Oil priming question

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08-20-2006, 05:04 PM
59belaircopcar

Oil priming question

I just got the correct lifters in my 283 rebuild and thought I'd prime the engine at this point (I have a DVD on rebuilding SBC's). On the video, the guy had a distributor with the gear and such removed so he could mount it and spin the shaft with a pair of vise-grips. Any way within four or five turns he had oil coming out the lifters. He then turned the crank a bit and kept turning the dist. to work the air out.
I don't have a stripped down dist. so I used a big flat blade screw driver. I turned it clockwise about 20 revolutions and only got oil out of a few of the lifters. I didn't think much about it (figured It just needs to spin faster) So I put in the push rods and rockers and adjusted them. Then I thought more about it and wanted to prime the engine properly so I used a speed wrench with a big flat head on it. Now I turned it fairly briskly for a few minutes. No oil is coming out of the top of the push rods. Should it be? BTW it's a new Melling High volume oil pump with a new strainer. Block was tanked, and preassembled with new cam bearings and plugs at a machine shop. Oil did squirt out of the oil pressure gage plug hole with the screw driver turns (oil hit the floor before I realized I forgot to plug it). Should I see oil coming to the top of all the push rods? Could I have forgotten something?
08-20-2006, 05:07 PM
59belaircopcar

2 Attachment(s)

Here's some pics
08-20-2006, 05:12 PM
1JohnnyO

Yes, you should see oil coming out of the pushrods. You wont get that with just a screwdriver type of primer. You have the proper type of primer. Power it with a 3/8" drill, and run it for several minutes. Lots of guys make the primers out of an old distributor, but personally, I would rather spend a few bucks and get one already done. They aren't very expensive. Just wondering, why did you use a high volume pump? It seems like over half the people rebuilding engines end up putting in a high volume pump, when they really aren't needed. I was wondering if it was your choice, or was it suggested to you by someone else? John
08-20-2006, 05:27 PM
Henry Rifle

Summit has one for $16.95. I'll bet your local parts store has one too.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
08-20-2006, 05:51 PM
59belaircopcar

Thanks guys! That makes perfect sense! I've been very careful putting everything together on this engine. It's a lot of fun :D
When I did not get the oil coming out of the lifters I couldn't understand what could be wrong. Now I've learned something...Thanks!
I went with a high volume oil pump for no other reason then..."what the heck". I did do some research and do NOW realize that in my application I certainly do not need the high volume pump. To be honest if I had to do it over I would have bought a standard pump and saved $20. I did learn that the high volume won't hurt anything so "what the heck". I copied a link from Melling on the subject...
http://www.melling.com/support/bulle...lletin-3rd.htm
08-20-2006, 05:59 PM
59belaircopcar

I was surprised there is no gasket between the pump and the block. The machining is very true but it just seems odd (to me anyway -of course I'm not a machinist).
I guess I can answer my own question on the clip your talking about Denny.
My question would have been...Why do guys tack weld the screen on? That screen went in super tight. I was afraid I was going to break the pump banging it on. I suppose the answer is...Why take chances of the screen vibrating loose over time:LOL: Am I right?
08-20-2006, 06:21 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyW

Sorry 1JohnnyO, not trying to argue, but I have primed many with just a speedo wrench. You should get oil out very quickly, not several minutes. You will know right away if your going to have pressure, cause it will almost stop you when oil fills that pump, and you go against the restriction of all the clearances.

Oil pumps will always be under debate. Nothing wrong with a HighVolume oil pump, providing you do not over size the oil feed holes, and you don't go like a big block oil pump for a small block.

High volume simply means the supply is more than you need to draw from.:)

Denny,most of them time I will agree with what you say but not on the hi-volume oil pump.
If you use a high volume oil pump on a stock 5- qt. pan you will suck the pan dry if the engine is run at hi rpm's for an extended amount of time.
I would use a stock pump with a hi-pressure spring instead.
08-20-2006, 06:54 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyW

So, my engine should have blown up by now ??

I have built many, and no problem if you do it correctly. The high pressure will be there if you have your bearing clearances correct. Man, I don't get it. I do actually build engines. :LOL: :LOL:

I am saying that with a 5 qt. pan and a hi volume pump you are sucking so much oil out of the bottom of the pan and under hard acceleration or hi rpm's.Another thing to think about is the extra load placed upon the dist.,gear etc. trying to turn the hi-volume pump.
Also where is the extra oil going to go?
It is also limited by the other oil passages in the engine.
If you don't mod. the oil passages "up-stream" what is the point?
A hi-volume pump is not required for any stocker style re-build.
I would never run a hi-volume pump un-less I had a 7+ qt. oil pan with all the baffles and trap doors in place.
In a 5 qt. pan how many qts. of oil do you think are in the bottom of the pan when he is turning 5,000 rpm's with a hi-volume pump?
How many qts. are trying to be pushed to the valve train and other oil- galley's?
P.S. Denny no one said you don't build engines.
08-20-2006, 06:56 PM
dcoffield

I just ran into a similar problem, couldn't get oil to prime the lifters. Using an old distributor with the teeth ground off the gear. Found the rear cam bearing wasn't inserted far enough. It didn't cover the oil grove and all the pressure was exiting around the end of the cam, through the end holes.
08-20-2006, 07:43 PM
techinspector1

Kevin, thanks for the tutorial from Melling. They have built a few more engines than I have I'm sure :)

Follow Denny's advice and install a paper gasket between the pump and block. Those surfaces aren't as true as you might think.

The distance the oil pickup sits off the bottom of the pan is determined by where and how you twisted and banged the pickup tube into the pump body. With the pan off and the motor sitting pump-up, make a small cone of clay, place it on the pickup and gently position the oil pan down on the motor. The height of the clay will tell you the position of the pickup in relation to the bottom of the pan. Shoot for 1/4" to 3/8". Twist the tube in the pump body to adjust the clearance.

Something else I always do before bolting the pan on is to epoxy a couple of strong magnets to the bottom of the pan. I get them at Radio Shack. They won't collect aluminum, tin and antimony from the bearings, but they will collect the bits of ferrous metals that will do the damage to other parts.
08-20-2006, 08:01 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyW

Everything you posted will happen with a stock pump. You think increasing the pressure has no effect ?? The purpose of the high volume is not to dump twice the oil. It's purpose is to provide 20% more oil available.

I don't mean in a race motor. We could talk days about that. What kind of oil pressure do you think them guys run ? If you check, you will find anywhere from 90-120 lbs. I wonder why ? Yes, they have more oil capacity, but all that increase, they need it. A street motor built for the street, if done properly, will npt have a problem with a high volume pump. I don't care what is said on that. I know that for a fact. This always seems to go in circles.

I have a high pressure, high volume oil pump on mine, 5 quart pan. I have held it well over 120 for extended amounts of time, and never ran out of oil. Are my drains blue printed, you bet. The whole engine is, by me.

Theres 6 chevy motors still out there running great that I built before I got out of the shop. I meet those guys about once a month at the donut shop. No problems, or believe me, I would hear it. :LOL: :LOL:

Like I said before.Why put all the exta wear and tear on the dist.,gear,etc??
I don't know of anyone that runs 90-120 of oil pressure in a race motor anymore.Maybe at "cold" start up.
At these pressure's it will tend to push any dirt that might get by the filter right into the soft babbit material.
You mention "your drains" are "blue-printed" do you really think the guy with the 283 "blue-printed" is drains?I highly doubt it.
Like you said we can talk about this all night.
I had the same ideas you have up until about 3-4 years ago and at that point and time I would have agreed with you 100%
In the last few years I have changed my thinking a lot.
I hope I did not up-set you with what I said because I respect you and what you have to say on this forum.