07:54 PM
southerner

Here is an easy way to check your timing. Bring no 1 up to TDC firing stroke using a piston stop and check where your timing mark is on the balancer. If you have a dial indicator you can check your cam timing by reading of the intake valve when it just starts to open. The dial guage method will only work if you have a fully degreed balacer or timing mark stick on tape and the cam specs. This way sure beats dumping the coolant, pulling the water pump, and front cover and replacing seals and gaskets if the cam timing checks out okay.
03-12-2007, 07:55 PM
ceh383

I used the tag number because the same block can be used for several different motor combinations.
I did look a little further and found THIS
Look at the specs...It shows a different block casting number for the 290/350.

It may not be what you ordered.....or it could be a typo......
03-12-2007, 08:10 PM
lit549

yeah i see that im gonna google the diff block number and see what it pulls up. THANKS 383 YOU MAY HAVE JUST ANSWERED A 1700$$ QUESTION ILL LET YA KNOW SHORTLY
03-12-2007, 08:42 PM
lit549

Well When I Pull Up #10066036 It Shows Target Motor, When I Pull Up 10066034 It Pulls Up 290/350. Same When I Pull Up 12499529=290/350. Hell I Dont Know But Ill Find Out Tommorow, If They Sent Me Target Motor Im Gonna Be So Pissed!!!!! How Much Trouble Do You Think Itll Be To Get Them Too Replaceit With The Correct Motor??????
03-12-2007, 09:18 PM
lit549

Hey Found Somemore Info From Pace Perf. Target Motor And 290/350 Both Use The Same Casting Number Those Two Casting Numbers Basically Mean The Same Thing, Only Diff In Motor Is 290/350 Has Cam Used In Corvette And Camaro. Only Way To Tell Is To Check Lift At The Pushrod. Sux That I Cant Have Enough Confidence In Gm To Trust That They Sent The One With The Right Cam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03-13-2007, 06:08 AM
C9x

Are you running a vacuum advance distributor?

Pull the distributor vacuum line, plug it then shoot the timing.

Be aware you have to have the engine idling reasonably slow - 500 - 600 rpm so the centrifugal advance doesn't add any timing.
You're shooting for the initial timing point here.

Suppose you have 8 degrees initial timing BTDC.
With the vacuum line still disconnected run the engine up to 3000 rpm or so until the timing shows "all-in" at 34 degrees or so.
In other words as far as it will go with the centrifugal advance.
And . . . stay out of the plane of the fan blades, have one of them come loose and the injuries can be very severe.

Replace the distributor vacuum line while the engine is idling.
You should hear the rpm increase a bit, maybe 200 rpm or so.
Shoot the timing again.
You'll see quite a bit of advance on, maybe 24 - 34 degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center).
That is correct and GM engines need a lot of advance at idle or they'll overheat at idle or in traffic.

Wing the engine - just snap the throttle open a little ways for a quick rpm increase and release.
You only want to gain a few hundred rpm.
Watch the timing with a light and you'll see the vacuum advance back off and the centrifugal advance come up a little bit due to the rpm increase.
It's easy to tell the difference.

If you know where true TDC (Top Dead Center) is, one thing that will help is to install a timing tape on the harmonic balancer.
Clean the balancer well before the install or it'll come off in a short period of time.

You need a timing light to see what's going on, especially if you're somewhat new at this.
Timing with a vacuum gauge and by ear is only for very experienced people.
Even then, they can't tell if the centrifugal and vacuum advance mechanisms are working correctly.

Keep in mind that some dial-back timing lights will show about 20 degrees off if you're running an ignition amplifier like an MSD box.
Other dial-backs work fine.
In my case, I had a regular Sears Penske timing light and bought a Sears Penske dial-back timing light and there was a 20 degree disparity shown between the two.
I took the dial-back, back.

Like Dave says, 30 degrees retarded on cam timing -which is an entirely separate issue from ignition timing - and the engine won't run.

About 4 degrees is the max factory retardation on camshafts.
Performance cams are many times installed 4 degrees advanced.
07-07-2007, 09:31 PM
monzaxxx

12499529 crate motor problem SOLVED!!!

I bought one of the first engines off the line and had the exact problem. After months of diagnosis, I tore down the block and measured the cam against the prints GM faxed me and discovered the cam slot was ground ~ 30 degs out. After asking various gm parts managers, one confirmed that this was a small 'production problem' that was caused in production where a bad run of cams were installed. He knew of 20+ cases. They replaced the cam and lifters and it times up correctly.
07-08-2007, 05:02 AM
HemiTCoupe

We had ordered a 454 from GM and then bought the fly wheel from a different Gm dealer, after 8 months (they told us there was a piston shortage and had to wait for more) after we got it running it would shake bad, we popped the cam plug read the #'s, and the block #'s ...What the heck, They sent use a 427! Neither dealer would return the now used flywheel! Last parts we ever bought from those dealer. The 427 still worked good in the Vega :D

Pat