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hey guys, im looking to buy a rebuild master kit, i want to biuld a mild performance engine, so i want to keep the compression no more then 9.1 . i was looking at some kits from engine kits, and summit. who has the best all round kit? im looking for the best quality for the buck. any body know who has the best kits? thanks.
Goto PAW
i thionk its Performance Auto Warehouse
they have a huge selection of rebuild kits
and in ranges of performance
as to know how to better help you I need to know how much experience you have in rebuilding an engine, im not going to poke and make fun , it's just better for me to be able to give you more or less detailed info.
summit has Federal Mogul Engine Rebuild Kits that run $380.
jegs dont sell engine kits but you could call and request one.
scoggin dickey has kits that range from $320 up to $850.
stores like autozone has kits that vary in components and in price .
this will be my first build, but i have plenty of help from my neighbor who redid his engine ground up and plenty of others i know, so i have lots of help. im looking for a good rotating assembly for a 350.
i was looking at the kit on engine kits .com the 350 daily driver kit, it has everything i need, crank, pistons, rods, bearings and balancing parts, im really considering this package, what to you guys think?
im gonna get a 350 block from my uncle, im gonna have it machined, the works, cleaned, flexed bored. im looking for a good kit to install. and i have other parts i can use to build my new engine, i dont wanna go any bigger than a 350 kit, no 383 stroker kits non of that, just a good rebuild kit that i can upgrade a little bit to have some extra kick to it.
if I can make a suggestion . you could putt together a really go kit you'r self . that way you'r not limited to whats out there on the market.
i looked at the kit you posted. if you can afford it go with forged pistons. some people love the Hypereutectics. but you couldn't pay me to take them off your hands.
I had a dodge 225 slant six that was custom built ,burn up a set of Hypereutectic pistons.
you could go with the 350ci "Custom Forged F/T Piston" kit from the same site. it is a better kit than the one you listed. and I would get the New 5140 I-Beam Forged Rod w/ARP Bolts (+$135.00) upgrade added to it and get the 5140 forged crankshaft as an up grade> I know they dont list it in the option list below the kit but they can upgrade it just the same for an extra $330.
the kit you posted cost $499.
my suggestion from the same web site cost $1,269
the stronger the bottom end the more power it can handle, and last much longer.
im sorry if it seemed like im trying to push you into getting a forged engine kit. sometimes I forget that some people cant afford to take that big of a hit in the pocket.
the kit you posted is just fine. but dont go buy it untile after the machine work is done. most kits cant be returned without a restocking fee . wait and see what sizes the pistons and bearings will need to be before you spend money on the kit.
Here's a nice economy master kit at Northern Auto. It has several options for pistons and cams. Do some research and get some advise from the 'experts' here on the forum before you go too far.
http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...uctModelId=380
well i can upgrade a little bit, like cranks, and a lil of the other stuff, but im trying not to spend a whole lot of money for a rebuild that is gonna be just a tiny bit over stock, so, for the kit, ill fork out 500-600 hundred, this isnt gonna be a crazy motor, just a nice rebuild, that can handle a nice cam, thats all, so if you have any more suggestions, id gladly accept them, the kit that i was looking at and with the upgrades you mentioned sound good, as long as its reasonable.
I would strongly urge you to set the quench on the motor at the optimum of 0.035" to 0.040". This is the dimension from the top of the piston crown to the underside of the cylinder head. The other thing I would urge you to do is choose a piston that has a truly flat top to it instead of just a flat ring maybe 1/2" wide around the perimeter of the crown. Here's an example of the type of piston I would use....
http://kb-silvolite.com/performance....tails&P_id=156
Regardless of what others may think of them, I've used hypereutectic pistons in my builds and the builds of friend's motors and have no bad experiences to report. They use a very tight piston to wall clearance to reduce the tendency of the piston to rock in the bore and keep the rings square. You have to be careful about the ring end gap and follow the manufacturer's recommendations closely, they run wider gaps than cast or forged pistons. Don't have the shop deck the block until you get all your parts together. Have them bore and hone the block for your pistons (by the way, don't bore over 0.020" if you don't have to), then pick the block up and take it home to assemble the crank, main bearings and one piston/rod assembly (less rings) into the block. What you want to do is check the deck height with one assembly only on the number 1,2,7 and 8 holes. Using only one piston/rod assembly will minimize variations in rod length/compression height and allow you to get valid measurements of the deck. With these dimensions written down, you'll be able to tell the shop where to cut the decks to square them up with the centerline of the crank. You'll also be able to determine the thickness of gasket you'll want to use and with the deck height to reach your 0.035" to 0.040" quench. In other words, if the deck will clean up and leave the piston down in the bore 0.010", you would want to choose a gasket that compresses at 0.028" to reach the proper quench. If you have to cut the decks so that the crown of the piston is equal with the deck (called zero deck), then you may want to choose a gasket that compresses at 0.039" to reach your quench.
Use 320 wet sandpaper with water to sand the tops of the pistons to remove all sharp edges and corners, do the same to the combustion chambers in the heads.
These procedures will allow you to run all the ignition timing you want in the motor with junk pump gas.
Resist the urge to overcam the motor for a lumpy "rump-rump" sound. You'll hate the throttle response and soggy bottom end.
If you want to nail down the exact static compression ratio of the motor while you have it down, follow my instructions.......
http://streetmachinesoftablerock.com...opic.php?t=124
You'll need this info to make an intelligent cam choice.
I would run a hypereutectic piston for any street car that makes less than 450 h.p.,above that I would look at a forged piston.Try Midwestmotorsportsinc.com for pistons.The last set of hypereutectic pistons I saw for a 350 where about $75 for a non-coated skirt version.You never said what heads you had.These pistons will give you about 8.4 to 1 with a 76 cc head.A lot of people talk about the (quench) area.For a (stocker type re-build) I would not even look at it.After all tens of thousands of engines come out of Detroit and other cities with out really being checked.I would just make sure that the block is not warped and and the heads are flat and call it good.I would look at cam's with less than 215 degree's duration at .050 if you run any more than that you will need to look at a looser stall plus you don't have the comp. ratio to support it.
they are gm casting, i dont know exactly, but i think they are 305's, im not sure what cc size though ill have to find the casting number, thanks alot for the cam specs. these things really help alot i need to take in as much as i can, this is my first build.
im sorry, sometimes I when typing on this keyboard, I fail to get what im trying to say on the screen. IM still new to this online thing, so excuse me. I will get better at it in time.
I had stated that before you buy any kit . but didnt say it the way I ment to.
you need to have a good talk with the person going to do the machine work on the engine block and heads
if you plane on cleaning and doing any machine work yourself. you will still need a pro to consult with and someone local incase you need to take it to them if you do something wrong.
most machine shops dont charge for info, only parts and labor, so use there experience's to learn.
most anyone who has ever built an engine will tell you that a properly built engine is only as good as the craftmans ship that goes into it.
this is where you will learn to take you'r time double check every thing and then do it again,
the most common mistake a human can make when building an engine is you missed final torqueing a bolt on a rod, main or head. and can ruin a good buildup.
this is you'r first, take your time dont rush it, and always check you'r self.
also I forgot to ask what year is the engine?
is it a pre 86?
for what you have to spend , you might want to call a local machine shop and ask what they may have. I did this on my first engine build, and found a kit for under $250. and they gave me a free used distributor and chrome oilpan . they had laying on a shelf . so you never know what you may find. and check local bone yards.
I have found edelbrock intakes, headers and some nice heads on junk engines . for little cash.
you can take along a few hand tools , go to the junk yard and ask where they keep the scraped engines. most if they dont run will go in the pile. you can pull oilpans and main caps to see what cranks are in them. I have found forged cranks in an engine that had ran hot and blew the head gaskets, got the crank for $50.
some would say dont buy any internal engine parts from a bone yard. I say you can get just about anything from them and make out like you stole it.
yeah, i was planning on going to the yard for some parts and to see what i could find. all the block work im having done at a shop. yeah i know what you mean about parts for engines or parts in general, ive heard so many stories. i want to get in there and just look around to see what i can find. for one i need a radiator, steering column and a dash. the the block im gonna use is from my cousins 69 nova, he built a stroker and kept the old engine in his back yard, so he is gonna give me the block. im gonna have the works done to it, new freeze plugs, bored, honed , new cam bearings put in, everything to get it ready for the build. the egine is gonna be for my 74 chevy van. its pretty sweet. right now its stripped to hell, a rolling chassis, im doing everything. new electrical, new egine , new tranny, new interior, alot of stuff. i plan on biulding this engine as a nice 350, headers, and a nice little cam, so it has some pep. as for asking the shop for what they have lying around, thats a good idea, i might be able to score some parts for free. that would be cool. i was told by my uncle that i should buy the kit first, then have the block done to fit the kit. like piston bore and all that. now what you guys say is to prep the block first then buy the kit? i can the logic in that. and one thing is fure sure, im glad i have the help that i have, i know stuff about engines but im still learning, and still need to know alot more to build them right, ive done research and i think a engine from scratch is the best way, that way i learn, and i get what i want in the engine. now about the heads, i really dont know that much, just general info, but the process of a rebuild on them is hazy, so i will talk to who ever i choose to do them , about the situation. im still learning about, cc size, inatke all that stuff. but as of now, i have a pretty good idea on what i what to do in this build and will continue to do my homework.
If you are just looking for a mild performance engine, you really can't beat the deal Chevy offers through the Goodwrench program. You can buy a brand new 350 longblock for around $ 1300.00, and it comes with a warranty. For the novice engine builder it is a great option. By the time you pay for the machine shop and the kit, you will be at or over that figure.
Slide a mild cam from PAW or others into it, and you will have an honest 280-300 HP engine, with the proper carb/intake. There are so many things that can and do go wrong even when pro's rebuild engines, that, if you can avoid it, you can save a lot of grief.
I wish I were into Chevy's, because it is a steal.
yea that was my first plan like 3 months ago, but i was told id have to rebalane the whole engine because the cam was and the rest of the parts were balanced togther and if i threw a different cam in id have to rebalace the parts and make sure the heads and and engine would be able to support the cam, figuring you biuld the engine around the cam. but i figure id have to do all that anyway if i put performance parts in. and also i heard if i up grade the engine, or put different parts in, the warranty is void. but yeah it is real hard to beat.
Nope. You are getting bad info. Cam has absoutely no bearing on balance. You can go to Chevy and get the early style 2 bolt block, slide a $ 50 cam in it from PAW, use a $ 120. aluminum intake from anybody, top it with a $ 200.00 Edelbrock 500 cfm, fire it with a $ 200.00 Unilite setup, and you will be good to go for about $ 2000. I can't hardly rebuild an engine for $ 2K.
Like I said, I wish I was into Chevys because these Goodwrench crates are the steal of a lifetime, and you get a warranty. I wish Ford had a comparable program. With the limitations you outlined not having experience doing this work and all, you really would be way ahead. Even pros screw up rebuilds.
I did a swap for a customer putting one of the Goodwrench engines into his Vette, and it was the simplest install I've ever done.
Give it some thought.
donsrods is right, im into both ford, GM, and chrysler products, and you just cant beet there long blocks and complete crate engines for the asking price.
if you added up the price of a cheep block, with questionable machinability then through in parts to build the engine and the labor of a pro to assemble it and give you a warrenty of 3/36. im pretty sure what you will comeup with cost much more. anywhere from $200, and up in what you could save, and putt that to a cool set of wheels or headers.
ok so, i can buy a long block, through in a bigger cam as long as i upgrade everything else? like rocker arms studs springs, and all that stuff? i was looking at the gm 350 long block, its got 260 hp and 350 ft lbs , i want to put a nice cam in , low end torque, not to big though, would would you guys recomend? i was looking at comp cams 242 i think, it seemed ok for the engine. those are my plans, you guys have any other suggestions? thanks again.
Yep, you are on the right track. As long as you are not getting crazy with the lift of the cam, the stock springs/ lifters/etc. will be fine. The reason I suggest the PAW route (performance Auto Warehouse) is that their house brand cams are actually Crane Cams in a different box. (I lived in Daytona Beach where Crane is based, and saw pallets of cams coming right down the assembly line, going into plain white boxes slated for PAW, and I have bought a few from them, and a Crane timing card comes in the box,)
Call someone like Crane, outline your car and what you want it to do, and they will give you the specs you should use for a cam. Then take that info and shop. The key to good solid HP is a balance of all the add on parts, cam, intake, carb, exhaust, etc.
Don't get nuts with the cam and carb setup, and you will have a better running car with good performance, economy, and reliablility.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
yea , i wanted to get a a new intake, like a edelbrock performer or a nice dual plane intake. i have a holley 4 bbl and now i have to select a cam. so i guess ill get the engine, slam on the bolt ons, and upgrade the rockers,lifters, and pushrods and i think ill be fine. i had trouble going through PAW , i went to the web site and all they had was cataloge pages, ill try again. im trying to get the engine to 320 hp, well i really want the most torque, so i guess hp doesnt matter.
You will be a lot happier going the route you are outlining, rather than rebuilding a tired/used engine. I am in the marine business, and we stopped installing rebuilt or remanufactured engines years ago because of the high failure rate. And our engines came from people like Jasper and other well known names. We were losing like 10 to 20% of the engines right out of the box, and this is from people who have very controlled environments, and do this day in day out.
Every time I fire up an engine I personally build, I hold my breath, because you just never know. For someone who hasn't done it a few times before, even if you get friends and relatives to help, it is a real crap-shoot. I even check engines I get back from the machine shop, because they sometimes screw up......humans.
As for the upgrade to different rockers, pushrods, etc. I feel you should rethink that. You are putting this engine into a Chevy Van, essentially a box on wheels, that will never see the North side of 4500 RPMs. Stock drivetrains are fine with that, and more. The same engine is used in every Mercruiser/Volvo/etc. marine 5.7 boat engine, and they are built to run at 4600-5000 all day long.
But it is your engine, and only you can make that call.
As for PAW.........yep, their website stinks. But order a catalog, and then compare it to Summit, Jegs, etc, and then shop for the best deal. I use all 3 and more.
You are making some good choices and being smart enough to ask others for suggestions. And that's all we can give is suggestions, and you know what they say about opinions.
yea i got a jegs and a summit catalog, i guess i got some more to order.