To Be Big or Not to be Big?

Ok, it's been awhile since i last posted up on here...been very busy at work.

Since my last post, I've bought and paid for a 1972 El Camino.

I've rebuilt the TH350 Trans. I put a shift kit in it, along with various other "this and thats" to make it handle power.

I'm ordering $300 worth of tires next weekend to go on the factory rally wheels (yes it has factory from 1972) Along with $150 worth of sheetmetal for the floor, carpet, insulation, and a new battery.

Next, along with my tires, im replacing brakes, wheel cylinders, and having rotors resurfaced.

P.S. The current motor is a SBC 350 with 80,000 original miles, it does run and drive. With no problems smoking the tires.

Now that my update is out of the way. Here's my dilema. Do I build a hot, thundering SBC 350, or should i build a nice, mild, just-above-stock BBC?

Im going to drive this everyday so gas is a factory but i want to have fun as well...I guess im asking for help to find the happy medium between power and economy. Thanks for any advice and information!

Hey Hopper, dilemmas!! I love those sort of problems. I would go sbc stroker. If you are at all concerned with fuel economy, remember, the bigger the cubes, the thirstier they get,... they just need more fuel.

It may be too late, but a 700R4 would have been nice, just because of the O.D. The lower the rpm while cruising, the better for fuel economy. Another added feature with this tranny is the wonderful low first gear, 3.06. The first/second gear ratios are a natural punch off to highway speeds, which is where most of our rodding is done anyways. Hey, have fun!

Yea, its not too late for a 700R4 as i am not paying people to build my car for me, i'm building it 100% by myself. I already have a 700R4 case that is ready to have guts stuffed into it, i just haven't decided yet, I can build a good stout production type 700R4 but i'd have to read up a bit for the little things that can make the 700R4 bullet proof.

The stroker motor has always weighed on my mind and I think that might be the best way to go. I was just curious if a hot thundering small block would be worse than a mild big block...as a mild big block wouldn't need all the radical parts that a small block would to make the same type of power.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Hopper111


I already have a 700R4 case ..... make the 700R4 bullet proof.

I was just curious if a hot thundering small block would be worse than a mild big block...as a mild big block wouldn't need all the radical parts that a small block would to make the same type of power.

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The 700R4 is able to withstand lots of ponies. I would definitely go with that.

As for a bb vs a sb money wise, a bb will always cost you more to build than a sb.

Hey, but then that's only my thinking given the info you gave me.

Having said that, I bought a mild crate 502 10 years ago and I have really enjoyed that as well.

Hmmm. I think i'll start stuffing guts in the 700...

I understand what you mean about price for bbc and sbc...

I think the stroker is a good idea, I might try to work a deal out with a friend to trade my 2 bolt block + some cash for his 4 bolt block.

I think my dilemma is almost solved :)

I have a vision on how it will look once it's done....almost....

If it's me, this is what I do;

* 700R4 Automatic
* GM Crate Motor - Fast burn 385 with cam kit 430 HP
* Final drive somewhere between 3.20 and 3.55

Your idea of either building your own BBC or SBC is admirable, but then then to discuss economy is a bit of an oxymoron. By suggesting economy, you're looking at the financial issues in driving it, but not in building it. A crate motor will run $4500, and more to build one, especially a stroker.

If you are really concerned about economy, I'd look at building a 3.8L supercharged engine. Easy to get 400+ HP out of using modern EFI and will get you near 20 MPG.

I'm now building a 388 stroker. I always wanted a BBC, but it's difficult to find and expensive to buy (i live in Brazil), so a decided to go with my 350 and stroke it.
I can tell you, i spent a lot of money in parts to build this engine, not to mention how boring is to grind the block for rods fitment. i didn't finished it yet, but now i realized, it will cost less to buy one ready to run than build one. Since i didn't fire it yet, i can't tell you how good a stroker is, but i think (at least i hope) it burn lot of rubber.
If i was you, i will go BIG BLOCK. I had read some mags and some comments in some forums, and all agree that a mild BBC will cost less than a very hot SBC. Think about the monster torque the BBC will gave you, and it is a stronger engine than SBC. Do you want fun, than you add some nitrous! Stock BB handle nitrous better than SB. How about a BBC under the hood? It looks fantastic! Another concern is, if you build a very hot SB, you probably will have this engine up to his limits, if you build a mid BB, you still can add other power goodies to him in the next months or years.
A BB is a thirsty beast, but how about a hot SB?
700R4 is the way to go, since you are looking for a every day driver and some fuel economy. Just look for a good rear end ratio.
I hope you get my point ( sorry it's not your fault, it's my bad english!).
Good luck!

Um, do not worry about build price, let that be my problem.

I can get away with a stroker for under 1500 because I am working for a tranny shop/ engine shop so my parts all come wholesale. It's not for lack of knowledge or cash that i cannot decide, its the lack of decisiveness on my part.

If i build the 350 stroker:
*NOTE THESE ARE ACTUAL PRICES THAT CAN BE FOUND AT www.motorville.com
Light weight scat crank: $203 Dollars

Renegade "Claimer" 5140 Steel Rods:$170

Pistons: Speed Pro 2 relief Flat tops:$217.60

I have the block already, the quote i got for machine work today was about $100 to prep the block to become a 383 stroker...

So, assume that I'd be in it for about $900 after i got rings, bearings, gaskets, and seals.

There is no labor cost, I don't need any help building a stroker motor as far as assembly, I just finished building a 391 cui SBC stroker and it made the car really fly.

So just approach my dilemma (if u want to help) as if cost was not an issue.

The only thing better than lots of cubic inches is more cubic inches!!!!! I have found that it may cost a bit more to build a high torque at low RPM 500+CI big block vs. a small block, but the operating and upkeep cost is much lower on the big inch motors....JMO to be sure, the sbc stroker motor guys will probably crucify me for making that statement........

Well.....................


MY shop truck is a 68 El Camino which I originally purchased as just a body ( it was originally a 327 4 speed 12 bolt truck). The original motor I put in was a slightly warmed over 307 with a Saginaw 4 speed, I ran it that way for about 12 years, hauling parts and the occasional trip to Sturgis hauling the bike and trailer.

When the 307 finally expired I through in a slightly warmed over 402 big block out of a 72 Cop Car and a Muncie 4 speed.

Besides the obvious HP/Torque increase (fun factor went up 3 or 4 times), Gas mileage improved on the interstate both loaded and unloaded (we have 75 MPH speed limits out here) and went down slightly around town. I used to have a few customers with the full sized El Caminos with 350, and I know even if I had started with a 350 the results would have been about the same., and I would have had to do a lot to a SB to equal the torque of the 402.

Big blocks all the way. My ZZ502 has a modest cam upgrade and ported heads and will make over 500 Lbf-ft of torque from 2,000 rpm to 6,200 rpm. Structurally the block and rotating gear can handle 2x this with ease. You can't get those characteristics with a small block stroker.

Kitz

the big block will need nothing to run over the small block just good stock parts and a upgrade on the cam a small hydraulic roller cam is the way to go. good intake and ex. any thing from a 396 -454 will do the job

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Severson
The only thing better than lots of cubic inches is more cubic inches!!!!! I have found that it may cost a bit more to build a high torque at low RPM 500+CI big block vs. a small block, but the operating and upkeep cost is much lower on the big inch motors....JMO to be sure, the sbc stroker motor guys will probably crucify me for making that statement........

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I agree Dave, I started with the 348 back in the 60's and had some bad luck with them, so I went back to the sb until the mid. 80's I tried a 454 in one of my el caminos and wouldn't have nothing else now. I looked around for a 454 for my S10 and the only one I could find, they wanted 1200.00 for the core and I said no way and went with the FI, LT1. Its makes good HP, but its not a BB.

So now that we've all established that a BB will easily out do a SB, but back to the economical side of things....

I know I'm gonna get flamed for even caring but hey, it's no fun if i can pass everything but a gas station :D

So will a stock like big block eat more gasoline than a hot SB stroker? I know that an el camino is like pushing a feather around for a BBC...

Also, what things do i need to look at to make traction? I'd really like to do it with a street tire if i can. Like Goodyear Eagle GTII or something similar.

In general the common thought is more displacement, more fuel usage. While this is generally true in a practical sense, it is HP that determines how much fuel is used. Bottom line there will not be a huge difference in fuel useage.

If fuel economy is that important then you do not want either of these options; get yourself a rice burner ;)

As for tires I like the Goodrich Radial T/A's. Right at home on an El Camino. A lot of this though is simply personal taste, unless you spend a bunch of time above 100 mph ...................


Good Luck, Kitz