305 vs. 350

Think he allready won a road race, didn't he win at Sonoma a year or so ago?? Not so sure he doesn't have a win at the Glen, too. IROC is a good times deal for most of these guys. a few races in a car you have no voice in chassis set up or equipment. When you look at all of his other successes, IROC is really no big deal. I believe he was a national champ in carts, too. It's obvious you don't like him, but like him or not he has a ton of talent and will be a factor in Motorsports for years to come.

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Originally posted by firebird45331
as much as I believe Jimmy Johnson is a little turd of a clone of gordon. I believe he has more potential than Jeff.

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you are letting you dislike for jeff get in the way of any kind of common sense. after jimmy win 4 championships and 70 races then you can talk that crap. IROC dont prove nothing to me.

There ya go, Mike. NASCAR fans are a bit on the fickle side, you can go from hero to zero and back again in the same season!!!!! Gordon was an unbelievable talent in USAC, as was Tony Stewart. Gordon surprised me going to NASCAR, always figured he would be in CART or IRL for a career. I would think he would have been quite successful in either of those, too.

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Originally posted by firebird45331
Jeff Gordon's talent lies in his car builders and crew. He's mediocre driver with an incredible team and builder

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:whacked: :whacked:

Firebird, the best thing you can hope for here is that this thread gets lost and no one can find it, because in 5 years when Jeff Gordon is touted to be the best stockcar driver that ever lived, You will be able to say,WHO ME! I didn't say that. NOT ME!!!

Keep in mind ,I have been a fan, crew member, driver,car owner over the last 54 years. LT1S10 has a simular racing background.

I have never pulled for Jeff Gordon on even one lap and yet while I was routing aganist him he won 72 races in the past 11 years.No other driver has even come close and I dont have the
figures in front of me ,but I think I heard recently that all the other Hendrick's drivers put together dont have that many wins combined. And Rick Hendrick has had some very good race drivers over the years.

I would rather Jeff didn't pass Dale Sr.,Waldrip,Cale, Bobby Allison and David Pearson on the most wins list,but if he stays healthy it will happen in the next 5 years.

Richard Pettys record will proberly never be broken ,but in his 200 wins most of those races didnt have 5 cars capable of winning. Thats not the case today and Richards winning percentage was no where near as good as Jeffs.

Like I said, I have never been a Jeff Gordon fan,But I certainly respect him and am just amased at his accomplishments.

You might want to rethink this one , before it comes back to bite You. :LOL: :LOL:

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Originally posted by Dave Severson
There ya go, Mike. NASCAR fans are a bit on the fickle side, you can go from hero to zero and back again in the same season!!!!! Gordon was an unbelievable talent in USAC, as was Tony Stewart. Gordon surprised me going to NASCAR, always figured he would be in CART or IRL for a career. I would think he would have been quite successful in either of those, too.

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jeff would have done great anywhere he went. he drives smart. id love to see him try F-1 :cool:

Mike, did you catch the special on Speed Channel where he swapped cars with one of the F-1 guys and did a few laps on the road course at Indy??? Man, he looked like a natural in that thing!!! The F-1 guy didn't look quite as good in that overweight NASCAR sled!!!! But, you are absolutely correct. He would be successful in any type of racing, as would many of the others in NASCAR. I also watched Gordon in a Silver Crown car at Terra Haute, In. once. Talk about somebody who could "feel" a car!! The think was a tank in practice, then he came out set 3rd fast time, won his heat and the main. Was at IRP in Indy the next night and watched him set fast time (lap record), win his heat, and the main. Then on Sunay he won the main in a late model at some other track in Indiana... Yup, I am a bit partial to open wheel skinners, could you tell ????????????

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Originally posted by Dave Severson
Mike, did you catch the special on Speed Channel where he swapped cars with one of the F-1 guys and did a few laps on the road course at Indy??? Man, he looked like a natural in that thing!!! The F-1 guy didn't look quite as good in that overweight NASCAR sled!!!! But, you are absolutely correct. He would be successful in any type of racing, as would many of the others in NASCAR. I also watched Gordon in a Silver Crown car at Terra Haute, In. once. Talk about somebody who could "feel" a car!! The think was a tank in practice, then he came out set 3rd fast time, won his heat and the main. Was at IRP in Indy the next night and watched him set fast time (lap record), win his heat, and the main. Then on Sunay he won the main in a late model at some other track in Indiana... Yup, I am a bit partial to open wheel skinners, could you tell ????????????

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never was around the open wheels, i drove a modified for awhile and some late model on dirt yrs ago. did ok but it didnt pay the bills. never been to a open wheel race, but i like to watch those SILVER CROWNS cars. i think if you can win in the SILVER CROWN cars you can win in most anything. :cool:

Yup, way kewl cars. I raced carts, super mods, and sprints on the dirt. Gave it up in '78. My last wreck was a horrendous one. (cleared the catch fence, took down the wires for the lights!!) Broke damn near everything on my body. Went drag racing afterwards. Gave that up a few years back. My "final lap" will be at Bonneville, hopefully another year or two if I can line up a bit more sponsorship money. I did hot lap one of those IMCA late models one night a few years back. Way kewl ride!!!! Racing never paid all the bills, had some good sponsors and it sure was fun!!!!!

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Originally posted by firebird45331
as much as I believe Jimmy Johnson is a little turd of a clone of gordon. I believe he has more potential than Jeff.

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You said "turd"! Hee Hee

I agree that Paint Boy has talent, but I just plain don't like him or "turd".

to be in nextel you have to be a good driver, there's no doubt about that. But in the whole field I don't consider him the best driver out there. The reason I make such a big deal of IROC is because it's more of a level field. I admit the drivers I do like aren't the best nor will they ever be. I like who they are how they react. I liked Johny Benson. He's a good guy, raced clean, and was humbled by the fact that he had the opportunity to race. I liked Rusty Wallace, again by far from the best driver out there. I believe his biggest problem was that racing wasn't his passion he admitted that he'd rather be racing airplanes. I like Mark Martin. I think he's one of the greatest talents who ever lived, but I think the years and alcohol abuse stunted his potential. I never really cared much for Dale Sr. until after his death then I came to respect him for who he was and not what he did on the track. And last but not least Richard Petty. He's the absolute best there ever was. In the early days of Gordon's nascar career he probably was one of the best out there. And like I said in an earlier post he has done good for the sport. I won't deny that, but when the talent of the other drivers comes up to par he's still a mediocre driver. And there's no convincing me otherwise.

I raced a lot of yrs thinking like mark marten, if I couldn't pass a car without knocking him out of the way, then i wouldn't pass him. that don't get you nothing, but a bunch of seconds place finishes. to be the best you need to have the killer instinct, that's where dale sr. came into the pic. no heart at all. you are judging someone's ability to drive a race care with how much you like them and that don't have nothing to do with it. :HMMM:

but gordon would be the first one to cry and whine when it happens to him. I don't like seeing someone only being able to pass a car by hitting him. I think it's cheap

Bump drafting and pounding somebody's corner is part of NASCAR. All the drivers have been known to do it. Gordon no more or no less than anyone else! The media shows you the hits they have on film, which is always on the top cars. There's plenty of bumping, banging, and pushing in the back where the camera never records it. If you are only going to cheer for the ones who never (intentionally or otherwise) bump anyone, who will definitely have a short list, most probably none at all. Having watched and participated in many more races than I have ever seen on the tube I will again say there is a lot going on that the tv cameras and the average fan never see.