Thread: Rebuild or crate?

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For the knowledge on this site, this will probably be a dufus question, but I'll chance it.

I have a 350, 4-bolt, stock bore, 268 Comp cam, 650cfm Holley, dual plane intake, stock heads except for roller-tip rockers and a crank kit. One cylinder (#1) has a bad ring groove and fouls plugs.
Other than that it runs great. Talking to a machine shop, they want close to 2K to rebuild.

A new 350 crate around here can be had for $1500.

I would chance a re-bore, but have never rebuilt an engine and I don't want to chance screwing it up.

Not looking for high performance, just a little "lope" and dependability (and some economy.....yeah, I know, a hot-rodder doesn't look for economy ).

A dumb question?

Find another machine shop.

Originally posted by jramshu
Find another machine shop.

Yeah, I know, but this is the ONE all the local rodders swear by.

What about honing and oversize rings? A no-no? That has been suggested to me.

I own a Auto repair shop, and for me the time & cost involved to rebuild my 350 for the coupe just did'nt make sense when I could buy a crate over the counter for $1235 bucks.....

Originally posted by '32 skidoo
Yeah, I know, but this is the ONE all the local rodders swear by.

What about honing and oversize rings? A no-no? That has been suggested to me.

Waste of time & money !!!!!

The crate motor probably also comes with a warranty. If you go with the crate you will have other components from your existing 350 that you can sell and further reduce the cost. Unless there is a core charge, but even then you may decide to pay the core and then sell your parts.

Pat

Nothing like common sense. Thanks.

Well this is a tough call because if you want "lope" and economy that probably means a change to an OD trans or 4-speed manual with an OD 4th gear. As stated you are used to a mildly rodded engine and probably would want to change a crate engine so you need to realize the warranty of a crate engine will be void if you change the cam. So you could get a crate engine and forget the warranty when you change the cam but still know the internals are new. Maybe that is the easiest thing to do. One thing not mentioned above is that you may not know how deep the cylinder scratch is until you pull out the piston. I have an old flathead block which has a pin-score which may be 1/8" deep so you would need to take the engine apart and evaluate the damage. Then maybe you could SLEEVE that cylinder bore and reassemble the engine, maybe with just new rings and a cleanup of the valves. Depending on who does the labor on the engine this might be cheaper than a crate engine. Check around with some other machine shops for a quote on sleeving one cylinder; if the heads have been rebuilt recently maybe you could sleeve the block and reassemble the engine for less than a crate engine but this is a case where you have to really be shrewd with the machine shop. Of course it would be relatively easy to replace the rod and main bearings as well as the timing chain at the same time and maybe you can do all that under $1000 dpending on the shop. I was able to find a reasonable machinist at Joe's Machine in Ashland Va and Joe was one of the more reasonable people I have run into in the auto business, but I went for a low cost rebuild of a '76 Corvette 350 and it turned out about the same cost as a crate motor except that I was able to choose the cam I wanted.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I rebuilt a mild 350 & it ended up costing more than a new GM crate motor. Machine work & parts are too expensive to compete with crate motors IMHO.

Prices vary from area to area. As an example, around here a quality shop will build a mild 350, cam of choice, three angle valve job, the usual machining, for around $1800, (on your good core) so assuming that's comparable to what you asked your local shop for, the $2k isn't out of line. The basic GM crate motor (that's the one usually quoted for near $1500) is lower performance than it sounds like you have in mind. You'll only get some lope if you cam it, so you'll have to factor that cost in as well. And you'll still have only a modest engine. As for "find another machine shop" it comes down to apples compared to apples. One thing I used to tell my customers who objected to price was "you can always have it done wrong for less".

Just as the pros above have noted, it costs as much, or more, to custom build an engine as it does to buy a decent quality crate motor. That's why they've become so popular in the last couple decades. If you have specific needs, or if you have access to the machining equipment, and the skill to do it yourself, along with the ability to buy parts wholesale, then custom built is a better choice. For a basic cruiser, crates are hard to beat. Especially when you figure you can find some "smart" guy who thinks he can redo your engine on the cheap and he'll pay you a couple to a few hundred (depending on the market in your area) for your cast off.

Thanks. I hate to get rid of the engine, but what you all (actually, ya'll) are saying is the most practical and safest, at least in my case.

Originally posted by Bob Parmenter As for "find another machine shop" it comes down to apples compared to apples. One thing I used to tell my customers who objected to price was "you can always have it done wrong for less".

You are right there. I paid $800 for a long block, which brought me here. The cam timing was set wrong. So it was more headache than it was worth. The rest of the engine is fine, but a hairpulling experiance.

I'm gonna toss another monkey wrench in here, if you all don't mind.

I have had two "not-so-good" experiences with GM crate motors, that were supposed to be "plug 'em in and run 'em" setups. the first one was by far the worst, but I wound up with a very good engine, after I screwed up big time. I bought a "TargetMaster 350, in 1981, uncrated it and dressed it out to install. When I tried to put my flywheel onto the crank, I could not get the bolts to line up. So, instead of tearing all of the work I already had in it off, I just put it back on the stand, flipped it over and yanked the crank out, and took it - along with the flywheel, and the crank from my old 350 - back to the dealer where I'd gotten the engine. After a lot of discussing, and cussing, a Chevy Factory Rep who was visiting on the premises, got involved, and they found that they had a whole truckload of engines with cranks that were drilled wrong. Chevy wound up giving me a new crank - the only one that they had in stock at the dealer at the time was a forged item, - and forgave me for not just bringing the whole thing back. Now, it gets better. I was getting ready to put the new crank in, and noticed some grit of some sort laying in one of the bearings; turned out to be casting sand. Investigation showed that the engine was full of the stuff - I collected almost a quart of it off of the driveway, after the cleanup was done. Well, long story-short, I tore the whole thing down, popped the soft plugs and galley plugs, washed and cleaned it up, had the rotating assembly balanced, cammed it, and basically blueprinted it. Got a real good engine out of it. If I'd been able to just stuff it and run it, it would have eaten itself alive.

The other incident was a friends big block crate engine that would not balance. It was a 454, and should have been a slam dunk replacement, but on start up, we thought it was going to vibrate itself to pieces. Replaced balancer and flywheel to no avail, and finally wound up giving it back to Chevy in exchange for a new one; it (the new one) worked just fine.

So now, I am quite cautious, and a bit skeptical, about crate motors. My preference leans toward a custom build, no matter how pricey (within reason, of course).

I was thinking about my terminology "ring groove" this weekend, before I saw your questions about it. My terminology may have been off. What I was referring to is the piston ridge (not even sure of that term) at the top of the cylinder..... from wear. It is far greater on this cylinder than any of the others. I haven't measured it because of lack of a decent set of calipers. I have pulled the heads off. This cylinder is also much more sootier and dirtier than the others. I am also basing my statement that it is a stock bore because of the pistons having no .010, .020, etc stamped in the face.