Again remember I've been out of the automotive engine rebuilding since the late 60"s. Working on a car with my son. This car has an engine oil cooler. It this a good, bad or just a waste for a street car? Never had any experience with them.
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Again remember I've been out of the automotive engine rebuilding since the late 60"s. Working on a car with my son. This car has an engine oil cooler. It this a good, bad or just a waste for a street car? Never had any experience with them.
waste for a st. car.Quote:
Originally posted by Deluga
Again remember I've been out of the automotive engine rebuilding since the late 60"s. Working on a car with my son. This car has an engine oil cooler. It this a good, bad or just a waste for a street car? Never had any experience with them.
Hi Deluga;
I will differ with LT1S10.
I say, if ever a vehicle needed an engine oil cooler, or an automatic transmission cooler, or for that matter, even an engine cooling system, it is a street car.
A race car can do without all the above. Why? Cause it only accelerates for a few seconds. Whereas a street car sits at long lights, drives through slow traffic, climbs hills, etc.
I installed an engine oil cooler last year. It makes a big difference on my oil pressure. I am running my engine oil through a cooler in my rad. If you are going to install an oil cooler of any kind, the most effective ones are liquid to liquid coolers.
By the way, you might want to consider using an oil filter which has the anti drain valve.
Yea, its a cooler where the oil is cooled via radiator with an in line oil filter. I'm not sure if it has an anti drain valve.
The anti drain valve is within the new type of oil filters. Instead of a Fram PH13 for sbc, you now would use a PH5.
I believe this filter to be rather key when using a remote filter or external cooler due to the fact that a lot of oil could bleed back into the pan thereby causing an even longer dry start-up. This is why these filters were invented, to circumvent dry start-ups. Also to stop any debris to flow back into the pan once it has found it's way into the filter.
It's important if you have under piston oil squirters that cool the pistons.
A race car can do without an engine oil cooler or a tranny cooler.Are you kidding me?Try running lap after lap at 7,500 or more r.p.m.'s. in 90+ degree temp. anywhere in the midwest.Quote:
Originally posted by TyphoonZR
Hi Deluga;
I will differ with LT1S10.
I say, if ever a vehicle needed an engine oil cooler, or an automatic transmission cooler, or for that matter, even an engine cooling system, it is a street car.
A race car can do without all the above. Why? Cause it only accelerates for a few seconds. Whereas a street car sits at long lights, drives through slow traffic, climbs hills, etc.
I installed an engine oil cooler last year. It makes a big difference on my oil pressure. I am running my engine oil through a cooler in my rad. If you are going to install an oil cooler of any kind, the most effective ones are liquid to liquid coolers.
By the way, you might want to consider using an oil filter which has the anti drain valve.
i'm sticking to my story, for the st. you don't need it. :rolleyes:
I guess I should have bothered writing down each and every situation in which one would have to have coolers. Obviously, if one is to run lap after lap etc, one would not only want coolers, but one would also want electric fans and electric water pumps to assist in cooling down the engine between runs. Don't you think Erik? But then, I suppose even that should have a quailifier for some, because some race engines get thorn down between races, damn it's tough to be thorough. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dragsters do not have engine oil coolers, or even engine coolant and rads, yes?Quote:
Originally posted by erik erikson
Are you kidding me?Try running lap after lap at 7,500 or more r.p.m.'s. in 90+ degree temp. anywhere in the midwest.
Be that as it may, I merely said that a few second burn down the track without an oil cooler is not as critical as one driven down the streets through all sorts of traffic and whether, which might have an effect on longivity, don't you think?
I think what the question really is begging for, Erik, is an answer as to whether to bother having coolers on a street driven engine. What say ye?
And here too we could go on about a sbc 350 engine producing only 165 h.p. verse one producing 500 h.p.
It really depends on what class of drag racing your in.A lot of dragsters on (gas) use not only a rad. and a fan.A lot of dragsters that run a power glide use a frame mounted or remote mounted tranny cooler.Some dragsters on (alcohol) may only use coolant in the block it's self.Some (door slamer) cars will use an oil cooler with a fan because they may sit in staging for awhile before they run.Quote:
Originally posted by TyphoonZR
I guess I should have bothered writing down each and every situation in which one would have to have coolers. Obviously, if one is to run lap after lap etc, one would not only want coolers, but one would also want electric fans and electric water pumps to assist in cooling down the engine between runs. Don't you think Erik? But then, I suppose even that should have a quailifier for some, because some race engines get thorn down between races, damn it's tough to be thorough. Correct me if I'm wrong, but dragsters do not have engine oil coolers, or even engine coolant and rads, yes?
Be that as it may, I merely said that a few second burn down the track without an oil cooler is not as critical as one driven down the streets through all sorts of traffic and whether, which might have an effect on longivity, don't you think?
I think what the question really is begging for, Erik, is an answer as to whether to bother having coolers on a street driven engine. What say ye?
And here too we could go on about a sbc 350 engine producing only 165 h.p. verse one producing 500 h.p.
I agree with lt1s10!
Settled, I agree with lt1s10 as well. Forget oil coolers, I have no idea why some vehicle manufacturers even bother. Stupid engineers. Haha.
Guys, almost every issue in the world has pre-qualifiers. If an engine has adequate cooling, then why bother? There have got to be millions of cars out there that do not need oil coolers. But this is a hot rod site.
So how does one know? GM (just to mention one) has factory engine oil coolers in both some of their cars as well as in some trucks. And this in vehicles which might only have 200 hp.
In a lot of cases, engine oil gets cooled via coming into contact with metal which is being cooled by the coolant system, as in water jackets. Some oil gets cooled simply because it has a remote external oil filter and lines running to and from this location assist the cooling process. Others need a cooler either in the rad or an external one.
Some cooling can also take place via an aluminum oil pan and or cast in ribs aiding with the cooling. I have even seen aluminum fins which can be attached to the oil filters to support with cooling.
I think one of the best cooling solutions has got to be the aluminum block as well as the rad.
But to blanket sweep all street vehicles in a category which supposedly do not need oil coolers.....Hello!
Let’s just say this, that if you can shave a few degrees off of the temperature of tranny oil, engine oil, etc., we have an once of prevention. Damn, we all know how thin oil gets when the engine is up to running temp in cool weather, never mind hot weather, add to that, in a hot rod engine. That is why 50 weight oil is preferred, because it gets too thin.
I could add that there are those configurations of vehicles which might have an inherent problem with cooling , simply because of lack of a big open grill. These cars can use all the help available.
Does it matter to me whether you install a cooler or not??? Let me think about that. If I lose sleep on this matter, I will tell you tomorrow.
'Settled, I agree with lt1s10 as well."
Now we all agree. Ant it nice. :cool:
yep, you're the man! Hey, it's just me. Now tell me this s-10, didn't your ride come with a factory engine oil cooler, heheheh!
No, why don't you tell me which American cars came from the factory with external oil coolers on them. while you're at it check out my web site and if you see any oil coolers on any of those cars. I dont think not have coolers on any of them caused me any problems. :HMMM: **)Quote:
Originally posted by TyphoonZR
yep, you're the man! Hey, it's just me. Now tell me this s-10, didn't your ride come with a factory engine oil cooler, heheheh!
You're saying this car has a cooler. By all means, use it. It certainly can't hurt anything.Quote:
Originally posted by Deluga
Again remember I've been out of the automotive engine rebuilding since the late 60"s. Working on a car with my son. This car has an engine oil cooler. It this a good, bad or just a waste for a street car? Never had any experience with them.
Boy did I open a can of worms. I should probably give you the specs as I know on the engine. 350 with a Comp 292 cam, Keith Black dome pistons, 350 trans , 411 rear and 2800 stall converter. Engine completely rebuilt with about 25 hours on it. My son bought the car, 71 Nova, over E bay. After running the engine , about a total of three more hours, the valves started to tap and then the engine started to smoke. The engine was bored 30 over. Did a compression check and was 170 accross the board. Decided to pull the heads and take them to a machine shop. Bad news. Nothing in the head was what it was suppose to be. No new parts like the write up said. I decided to take the block over to the machine shop and a quick visual it was determined that possibly some of the rings have not seated. Am waiting for teardown and answer on just what is what. Well anyway getting back to the oil cooler, the engine did run very hot , according to the temp gauge. The machine shop it should'nt and they'll try to find an answer why. So I guess the engine cooler might have helped to an extent. Just not quite sure where to go from here.
Deluga, my understanding was you wanted to know did you "need" an motor oil cooler on a "st." driven car. the answer is "no" you don't, but "if" one is there it wouldn't hurt to hook it up. to me it looks bad, its in the way, it may leak, and i wouldn't have one on my hot rod. i've run oil temp. gauges on most all of my st. cars and getting the oil temp. up is more of a problem than cooling it off. you could have had 2 oil coolers on you motor and it would have did the samething. if you water temp. is good then the oil temp is good, but you're not gonna cool you your motor with a oil cooler. i dont think GM has ever put a oil cooler on any car that i know of from the factory.
Do a poll and ask everybody "Do you run motor oil coolers on your hot rod, yes or no and lets see what everybody else does.
Lots of cop cars and taxis have factory oil coolers. The makers don't like them on Joe Citizen grocery getters because they are a potential leak source, and they cost money. The ones in the radiator are better in cold climates because they actually warm the oil faster on a cold start, as do trans coolers in the rad tank. The Ford cop car ones have a bypass in the adapter that lets cold oil reach the engine easier at startup.
LT1S10..... factory oil coolers were in C5 Corvettes, Vipers, some Cadillacs, and I think, some early Boss Mustangs. The Chevy one had an adapter that fit above the oil filter.
I agree that gettng the oil temp up high enough is usually the challenge. We had an oil cooler on the rock crawler and took it off. The oil temp stays roughly in line with the water temp (180F) even when idling on a Tucson summer day.
Oil coolers on non-drag race cars are there for a purpose. Like a NASCAR car, the water cooling is marginal so the oil cooler supplements the radiator cooling. If your street car is that close to the edge, something is wrong OR you have a bazillion horsepower motor.
Quote:
Originally posted by robot
.. have a bazillion horsepower motor.
Speaking of bazillion..........
This blonde notices the headlines on the morning paper of the guy sitting close to her, it reads, “3 BRAZILLION SOLDIERS KILLED.”
She exclaims, “wow, that is awful.”
She turns to the guy and asks, “sir, how many are there in a brazillion?”
But yeah, lt1, like was already posted, numerous cars come with them from the factory, as do numerous makes of 4x4 trucks.
Another idea is run synthetic oil.This will help lower your oil temps.Quote:
Originally posted by Deluga
Boy did I open a can of worms. I should probably give you the specs as I know on the engine. 350 with a Comp 292 cam, Keith Black dome pistons, 350 trans , 411 rear and 2800 stall converter. Engine completely rebuilt with about 25 hours on it. My son bought the car, 71 Nova, over E bay. After running the engine , about a total of three more hours, the valves started to tap and then the engine started to smoke. The engine was bored 30 over. Did a compression check and was 170 accross the board. Decided to pull the heads and take them to a machine shop. Bad news. Nothing in the head was what it was suppose to be. No new parts like the write up said. I decided to take the block over to the machine shop and a quick visual it was determined that possibly some of the rings have not seated. Am waiting for teardown and answer on just what is what. Well anyway getting back to the oil cooler, the engine did run very hot , according to the temp gauge. The machine shop it should'nt and they'll try to find an answer why. So I guess the engine cooler might have helped to an extent. Just not quite sure where to go from here.
just for reference, on my street big block I have an oil temp gauge. The oil would peak at about the temp of the water if I wasn't moving at all.
When I was moving on back roads it would drop down well below the temp gauge start point (140).
My biggest problem was oil being too Cool.
Maybe I should install and oil heater.
This cooler on my son's Nova is definetly an aftermarket addition. It didn't come from the factory that way. I was just wondering since the engine seemed to run hot, if the previous owner had a concern about the oil getting too hot. From what most replies say getting the oil to the right high temperature is the challenge not cooling it off. Your right about it looking like a mess. An adapter is mounted on the block, hoses run from the adapter to the cooling coil, then to the filter and back to the engine. Rubber hose heaven.
Engine oil provides 60% of an engines cooling efficency ( antifreeze coolant, the remaining 40% ) , so a cooler oil would seem better, but really only efficent if the oil temp exceeds the optimum tempurture of the oil and gets too thin when hot, which is listed on the oil container, the colder oil becomes thicker, therefor you get more oil preassure, without the oil cooler, the oil would be thinner and have less preassure. It is not nessary, but won't hurt anything.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Deluga
This cooler on my son's Nova is definetly an aftermarket addition. It didn't come from the factory that way. I was just wondering since the engine seemed to run hot, if the previous owner had a concern about the oil getting too hot. From what most replies say getting the oil to the right high temperature is the challenge not cooling it off. Your right about it looking like a mess. An adapter is mounted on the block, hoses run from the adapter to the cooling coil, then to the filter and back to the engine. Rubber hose heaven. [/QUOTE
Go ahead and hook it up, I'll bet you you'll blow the motor up from a leak before you blow it up from the oil being to hot. cool your motor and the oil will take care of itself.
TyphoonZR, I was talking about a nova. you need to lay off whatever you're smoking. you have no idea what you're talking about. :whacked:Quote:
Originally posted by TyphoonZR
Speaking of bazillion..........
This blonde notices the headlines on the morning paper of the guy sitting close to her, it reads, “3 BRAZILLION SOLDIERS KILLED.”
She exclaims, “wow, that is awful.”
She turns to the guy and asks, “sir, how many are there in a brazillion?”
But yeah, lt1, like was already posted, numerous cars come with them from the factory, as do numerous makes of 4x4 trucks.
lots of cops cars don't have them. :confused: cop cars has sirens and blue lights, but I wouldn't put them on my hot rod. :cool: **)Quote:
Originally posted by R Pope
Lots of cop cars and taxis have factory oil coolers. The makers don't like them on Joe Citizen grocery getters because they are a potential leak source, and they cost money. The ones in the radiator are better in cold climates because they actually warm the oil faster on a cold start, as do trans coolers in the rad tank. The Ford cop car ones have a bypass in the adapter that lets cold oil reach the engine easier at startup.
I dunno, a sireen would be cool!
Are you trying to be funny?Quote:
Originally posted by tcodi
just for reference, on my street big block I have an oil temp gauge. The oil would peak at about the temp of the water if I wasn't moving at all.
When I was moving on back roads it would drop down well below the temp gauge start point (140).
My biggest problem was oil being too Cool.
Maybe I should install and oil heater.
Hey, they don't all smoke that stuff in Canada.Take off Eh!!! :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally posted by lt1s10
TyphoonZR, I was talking about a nova. you need to lay off whatever you're smoking. you have no idea what you're talking about. :whacked:
i think he smoked his and mine. pissed me off, when he didn't send me any. :HMMM: :LOL:Quote:
Originally posted by erik erikson
Hey, they don't all smoke that stuff in Canada.Take off Eh!!! :LOL: :LOL:
i had one, and it made my motor run hot, and i didn't want to put an oil cooler on it, so i had to take it off. :cool: **)Quote:
Originally posted by R Pope
I dunno, a sireen would be cool!