Cam Selection, have specs.

Well, as much as I hate to do it, I need some Cam help.
This cam is for my 350 that I am dropping into my '70 Nova pretty soon here. Already have the longblock, heads, and other parts, down to Cam/lifter/pushrod selection. I know you guys want to see specs before pointing a cam out, so here are the parts it's going to be working with:

Car:
70 Nova
Kitted TH350
Small (stock?) converter
2.73 gears (for at least another month)

Other Valvetrain:
Dart Iron Eagles
2.02 / 1.60 Valves
72cc Chambers
185cc Intake ports
Comp Cams 995 double springs (1.700" installed height, 1.050 bind height, Max lift ~.600", 441 Spring rate, with dampening)
Comp Cams 4808 Guideplates
Summit 1.5:1 roller-tip rockers (non self aligning)

Other motor:
350 Ci Block, 23* valve relief pistons, standard ~.035" deck height
RPM Air Gap intake
Edelbrock 700CFM carb
Accel Blueprint distributor
1 5/8" Primary long-tube headers.

Any idea for a cam to run in this? I want a halfway decent idle, certainly don't mind a bit of chop though. Mostly for street use, especially until I get a 3.43 rear end, and a stall, at which point I may recam this motor. So, pretty much, what will give me the best street performance? Looking at a quench figure of about .075" (yuck), so keep that in mind.

Also, should I use the stock 7.800" Pushrods with this motor? Thanks alot.
I appreciate the help, getting this whole valvetrain thing down one piece at a time.

-Rob

This isnt meant to be a smart answer, but why do you have springs if you dont have a cam?? They pretty much have to be matched to one another. I will let the small block guys answer the rest of it...Im not quite as up on the small block stuff. I can tell you this, dont go overboard...that's the most common mistake. A smaller cam will give you much better performance, especially on the street. You wont be happy with a big one. John

Got the heads from a local machine shop where they were machined with the springs and guideplates preinstalled.

I know, I've learned my lesson on overcamming on friends cars, and on one of my own projects. I'm not brainwashed with the 'bigger is better' way of thinking. Got that much :)

-Rob

.....I ran your combo in my Desk Top Dyno; 350, Dart 180 Iron Eagles 2.02 & 1.6's 72cc, 1.5 rockers, to get your compression ratio I used; flat top pistons, 0 valve releaf volume, .040 head gaskets, .075 quench, 72cc heads & came up w/ around a 8:5 to 1 compression. 600 carb w/ a high torque dual plane manafold, small headers w/ mufflers. And 5 different cams all of them the Comp Cams Xtreme Energy, Hyd Flat Tappet.

1. XE-250H, #12-230-2, duration 206/212 @ 1/2", .432/.444 lift. It put out 413 Tq @ 3500 & 346 Hp @ 5200.....

2. XE-256H, #12-234-2, duration 212/218 @ 1/2", .447/.454 lift. This put out 411 @ 3500 & 363 Hp @ 5500.....

3. XE-262H, #12-238-2, duration 218/224 @ 1/2", .462/.469 lift. Put out 412 Tq @ 4000 & 373 Hp @ 5500....

4. & 5. Cam #4 that I ran was the largest that was recommended for a stock converter but a 2000 stall was suggested {not sure WHAT the difference is between 'recommended' & 'suggested'???}.... Anyway this cam did 406 Tq @ 4000 & 384 Hp @5500. BUT the TQ was only 355 @ 2000 where as the first 3 cams were; 389, 379 & 371 @ 2000.... I would not use #4 because of this. Cam # 5 was just plain old 'way to big'.....

I also would not use #1 as it fell on it's face between 4500 & 5000. I'd go with # 2 but #3 would work.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION THOUGH!!!

It's not that I'm all that knowledgeable, I just have a Desk Top Dyno!!!! Call Comp Cams and ask them & let me know what they advise. I called them a couple of weeks ago for a recommendation & went one size smaller...... hope this helps ya, Bill

First off, let me say this:
Bill, thanks for your time so far, I really appreciate it. I too have been running some different cam options through Desktop Dyno and getting similar results. When you say 1/2", you mean fifty-thousandths (.050"), right?

I called Comp Cams, and a hurried-sounding tech advisor half-listened to the specifications I painstakingly prepared for him and spit out:
"Yea, yea. Uhh, why don't you go with the 12-238-2. Should be fine."
"Alright. Will the provide a decent idle, and good street power for my application?"
"Uh huh."
"Great." *click*

Looking into this cam, it's specs are:
Duration: 218* int / 224* exh
lift: .462" int / .469" exh
110* LSA

Desktop Dyno says that it will be worth 382 Fly HP at 5,500RPM.
Somehow I don't buy that :)
I am gonna look into your specs a little, and see if one of these will work better for my application, thanks again for digging these up.

Cam Breakin Question!
Comp cams specifies that for a double spring application, to remove the inner spring during break in. Like it's as simple as yanking out a spark plug.

Does this mean I have to break in the cam, pull the valvetrain apart, install the inner springs, and pop for new seals, doing all of this with the motor in the car for break-in purposes? Jeez, what a headache!

I guess a 70' Nova is out of warranty though :)
-Rob

...hey Rob, yes by 1/2" I meant .050 {when I type I know where the all the keys are to type 1/2" w/o looking. To find the '5' & the '0' keys I have to look, so it's easier.....}. Ok, so you have a Desk Top Dyno also. I just got mine a couple of weeks ago. There fun to play with, huh??? Anyway, it looks like Comp Cams recommended the #3 cam that I mentioned. When I called I talked to Matt he was great on the phone. In fact, since Summit, Jeg's and SD Chev were all out of the cam I wanted, I just ordered it right from Comp. {I called Comp 3 times & one of those times the guy I talked to was sort of 'in a hurry', may be it was break time??? But once I talked to Matt I just asked for him everytime. So you might ask for him if/when you call back}. Oh I got a 4/7 cam which reverses the number 4 & 7 in firing order sequence. They say it gives you a flatter Tq curve & the engine runs smoother & cooler. They can grind this on any cam. I saw where Comp also has a 'Cam pick' program that's available for $35 bucks. I thought about getting it but then I had to do something quick as the guy is already working on my motor.
LOL @ '70 Nova is out of warrentee! .;.... In fact I bought a '69 Nova that had the FULL factory warreentee once. Now that's good & bad. The good part was the warreenttee {although it & the car are l-o-n-g gone}. The bad part is that you've got to be in your 50's to have done this :(...
All I know about break in is Comp told me to have my engine builder pull the 2nd spring for break in. In fact do I EVEN have 2 springs per valve??? I'd better go ask some 'valve spring' questions..... But I belive pulling the spring is only for the Extreem Energy cams.
Yes I also wonder about what the Desk Top has said my motor will put out. I HOPE it's right! They say it's to within 5% +/-.... Plus would be nice, huh???
And just remember to think TORQUE! more than hp..... Look at the Tq. @ 2000, 2500, 3000, 4000, 4500, 5000 RPM's. The largest cam that I ran for you put out 384 Hp @ 5500 but only 340 Ft. Lb's of TQ. @ 2000. The smallest cam only put out 346 Hp @ 5000 but it did 389 Ft. Lb's at 2000. Torque is what will make your car fast on the street ESPECIALLY with a stock converter......
have a good week end ;) Bill

Well, like they say,
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall,
Torque is how far you take it with you.

Anyways, I think I'll go with the #2 cam, nice torque curve to match the horsepower.

I'll let you all know how it goes just as soon as I start her up.

Any other ideas for the valvespring removal would be cool also :)

Thanks again,
-Rob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SBC Maro

Well, like they say,
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall,
Torque is how far you take it with you.

Anyways, I think I'll go with the #2 cam, nice torque curve to match the horsepower.

I'll let you all know how it goes just as soon as I start her up.

Any other ideas for the valvespring removal would be cool also :)

Thanks again,
-Rob

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.....good quote, how far you take the wall with you.... ;) Yeah, #2 is a good choice. I know I went one under what Comp recommended to me. I DON'T want to have to buy another Tq converter! Yeah, I'll ask my engine guy r/e about the valvespring removal. I'm sure he's not going to be to happy. He recommened AGAINST me using the Comp Xtreem Energy cam & I thing THIS is why! He probably already knew r/e the spring thing....... Hey your in Lompoc, were're neighbors. I'm in Ojai, Ventura County....
Bill

Yummy! Lompoc=Anderson's. Best pea soup on the planet. Anderson boys used to run a flathead rail. Wasn't as good as the food, though.

Oldman2

Heh, Yup. Got us zeroed in :)
'bout 20 miles east to Buellton, if you wanna get all technical.

I might not go with a Comp Cams perse, but any cam with similar specs.

Any good muscle car meets in the area? You'd think so, being Sunny California and all :)

Thanks,
-Rob

Rob....sounds like those cam specs will work well for you.. Now, I'll admit Im not a comp cams fan at all.. It's mostly customer service, and tech advice like you described above. Before you order anything, at least make a call to Lunati Cams and speak with Steve... Check on the Lunati/Ultradyne cams, and especially the newer Vodoo series. They will make more power than the Comp lines, and will be easier on the valves also. Try it, I think you'll be happy. And removing the inner spring (if you have one!!) depends on the cam specs. Check with the cam tech on that. Follow their advice on springs and break-in, at least that way, if you should trash the cam, you can say you did everything you were supposed to. John

Hey, thanks for the advice.

Just waiting on the parts now, gettin' all pumped for it, hah.

Next on the list: Finding longtubes that will work on a 70 Nova with Angle Plug heads and Power Steering :3dSMILE:

And removing the inner spring (if you have one!!) depends on the cam specs.

I disagree and suggest that it all depends on the springs used. Most all flat tappet cams are ground from the same material and will all suffer the same fate if there is too much pressure applied to the lobes. The only time I wouldn't mess with the springs for break-in is if I were using stock single springs with damper. That's just my opinion.

Ok,
Darn. Looks like I'll have to do that then. Wasn't looking forward to it, but I guess that it's the price to pay.

Time to get / rent a spring compressor.

Hey, im running quite the same setup in my car. I drive it every day....although it is a 4-speed.... i bought a Lunati Voodoo 60102 and it is just awesome. Not sure it would work with your tq converter but i definitely would say maybe look into a part number down from that one or something. Tech support was awesome as well.