Help Me Please!!!

Ok, I'm trying to design my own top end now. I was pondering using vortec items on my 72 SBC 350. Is this possible? Do the late model heads bolt to the early model block? Sorry to make you guys read a book...

If i were to do it, i would want to use these heads:
SB Chevy Late Model Vortec Heads
• Available in Cast Iron or Aluminum
• 190cc Intake Runners
• 64cc Combustion Chambers
• 2.02"/1.60" valves
• Straight plug
• Vortec intake
bolt pattern
• Bare
• Sold as each $280.00

This intake:
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap (1500-6500)
• Dual-plane, low rise intake
manifold with Powerful
Air-Gap design
• Features an open air space
that separates the runners
from the hot engine oil
resulting in a cooler, denser charge for more power $216.00

This Carburator:
Holley Double Pumper Carbs
• Model 4150
• Mechanical secondaries
• Manual choke
• Dual feed fuel inlet
• Center hung floats
• Power valve blow-out protection
650 CFM $337.84 OR 700 CFM $362

This cam based on it's use description:
Comp Cam- Magnum Camshaft
Adv. Dur.: 292/292
Dur. @ .050: 244/244
Lobe Sep.: .501
Gross Lift: 110 $156.68 /w Lifters

Thank you for any help in advance, I'm really new at trying to make everything match. I also want to change my rods to these:
Renegade“Claimer” Series I-Beam
Connecting Rods
• Manufactured from 5140 steel
with polished beams
• Connecting rods are
within +/- 5 grams in a set
• ARP 8740 rod bolts included
• Quality inspected in the USA $154.44
They are 5.7" pressfit rods.

I want to change to Speed Pro, Hypereutetic pistons. Flat top, 4 reliefs, and 9.35 compression with 64 cc heads (the vortecs i listed are 64cc) $94.40/set

There's my book. Sorry! :confused:

Yes, those heads will work for your application. But the main problem I see is that the Vortec heads you list are stock versions which will not support .501 lift. Generally, .480 lift is maximum for stock Vortecs. You need Vortecs that have been modified to accept larger springs to support more lift. Go here and look at Part #SD8060AGP:

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3539...nder-Heads.htm

I would also have the bowls blended before you put them together. They will flow better that way. Everything else looks like you are building a pretty stout 350.

so minus the lift conflict on the heads, does it look like everything else will be ok?

Given this set of information, can you guesstimate how much torque/hp I'll have?

I hope to have a nice engine when this is all done. I don't really want earth shattering power but I'd like to achieve around 400 ft/lbs.

I think you should come very close to achieving your goal with this combination. I don't have Desktop Dyno on this computer so I can't run it for you, but if you join the Performance Forum at www.chevytalk.com (my favorite website) , introduce yourself and post your specs and ask someone to run a dyno simulation. Put "Please Dyno" as the subject of your post. There is a lot of traffic on that site, and guys are running simulations for others all the time. You may also get a few more recommendations. After joining this website a few years ago, I feel as though I have had a college class in Chevy high performance.

ok thank you very much. Anymore input would be very appreciated.

Another question,
Is the vortec route a good one? Do the vortec style parts make good power and are the consistant? Are they worth the money?
Ok, so it was like 3 questions :)

Vortecs flow better than the old "fuelie" heads and the combustion chamber is way superior to the old design. They are also the most cost-effective heads on the market. Some people will say that Iron Eagles are superior to Vortecs, but they are not as cost effetive. Vortecs can be made to flow even better with some minor port work such as blending the bowls. But they cannot be compared to the top-of-the-line aluminum heads like AFR. AFR 180's or 195's would make a lot more power than Vortecs but they also cost around $1250.00 per pair and you have to wait about 8 weeks to get them as the company makes them up on an order by order basis. You will not be disappointed with the performance of Vortecs on a 350. They are marginal on a 383 because of flow, and that is why I popped for AFR's.

I see, I had pondered a 383 but then i thought, no because i what if i don't want that much power...If i build this 350 and i want more power after I experience it, then I will put the 350 into my truck in place of the tired old 305, then I'll build for more power...But for what i want to do with my weekend warrior, I think 400hp applied the right way will be plenty.

Also, just curious for future references, what kind of special motor parts does a turbo require? I know nitrous and blowers require tougher parts but what is the story on a turbo? Later on, if i decide i want to, could i just strap a turbo on to this 350 exactly the way i've told you i want to build it? or what would i have to change?

I'm also looking for advice on what i need to make this power plant with a th350 and a 3.73 posi rear end plant the 10 inch wide tires mickeys that i want to use on the back. I also want to eliminate wheelhop, as this engine is going into an el camino, i get the downfalls of the light rear end due to it being a truck form. I know 400 hp won't be hard to stick to the ground with 10 inch wide tires, but i don't even know the basic steps to take...

A turbo-charged engine requires a compression ratio similar to a blower--8:1. I depends how much boost you are going to use. Like a blower engine, you should have a forged crankshaft, 4 bolt mains, the deck o-ringed if you are going to run a lot of boost.

If you really want to put your power to the pavement, check out Hotchkiss suspensions. They have all the products you need.

BTW, what kind of transmission are you running? If you are running an automatic, you won't like the double pumper Holley. A vacuum secondary carb will work a lot better.

Quote:

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Originally posted by rumrumm
Vortecs flow better than the old "fuelie" heads and the combustion chamber is way superior to the old design. They are also the most cost-effective heads on the market. Some people will say that Iron Eagles are superior to Vortecs, but they are not as cost effetive. Vortecs can be made to flow even better with some minor port work such as blending the bowls. But they cannot be compared to the top-of-the-line aluminum heads like AFR. AFR 180's or 195's would make a lot more power than Vortecs but they also cost around $1250.00 per pair and you have to wait about 8 weeks to get them as the company makes them up on an order by order basis. You will not be disappointed with the performance of Vortecs on a 350. They are marginal on a 383 because of flow, and that is why I popped for AFR's.

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The Dart Iron Eagle sell for $560.To get the Vortec set up to handle up to .525 lift you are looking at about $650 and then you have to buy the studs also.

Yes, but can you get the iron eagles in aluminum for $560? Or would the cast iron iron eagles be better than aluminum vortecs?

Iron Eagles and Vortecs are only available in iron. Dart makes aluminum heads but they are called Pro-1's. I think they are up around $900-1000 per pair. Aluminum heads are higher than cast iron heads. You get what you pay for.

To answer a few questions.

Im running a th350 built by me, I've done a few extras that will make it run a lot better. I regeared 1st gear. Makes the launch a lot better but not exactly sure how durable it is. We'll see!

Um, "Vortecs are only available in iron"

I don't think so?

I'll look at some vaccum secondary stuff...

I may not want a cam with that much lift, if things go the way i'd like them to, I'll be having to drive this engine everyday so I'll go milder. This will give me some leeway on my heads.

To be totally honest with you, in MY OPION, and everybody has one, You need to rethink this whole engine setup.

To start with, your overcamming, underheading, and trying to squeeze too much.
You say you want about 400ftlbs which is good, but thats about 1.2 per cube.
Then the vortec thing, those are great heads as for as stock heads, but to run what your wanting the cost benefit is not worth it. those heads are only 170cc ports and they are good, but not that good. Heads is power!!!!!!
You say you don't want to run a 383 because it may be too much power, but that's not the case. You can build it milder and last longer for the same power range. More power, less workl
I would build a 383 stroker with flat top KB pistons 9.2:1 CR
Performer RPM Air-gap intake, and a Comp Extreme Energy cam XE274H topped off with a set of 200cc Iron Eagles with 64cc chambers. To finish it you need a street avenger 770 Holley vacuum secondary. You would love this motor. I just built one for my cousin's truck. Everyday work truck, and he loves it.

I see your point...I might think about doing a 383. This motor is going into a 1972 el camino and is going to be used for a street/strip motor. I've already got the 350 block, but if i were going to make a 383 I'd have to buy a new crank which isn't that bad. It's going to be awhile before i can get iron eagles...Would a 350 head opened up work? I have plenty of stock 350 heads...Can they be worked to be suitable?

stock heads are ok but they don't make power. I can set you in the right direction for a complete rotating assembly and heads for about 900 its in ebay stores called Racepart$ You can get complete rotating assy. for about 450 and heads for about 450

Porting a 350 head still won't get you close to an aftermarket head because of the combusion chamber design and the flow that is built into the the Iron Eagles, Vortecs and others. New chamber design is so much more efficient that the old style, you can run more compression and build more power. Besides, porting is not cheap unless you do it yourself, and you really have to know what you are doing. If it was me, I would wait until I could afford exactly what I needed rather than try to make do with something less than ideal. A 383 will really make that El Camino move, and you will not have to run nearly as big a cam to make the power a comparable 350 would have to.

Well, if i can sell my truck, this will all be done a lot sooner. I'm asking $2000 for it. 1987 Chevrolet Silverado, long bed. All original, tranny rebuilt in July, '05. Well maintained, interior good except seat. Seat cover provided. Bed liner, quality sound/cd player. Has a 305 in it. 97,000 original miles. Paint is fair, some oxidizing. If anyone is interested.

I agree that the 383 would work out better because more power at less rpms. Does a 383/th350 combo pulling about 400hp sound good?

My next question, what is the easiest way to get primer and bondo off of a vehicle? I need to get it off of the el camino so i can see what i need to replace as far as body and metal. I know the floor has to come out but I'm not sure about the fenders and quarters.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Hopper111

I agree that the 383 would work out better because more power at less rpms. Does a 383/th350 combo pulling about 400hp sound good?

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Sounds good to me and it should not be that hard to accomplish with the right parts.

I know everyone says the bigger you start, the easier it is to get bigger...Would i be better off to just start with a 400 sbc? 400 cui /400 hp would be very easy. With the correct setup, the 400's are without the heating problems...

A good 400 would make tons of raw, grunt power. I wouldn't have to spend a bunch of money on balancing and stuff either...

Basically my question is: Would a 400 be more cost effective?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Hopper111
I see, I had pondered a 383 but then i thought, no because i what if i don't want that much power...If i build this 350 and i want more power after I experience it, then I will put the 350 into my truck in place of the tired old 305, then I'll build for more power...But for what i want to do with my weekend warrior, I think 400hp applied the right way will be plenty.

Also, just curious for future references, what kind of special motor parts does a turbo require? I know nitrous and blowers require tougher parts but what is the story on a turbo? Later on, if i decide i want to, could i just strap a turbo on to this 350 exactly the way i've told you i want to build it? or what would i have to change?

I'm also looking for advice on what i need to make this power plant with a th350 and a 3.73 posi rear end plant the 10 inch wide tires mickeys that i want to use on the back. I also want to eliminate wheelhop, as this engine is going into an el camino, i get the downfalls of the light rear end due to it being a truck form. I know 400 hp won't be hard to stick to the ground with 10 inch wide tires, but i don't even know the basic steps to take...

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What stall speed are you going to run?

Not, sure. Using what i have for now and I don't know what stall speed it is...Prolly very low. I will get this all worked out eventually.

Honestly, would i be better off building a good 400, than a stout 350 or 383?

My Camaro-driving friend doesn't like the 400 SBC. He says the cylinders are siamesed, and hot-spot. He's a great fan of the 350 block, though he runs a very turned up 327 in the Camaro.

I liked the idea of the 400 myself, but he talked me out of it for my Dad's '57. I'm more into the FE Fords - too many years of playing with them - but am glad I checked this thread.

The 383/Vortec option sounds pretty good for a street-able antique for my son to drive. The car is 50 years old the year he graduates high school, and he never met Grandpa, so we want to get this right. Less cam makes it more of a sleeper, and that's another part of the program.

Thing I like about the bigger inch motors is that you can get the HP/torque without having to twist it tight and run a cam that produces a lot of lope. The 428 shreds tires at low RPMs, and pulls solid to about 6000. 383 would probably come closest to that in the SBC.

For our application, the only thing about the Vortec heads is the valve cover bolts through the covers - hard to make it look stock that way. But it's a small price to pay for a better head, and most folks wouldn't notice. Not a factor if you're building a modern hot rod - we're trying to build a retro rod, like Dad would have done in the early 1960s.

Now I'll be interested if anyone has information that contradicts Steve's anti-400SBC bias. More inches - ugh ugh ugh!

Stick with either a 350 or a 383. A good 400 block is getting increasingly hard to find as they are prone to cracking in the lifter valley and main webbing. A 383 will make pleny of power and torque for your application.

FWIW SnakeHerder, there is an adapter plate available to allow use of older style valve covers on center bolt heads.