Piston ring installation??

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08-11-2006, 08:37 PM
59belaircopcar

Piston ring installation??

Hey,
I am putting a sbc 283 back together and have a question installing the new ring set. They are made by HI-TECH engine components. The box is laid out in three compartments...top rings, second rings and oil rings. There is no documentation as to what ring is the top and which is the second. The only information provided is a generic description of what side goes up (no dots and no bevel -either way, dots face up, bevel down etc).
One compartment of rings has a dot on them so I know the dot goes up but in which groove? The other ring does not appear to have any dots or bevels.
On the box they mention (in a marketing way... not a technical way) that the top (compression ring) has a convex face and the second ring has a trailing taper. I can't distinguish these attributes on either set of rings. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Kevin
08-13-2006, 05:12 PM
59belaircopcar

:confused: Wow! I figured with the experiance and knowledge in this Forum, someone would be able to help me out.
Oh well...I will call HI-TECH tomorrow and speak to their tech department. I just thought I'd give this group a shot so I could get the bottom end built over the weekend.

Thanks,
Kevin
08-13-2006, 05:15 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59belaircopcar

Hey,
I am putting a sbc 283 back together and have a question installing the new ring set. They are made by HI-TECH engine components. The box is laid out in three compartments...top rings, second rings and oil rings. There is no documentation as to what ring is the top and which is the second. The only information provided is a generic description of what side goes up (no dots and no bevel -either way, dots face up, bevel down etc).
One compartment of rings has a dot on them so I know the dot goes up but in which groove? The other ring does not appear to have any dots or bevels.
On the box they mention (in a marketing way... not a technical way) that the top (compression ring) has a convex face and the second ring has a trailing taper. I can't distinguish these attributes on either set of rings. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Kevin

Buy name brand parts next time.
Build it right the first time.Why take chances?
08-13-2006, 05:18 PM
Itoldyouso

I ran into this when I put the 394 Olds together for my '39 Dodge. Finally figured out both top and 2nd rings were identical, so it didn't matter. Don't know specifically if that is what you have, but look at them very closely and you should be able to tell.

Directions on these things are very vague anymore, I agree.

Don
08-13-2006, 05:43 PM
chevydrivin

From what you said I would have put the ring with dots on the first groove with dots up and the second ring on second groove which ever way you want if there is no bevel or dot.
08-13-2006, 05:59 PM
Skeeter

Quote:

Originally Posted by erik erikson

Buy name brand parts next time.
Build it right the first time.Why take chances?

Hmmmm...looks like a fairly reputable "name brand" to me.
Thanks for the help.:cool:

"Hi-Tech engine components is home based in Salt Lake City Utah and has been established for over 30 years, Hi-Tech Engine produces award winning high quality automotive aftermarket engine parts, cylinder heads, engine kits, crankshaft kits and nearly 17,000 engine overhaul kits for gas and diesel engines. Component coverage includes all of the internal engine parts, cam & lifter kits, plus unique Torklink™ intake racing manifolds and patented Swirl/Quench™ piston technology. And our line of quality stock replacement and high performance crate engines are available for auto, truck and marine applications. Hi-Tech Engine components have won the honorary supplier of the year award from J.D. power associates three years in a row. We don't strive to compete, we strive to BEAT."
08-13-2006, 06:04 PM
59belaircopcar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I ran into this when I put the 394 Olds together for my '39 Dodge. Finally figured out both top and 2nd rings were identical, so it didn't matter. Don't know specifically if that is what you have, but look at them very closely and you should be able to tell.

Directions on these things are very vague anymore, I agree.

Don

Hi Don,
They are identical thickness and circumference but the one set has a dot and a bevel. The other ring does not have any markings.

Kevin
08-13-2006, 06:07 PM
59belaircopcar

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevydrivin

From what you said I would have put the ring with dots on the first groove with dots up and the second ring on second groove which ever way you want if there is no bevel or dot.

I was thinking the same thing. Just wanted to confirm. I'll give the tech department a holler tomorrow morning. I'll post what they tell me so if someone else runs into this predicament they will have an answer.
Thanks,
Kevin
08-13-2006, 06:08 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeeter

Hmmmm...looks like a fairly reputable "name brand" to me.
Thanks for the help.:cool:

"Hi-Tech engine components is home based in Salt Lake City Utah and has been established for over 30 years, Hi-Tech Engine produces award winning high quality automotive aftermarket engine parts, cylinder heads, engine kits, crankshaft kits and nearly 17,000 engine overhaul kits for gas and diesel engines. Component coverage includes all of the internal engine parts, cam & lifter kits, plus unique Torklink™ intake racing manifolds and patented Swirl/Quench™ piston technology. And our line of quality stock replacement and high performance crate engines are available for auto, truck and marine applications. Hi-Tech Engine components have won the honorary supplier of the year award from J.D. power associates three years in a row. We don't strive to compete, we strive to BEAT."

Does J.D. power and associates build engines?The answer is no.
I have built engines for over 20 yrs. and I would never run crap like that.
One more question when was the last time they where in the winners circle?
The next USMTS engine I build I will make sure I ask for HI-Tech engine components.I think not.
Please don't always believe what you read.Anyone can market crap.
Why do they call you Skeeter?Hmmmm:whacked:
08-13-2006, 06:10 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeeter

Hmmmm...looks like a fairly reputable "name brand" to me.
Thanks for the help.:cool:

"Hi-Tech engine components is home based in Salt Lake City Utah and has been established for over 30 years, Hi-Tech Engine produces award winning high quality automotive aftermarket engine parts, cylinder heads, engine kits, crankshaft kits and nearly 17,000 engine overhaul kits for gas and diesel engines. Component coverage includes all of the internal engine parts, cam & lifter kits, plus unique Torklink™ intake racing manifolds and patented Swirl/Quench™ piston technology. And our line of quality stock replacement and high performance crate engines are available for auto, truck and marine applications. Hi-Tech Engine components have won the honorary supplier of the year award from J.D. power associates three years in a row. We don't strive to compete, we strive to BEAT."

Very well written ad copy. JC Whitney probably been in business twice that long, but it doesn't ensure high quality, just cheap prices. You usually get what you pay for....... Do the generic direction address the issue of end gap at all??????
08-13-2006, 06:14 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Very well written ad copy. JC Whitney probably been in business twice that long, but it doesn't ensure high quality, just cheap prices. You usually get what you pay for....... Do the generic direction address the issue of end gap at all??????

Dave,do you have the cars ready for nationals?
08-13-2006, 06:18 PM
59belaircopcar

Quote:

Originally Posted by erik erikson

Buy name brand parts next time.
Build it right the first time.Why take chances?

Eric,
I've been around only a few engine rebuilds (litterally...just a few...4 or 5) So I have to admit I don't know what the best name brands are. I will say, I rebuilt a 6.9 diesel two years ago and got a "CRANE" cam that was missing the #4 cylinder exhaust lobe! Yep, just a nice shiny lobe less circle. Of course they took it back and said it was a defect but so much for name brand that day:o
I picked up the rings from NAPA. I have not installed them yet...do you recommend I return them and if so what should I get?

Thanks,
Kevin
08-13-2006, 06:18 PM
Dave Severson

Looks like we'll be spectating, bought a different car, will email you the details later...... But still plan on being in Boone!!!!!
08-13-2006, 06:26 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59belaircopcar

Eric,
I've been around only a few engine rebuilds (litterally...just a few...4 or 5) So I have to admit I don't know what the best name brands are. I will say, I rebuilt a 6.9 diesel two years ago and got a "CRANE" cam that was missing the #4 cylinder exhaust lobe! Yep, just a nice shiny lobe less circle. Of course they took it back and said it was a defect but so much for name brand that day:o
I picked up the rings from NAPA. I have not installed them yet...do you recommend I return them and if so what should I get?

Thanks,
Kevin

First, I need to say I am sorry for being a smart ass.I would try a Sealed Power moly ring for what you are doing.If you look around you should be able to find them for $45-50 a set.
Make sure you tell your machinist that you are planning on running moly rings that way he can put the correct finish on the cylinder walls.
08-13-2006, 06:28 PM
Dave Severson

Many of the generic ring sets also come with an end gap you could measure with a yard stick as compared to the quality sets........ The generic stuff is great for rebuilders, when doing a performance engine the extra bucks are usually worth it...
08-13-2006, 06:47 PM
chevydrivin

Never heard of HI TECH! Always used TRW, perfect circle or sealed power.
08-13-2006, 07:10 PM
59belaircopcar

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyW

Sorry, some of us weren't on the answer me quick clock.

You stated that they were in there own compartment. That narrows it down. Top, means top ring. Second means second groove ring, and so on. Now, what way is correct for installation ? We have no idea on what type, or brand your ring set is. Aren't they all the same you might ask ? The answer is no. So, since you didn't get it together, maybe you could be a little more specific on your info, and give us a hint to the brand, and describe what is, and how the rings are shaped as you look at the end gap of the ring ?

ps: Thumbs down is a bad sign by the way.

Man your tuff. Look sparky, If I was your kid I'd say sorry for the thumbs down Daddy. But being I'm not! Go tell someone else about what you think of their signs (thumbs down). "Sorry, some of us weren't on the answer me quick clock." Should I tell you that's not nice either?
I said they were in their own compartments. I didn't say they were labeled Top and second. There's only two compression rings. Half are in one section of the box and half are in another. If they said Top and second why would I have posted. " give us a hint to the brand" I'm confused again I thought I said HI-TECH was the brand....Any way, obviously we got off in a bad way so I'm sure you will not want to communicate with me and I don't expect any help from you. Almost 7000 posts It would have been nice to learn from your experience but I'd just assume learn from someone that doesn't need to take shots at people with less experience.
BTW Don't take the thumbs down personally- it was meant towards the ring manufacturer but then again you didn't read my post properly so why would you read the sign properly. One last thing as long as we're taking shots. You should speak for YOURSELF. Throughout your whole post you always use the words "US" and "WE". Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
Take care,
My loss,
Kevin
08-13-2006, 07:14 PM
59belaircopcar

Quote:

Originally Posted by erik erikson

First, I need to say I am sorry for being a smart ass.I would try a Sealed Power moly ring for what you are doing.If you look around you should be able to find them for $45-50 a set.
Make sure you tell your machinist that you are planning on running moly rings that way he can put the correct finish on the cylinder walls.

:) No problem erik... Thanks for the advice. I think I'll return the HI-TECH rings and go with your suggestion. I'll get an answer from Hi-Tech and post it anyway in case someone else ends up with the HI-TECHS.

-Kevin
08-13-2006, 07:32 PM
chevydrivin

Simma Don Na
Simmmmma Dannnnn Naaaa
I Said Simmmmmma Dannnnnnn Na
08-13-2006, 07:51 PM
erik erikson

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59belaircopcar

Man your tuff. Look sparky, If I was your kid I'd say sorry for the thumbs down Daddy. But being I'm not! Go tell someone else about what you think of their signs (thumbs down). "Sorry, some of us weren't on the answer me quick clock." Should I tell you that's not nice either?
I said they were in their own compartments. I didn't say they were labeled Top and second. There's only two compression rings. Half are in one section of the box and half are in another. If they said Top and second why would I have posted. " give us a hint to the brand" I'm confused again I thought I said HI-TECH was the brand....Any way, obviously we got off in a bad way so I'm sure you will not want to communicate with me and I don't expect any help from you. Almost 7000 posts It would have been nice to learn from your experience but I'd just assume learn from someone that doesn't need to take shots at people with less experience.
BTW Don't take the thumbs down personally- it was meant towards the ring manufacturer but then again you didn't read my post properly so why would you read the sign properly. One last thing as long as we're taking shots. You should speak for YOURSELF. Throughout your whole post you always use the words "US" and "WE". Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
Take care,
My loss,
Kevin

Kevin,I think you might of jumped to conclusions about Denny.I think he will still try and help you as much as he can.
We don't always agree with things.
I respect most of these guys on here because they have built cars and raced cars for a long time.
One thing to remember is "There is more then one way to skin a cat".
08-13-2006, 08:24 PM
59belaircopcar

Quote:

Originally Posted by erik erikson

Kevin,I think you might of jumped to conclusions about Denny.I think he will still try and help you as much as he can.
We don't always agree with things.
I respect most of these guys on here because they have built cars and raced cars for a long time.
One thing to remember is "There is more then one way to skin a cat".

Thanks erik, I'm new to the forum and that didn't start out so well. Actually my son became a member because I had this question. He'll take it from here on out. He's big into hotrods and has a beautiful 59 Belair. At my age my skin is not thick enough for sarcasim. I'm just a retired old crop duster pilot (34 years) and like to play around with mechanical things. I'm sure Denny is a bright guy and knows his stuff, like I said "my loss". I'm just going to return the HI-TECH rings and go with your suggestion. Then I'm done with putting myself in the line of fire. Hopefully my son doesn't kill me after he sees this thread.
Take care and thanks,
Kevin
08-14-2006, 10:57 AM
thesals

i actually used a Hi-tech kit for a re-ring on my 91 240sx... car has never given me any problems since i built it and its had about 100,000 put on it since then.... i believe they mainly specialize in asian imports so i dont really know about their american products
08-14-2006, 07:40 PM
lt1s10

I must be dead !!!!! don't feel the urge to get in on that. :confused: :mad: :LOL:
08-14-2006, 07:49 PM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyW

:LOL: :LOL: It's ok Mike. He won't talk to me N E Way. :LOL:

I'm going to go play with the dog, don't have any mice. :LOL:

good idea !! maybe she won't bite you. :cool: :LOL:

glade to see Erik is back. :cool:
08-15-2006, 09:04 AM
59belaircopcar

All,
Just read through this post...That was interesting:LOL: :LOL: . I just got back from overseas and spoke to my old man. He pointed me to the post. What can I say. Looks like eveybody had a point. He never did take any crap:) . This forum thing isn't for him anyway. He's 74 years old and likes the ways of the old school:D I knew he'd tear into Denny with the "WE" and "US" stuff :LOL: :LOL: That's always been a big thing of his. Stand with others but always Speak for yourself. :LOL:
Anyway thanks for everybody's help! He called HI-TECH and the way it goes is the set of rings with the dot is TOP ring with dot facing up. The unmarked, unbeveled ring is the second groove and can be installed either way. Pop is done house sitting and left for home last night.
Thanks again,
Kevin Jr.
08-15-2006, 09:18 AM
Skeeter

We just got an e-mail back from hitech. They confirmed what 59belaircopcar said. We are happy that this Thread is over. :LOL:

We recommend you pay attention to the ring gap, especially being the rings are no brand. You insert the ring into the cylinder and check the gap with a feeler gage. If to tight you can file the ends - too big and you have a problem.

I'm just one person but I'm speaking for the entire club :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

You guys are great!

Skeeter
08-15-2006, 09:28 AM
lt1s10

1 Attachment(s)

[quote=DennyW]I, we, us, might add that .0035 per inch ring end gap is a good setting.:LOL: :LOL: Now where did that mouse go. :LOL: :LOL:

you looking for me???
08-15-2006, 09:41 AM
lt1s10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennyW

There you are !!! Get over here !! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

not today, to hot for me. :HMMM: :LOL: :LOL: