Turbo?

I've been tooling with the idea for awhile about a turbo on my el camino. I'm still working to get all of my parts finished up so that i can slide the motor together.

I guess I've got a few different options but I wanna get a good idea before i have my exhaust guy set it up.

1) Buy a new turbo kit
2) Buy a used turbo setup
3) I dunno about this one but I've heard its possible. Buy a diesel turbo and use it.

I'm pretty open as far as compression because I don't have a problem using 112 octane gasoline.

The motor that i'd be putting it on goes a little something like this:
4 bolt studded 400 SBC .030 over
Scat Cast Steel 3.5" stroke 400 main journal crank
6" 4340 Steel Rods
Probe forged & floated pistons
Cam: Doug Herbert PN: HERCCH2 Its 567"/567" lift, 242 @ .050" Solid roller
Full roller valve train
Right now I've got a set of 2.02/1.60 ground 76 cc chambered heads that came out of the El camino. Was thinking about having them shaved to bump the CR but if this motor becomes turbo powered, i might not have to.
Let me know what you guys think.

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Originally Posted by Hopper111

I've been tooling with the idea for awhile about a turbo on my el camino. I'm still working to get all of my parts finished up so that i can slide the motor together.

I guess I've got a few different options but I wanna get a good idea before i have my exhaust guy set it up.

1) Buy a new turbo kit
2) Buy a used turbo setup
3) I dunno about this one but I've heard its possible. Buy a diesel turbo and use it.

I'm pretty open as far as compression because I don't have a problem using 112 octane gasoline.

The motor that i'd be putting it on goes a little something like this:
4 bolt studded 400 SBC .030 over
Scat Cast Steel 3.5" stroke 400 main journal crank
6" 4340 Steel Rods
Probe forged & floated pistons
Cam: Doug Herbert PN: HERCCH2 Its 567"/567" lift, 242 @ .050" Solid roller
Full roller valve train
Right now I've got a set of 2.02/1.60 ground 76 cc chambered heads that came out of the El camino. Was thinking about having them shaved to bump the CR but if this motor becomes turbo powered, i might not have to.
Let me know what you guys think.

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I am un-sure about how much hp a cast steel crank will take.
What is the comp. ratio of those pistons with 76 cc heads?
What is the l/s of the cam?
Another idea would be use a "blow through " style supercharger.
Check out engine builder Morris and his blower ideas and then look at the hp levels in this months "Hot Rod" magizine.

the CR with this piston to head combo is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10.5:1 and the cam is on a 110 degree design.

I'm not really worried about the cast steel crank. I used one in an LT1 engine that we put a 9 lbs. super charger on it. It has been guessed that the engine puts out somewhere in the neighborhood of 650 HP and no problems.

Spend a couple of bucks and call these guys and talk with them. They can provide the blow-thru carb, bonnet and if they don't have the turbos, they can lead you to the right place to buy them. Whatever you do, don't start buying diesel turbos and other junk until you talk to them....
http://www.performancecarburetors.com/

You cannot use diesil turbos on a draw though operation, (carb in font of impeller) as the fuel will react with the seals giving a vacume and/or an oil leak. As tech says you need to do a LOT of reasearch before buying a turbo or turbo kit as it gets finiky and pernekity in a real hurry ! By this I mean reading impeler pressure maps and turbo A/R ratios.

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Originally Posted by Hopper111

the CR with this piston to head combo is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10.5:1 and the cam is on a 110 degree design.

I'm not really worried about the cast steel crank. I used one in an LT1 engine that we put a 9 lbs. super charger on it. It has been guessed that the engine puts out somewhere in the neighborhood of 650 HP and no problems.

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the compression is wayyy to high for a Turbo. you need to get down to 9.5 at the very least, but 8.5 would be best. also Diesel turbos are way too big. you may want to look into Barry Grants Turbo system for SBC's, it's expensive but gives you everything you need, and gains you MPFI.

Turbo's are designed as a system. Just tossing a bunch of leftovers together might not be the best method to build one. The quality systems also include a timing retard module. Tube length from the turbo to the carb is important too, shorter means less turbo lag. There is also a lot of technology incorporated into the design of the impeller, vanes, and an oiling system. Done wrong, it's a really easy way to gernade an engine.

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Turbo's are designed as a system. Just tossing a bunch of leftovers together might not be the best method to build one. The quality systems also include a timing retard module. Tube length from the turbo to the carb is important too, shorter means less turbo lag. There is also a lot of technology incorporated into the design of the impeller, vanes, and an oiling system. Done wrong, it's a really easy way to gernade an engine.

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Turbo's can be peiced togther cheaper than a kit but you have to know what you need, or you will find yourself overboosting from too small of a turbo ( wastegate cannot keep up ) or excessive lag from too large of a turbo. oiling system is pretty standard, turbo's don't need a lot of preassure, but the engine does. most oil feed lines have built in restrictors, to keep up the engine oil press. Timing is easilly fixed with an MSD 6 BTM which will retard the timing 1-3* per PSI of boost. I'v heavilly researched turbo's, because I'm putting the Turbo on My Falcon 200 I6. going to rebuild the engine for 8.3:1 comp. found an engine kit for $336 that includes everything from pistions to gaskets, everything needed including camshaft ( which I would dump for a slightly hotter camshaft ) oil pump ect... and a rebuilt 1980 EO casting head with 62cc chambers at $300. gonna do a .030 overbore to true everything up.

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Originally Posted by Matt167

Turbo's can be peiced togther cheaper than a kit but you have to know what you need, or you will find yourself overboosting from too small of a turbo ( wastegate cannot keep up ) or excessive lag from too large of a turbo. oiling system is pretty standard, turbo's don't need a lot of preassure, but the engine does. most oil feed lines have built in restrictors, to keep up the engine oil press. Timing is easilly fixed with an MSD 6 BTM which will retard the timing 1-3* per PSI of boost.

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I'm sure they can, but I've seen a whole lot more of them not work correctly then I have seen work correctly..... Theory and application are seperated by research, trial, and error......

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

I'm sure they can, but I've seen a whole lot more of them not work correctly then I have seen work correctly..... Theory and application are seperated by research, trial, and error......

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that's why I suggested Barry Grants system, twin turbo's with MPFI, as a kit, performance and drivability all in 1.

I wish there was a Turbo kit made today for 200 I6 fords. there were kits but they stopped making them around 1980 or so. AK Miller was 1 of the company's. I'm mimmiking a simple Turbo system for my 200. www.fordsix.com/forum provided me with most of the info. including modifying the Carter SBC fuel pump ( same opening size and bolt pattern ) with the Ford 6cyl pump rod, for a safe pump that takes boost refrence well. not to mention, working Turbocharged Small 6 buildups.

Many things appear simple and easy when they are designed.... The actual assembly and operation is where the proof comes in. Can't even began to tell you how many great ideas I have had that in actual application turned out to be far from ideal. The trial and error based on a solid design is what produces working combinations, or shows their inherent flaws. It's great to experiment and try new combinations, but trust me, they never go together quite as easy or work quite as well with the first turn of the key as they should.......

I'm thinking that maybe I should just spend 5-6 hundred dollars and set my car up for nitrous. I'm not seeing a way to bring my CR down to 8.5 because All of my machine work is already done. The only thing that could vary is head gasket thickness, and i don't know if i could get 2 points worth of compression out of that. But with nitrous, I can set it up on a WOT switch so that it will work when the motor needs it the most (kinda like a turbo) Plus, I won't have to spend 3000 dollars to get that extra boost that i need. Thank you guys for all your info, I really appreciate you guys keeping me from making a stupid. I should have made provisions for turbo/blower before i had all of the permanent work done just in case I decided to do it.

Btw, I'm wanting to squeeze about 100 HP worth of nitrous into this motor. I know 100 isn't really a lot but I want to have at least some kind of balance between longevity and durability. Based off of what I've told you about my motor, do you think 100HP shot is realistic? Could it go more w/o hurting it? Is 100HP shot too much? I tried to pick a camshaft that would be ground thundering with some kind of boost on it (whether it be nitrous, blower, or turbo)

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Many things appear simple and easy when they are designed.... The actual assembly and operation is where the proof comes in. Can't even began to tell you how many great ideas I have had that in actual application turned out to be far from ideal. The trial and error based on a solid design is what produces working combinations, or shows their inherent flaws. It's great to experiment and try new combinations, but trust me, they never go together quite as easy or work quite as well with the first turn of the key as they should.......

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This is all true. but with my 200 I6, there are a number of people who have arleady turbocharged the 144-250's and gone through this. If you look up on google Will and Kelly's Falcon, you will come up with a Mustangs and Fords Article on a turbocharged 250 in the Falcon ( a '63 ) running in the 12's, that is an old setup now, they have since had the car at 11.75, and they changed the setup again, using an OZ 250 head ( approx 100% better flowing ) but there going to change over to a better head than that, which is the Ford Six Aluminum head. Will and Kelly are both on www.fordsix.com/forum.

Most of the problems that occour with budget turbocharging is too big or small of a Turbo, putting that Diesel Turbo on a 4cyl, that 2.2 L Mitsu turbo on a 350. it can be done saftly and effectively if 1 learns to read a compressor map, because that tells you if it's correctly sized for the engine.

then I'm sure it will be just perfect....

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

then I'm sure it will be just perfect....

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In a few months, it should be done, engine rebuilt, turbo on, and running. can only hope it's perfect. it's probably gonna have bugs to work out, but I hope nothing major.:) I just re read what you originally said, as they never work quite as well with the first turn of the key as they should, and this I DO agree with, there are always bugs to figure out, I don't think anything custom on an engine is out of the box, no tuning required. It was early this morning when I replied ( 6:30 ) and missed that whole sentence. :)

based off of the specs that i have listed in this post, how much nitrous do you guys think i could shoot before i started causing damage?

Nitrous does not cause damage if tuned correctly, at least that's what the company's selling the kits lead you to belive. a lot of people run a seperate fuel supply over 150 HP. depends on your pistion construction

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Originally Posted by Hopper111

based off of the specs that i have listed in this post, how much nitrous do you guys think i could shoot before i started causing damage?

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200 hp shot..